No stations between Stockport & Navigation Road: could this change?

[Cletus]

Although not being a local, I travelled this line a number of times and have often wondered why there are no intermediate stations.

It is a fairly long stretch of railway without a station through a fairly residential area.

I'm assuming that there were stations on the line at some point? If so, are there any re-openings suggested?

 

[snowball]

At one time there were stations at Cheadle, Northenden and Baguley. I think Cheadle closed first, the others at around Beeching time. For years the line did not normally see passenger trains. Then in 1992 Metrolink took over the Altrincham-Manchester line, so trains from Chester, Northwich and Knutsford were rerouted via the line under discussion and Stockport to Manchester. The main route for trains from North Wales and Chester is via Warrington and Newton-le-Willows.

There is a current proposal for a station at Cheadle.

 

[daodao]

Although not being a local, I travelled this line a number of times and have often wondered why there are no intermediate stations.

It is a fairly long stretch of railway without a station through a fairly residential area.

I'm assuming that there were stations on the line at some point? If so, are there any re-openings suggested?

There were stations at Baguley and Northenden run by the CLC, with the one at Northenden also served by the LNWR. There was also a station at Cheadle east of Northenden Junction on the line to Stockport Edgeley, served by LNWR and closed to passengers on 1 January 1917; this is a separate station from the ex-CLC Cheadle (North) station, which closed to passengers on 30 November 1964. There are firm plans to re-open Cheadle [South] station as a single platform halt.

Funding for a new railway station at Cheadle approved

£13.9m package also includes funds for a new Eco-Business Park and new walking and cycling routes

www.stockport.gov.uk

Funding for a new railway station at Cheadle approved​

£13.9m package also includes funds for a new Eco-Business Park and new walking and cycling routes​

 

[plugwash]

My understanding is that prior to the metolink, the line wasn't used much if at all for passenger services. When the metrolink took over the main route from Manchester to Altrincham they still needed a rail route for the services coming from beyond Altrincham. Said trains were diverted to use the line via baugely with a section around navigation road being run as a single track metrolink line in parallel with a single train rail line.

There were proposals to re-open a station at Bagueley to provide an interchange with the metrolink airport line, but it doesn't look like anything ever came of them.

There are current proposals for a station at Cheadle.

 

[geoffk]

As well as single track on the section where Cheadle station is to be built, the line is also single from Skelton Jn to Navigation Road as Metrolink took over the second track on most of this section. The line is also used for freight, including loaded biomass trains from Liverpool to Drax which take a convoluted route to avoid the climb out of Manchester Vic - so capacity for new stations is limited.

 

[snowball]

The site of the former station known as Baguley is further west than the bridge crossing of the Metrolink airport line, so if an interchange station is ever built, it will not be a reopening of the old station, except in name. (Baguley stop on the Metrolink line is adjacent to the bridge.)

The single-track section near Cheadle dates from the construction of the M63 (now M60) and M56 motorways in the 1970s. Two new bridges carrying the line over a slip road and over the west side of "Roscoe's Roundabout" were built for single track only.

 

[Statto]

My understanding is that prior to the metolink, the line wasn't used much if at all for passenger services. When the metrolink took over the main route from Manchester to Altrincham they still needed a rail route for the services coming from beyond Altrincham. Said trains were diverted to use the line via baugely with a section around navigation road being run as a single track metrolink line in parallel with a single train rail line.

There were proposals to re-open a station at Bagueley to provide an interchange with the metrolink airport line, but it doesn't look like anything ever came of them.

There are current proposals for a station at Cheadle.

That is correct, before Metrolink, trains on the Mid Cheshire Line ran direct route from Altrincham to Manchester via Old Trafford, when Metrolink was up & trains on the Mid Cheshire Line was diverted via Stockport.

The line through Northenden was used by freight, but passenger trains diverted via the line through Northenden & Stockport once Metrolink was up & running.

 

[plugwash]

As well as single track on the section where Cheadle station is to be built, the line is also single from Skelton Jn to Navigation Road

And it continues single track through Navigation road station itself before opening out to double track about 100 meters south of the station.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When the CLC stations were last open (1964), the service was Stockport Tiviot Dale to Warrington Central/Liverpool Central via Glazebrook.
There was no timetabled service from Stockport to Altrincham despite the significance of both places.
Portions of Midland and GC route expresses to Liverpool used to use this route before being mostly diverted via Manchester Central.
Until the LNWR line through Lymm closed in 1962 there was a passenger/mail train from Liverpool Lime St to York which ran via Warrington BQ LL and Stockport Edgeley but without stops on the CLC section.
The return working took another unusual route to Liverpool from Stalybridge via St Helens Shaw St.

There was also talk of building a new Baguley station at the point where Metrolink crosses the line.
Northenden used to be the home of Edward Watkin, the influential chairman of many of the Victorian railways including the MS&L/GC.

 

[daodao]

There was no timetabled service from Stockport to Altrincham despite the significance of both places.

The LNWR ran regular services from Stockport (Edgeley) to Broadheath, at least up to Devcember 1916.

The CLC ran services from Stockport (Tiviot Dale) to Altrincham, at least until the 1930s, latterly using Sentinel steam railcars.

 

[2192]

There were stations at Baguley and Northenden run by the CLC, with the one at Northenden also served by the LNWR. There was also a station at Cheadle east of Northenden Junction on the line to Stockport Edgeley, served by LNWR and closed to passengers on 1 January 1917; this is a separate station from the ex-CLC Cheadle (North) station, which closed to passengers on 30 November 1964. There are firm plans to re-open Cheadle [South] station as a single platform halt.

Funding for a new railway station at Cheadle approved

£13.9m package also includes funds for a new Eco-Business Park and new walking and cycling routes

www.stockport.gov.uk

Presumably the new Cheadle station will be on the same site as the old one, on the west side of Manchester Road, close to its junction with High Street and Stockport Road, according to my 1966 AtoZ. (The CLC station was also on Manchester Road, about half a mile further north.)

Who will use the new station? I should have thought folk wanting Manchester would have found Gatley had a better service, and folk wanting Stockport are surely better served by buses. It is of course suitable for folk wanting Altringham and places further west.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Baguley, Northenden and Cheadle (North) railway stations all closed end November 1964.

Think I'm right in saying that Chester -> Manchester Piccadilly passenger trains off the Mid Cheshire line were subsequently diverted to run via Northenden / Stockport a few years before the Altrincham line was converted to Metrolink in 1992, very possibly from May 1989 onwards (SuX).

 

[jfollows]

Baguley, Northenden and Cheadle (North) railway stations all closed end November 1964.

Think I'm right in saying that Chester -> Manchester Piccadilly passenger trains off the Mid Cheshire line were subsequently diverted to run via Northenden / Stockport a few years before the Altrincham line was converted to Metrolink in 1992, very possibly from May 1989 onwards (SuX).

I think you're right; I have working timetables for 1988 in which the Chester services went via Sale and for 1990 in which they went via Stockport, although the EMU service Altrincham-Crewe still ran in 1990 as you say.

 

[daodao]

Presumably the new Cheadle station will be on the same site as the old one, on the west side of Manchester Road, close to its junction with High Street and Stockport Road, according to my 1966 AtoZ. (The CLC station was also on Manchester Road, about half a mile further north.)

Who will use the new station? I should have thought folk wanting Manchester would have found Gatley had a better service, and folk wanting Stockport are surely better served by buses. It is of course suitable for folk wanting Altringham and places further west.

The bus sevice from Cheadle to Manchester has deteriorated in recent years, particularly since the withdrawal of the faster direct service 130 (formerly North West Road Car Company route 29) via Kingsway and Anson Road, leaving just service 42B/42C which runs half-hourly (hourly Sundays, no late evening service) via Wilmslow Road.

 

[Gloster]

Brown’s Liverpool & Manchester Railway Atlas gives Cheadle as closing 01-01-1917, and Northenden and Baguley on 30-11-1964. It also shows proposed new stations at Adswood, Cheadle (former station), Gatley North, Baguley (new site) and Timperley East.

 

[Cletus]

Thanks for the replies. Most informative.

 

[Rail Quest]

Bit into the speculative category here but as a frequent user of the line myself, I'm wondering if capacity may have contributed to the lack of rebuilding any of the former stations sooner if at all.

My understanding is Cheadle station will be on the single track section East of Northenden. Whilst the line isnt the busiest in the world, the services I get are frequently held at the single line section at Nav rd. and I can imagine perhaps a higher risk of that happening with the other single line section with more station calling points.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Brown’s Liverpool & Manchester Railway Atlas gives Cheadle as closing 01-01-1917, and Northenden and Baguley on 30-11-1964.

You're right. My mistake. Cheadle once had two stations. The "other" Cheadle station (i.e. the CLC one which closed end November 1964) was on the line to Stockport Tiviot Dale and not the line to Stockport (Edgeley).

 

[Rail Ranger]

Just to confirm that the Monday to Saturday CLC line Chester to Manchester passenger service was diverted via Stockport in May 1989 as part of the Windsor Link timetable. The Sunday service was diverted as from May 1990. Conflicts on the Deansgate Junction to Navigation Road single line are much less common since the start of the December 2022 timetable because Chester trains now leave Piccadilly at 10 past the hour rather than 39 past so they no longer pass each other in the Deansgate Junction area.

 

[Chester1]

Bit into the speculative category here but as a frequent user of the line myself, I'm wondering if capacity may have contributed to the lack of rebuilding any of the former stations sooner if at all.

My understanding is Cheadle station will be on the single track section East of Northenden. Whilst the line isnt the busiest in the world, the services I get are frequently held at the single line section at Nav rd. and I can imagine perhaps a higher risk of that happening with the other single line section with more station calling points.

The single section near Cheadle could be reduced but in previous threads other members have said it would need to wait until Stockport is eventually resignalled. Any significant increase in capacity will have to wait until HS2 is completed. I think Altrincham to Piccadilly via Stockport could support demand for 4tph with three or four new stations. There are insufficient paths between Slade Lane and Piccadilly for additional frequent mid Cheshire line services.

 

[edwin_m]

The single section near Cheadle could be reduced but in previous threads other members have said it would need to wait until Stockport is eventually resignalled. Any significant increase in capacity will have to wait until HS2 is completed. I think Altrincham to Piccadilly via Stockport could support demand for 4tph with three or four new stations. There are insufficient paths between Slade Lane and Piccadilly for additional frequent mid Cheshire line services.

I imagine something like this would need the single line bridges (mentioned above) duplicating or replacing, which is going to be difficult.

 

[Rail Ranger]

There is scope for extending the double track at each end, particularly at the Stockport end without replacing the bridges but replacing the bridges would be a better solution which would enable double track to be restored throughout.

 

[Burton Road]

TfGM stated in their Prospectus for Rail that they'd either like to open Baguley and Cheadle as heavy rail stations on the existing line, or those stations plus Adswood, Gatley North and Timperley East as Metro/Tram-train stations.

 

[Chester1]

TfGM stated in their Prospectus for Rail that they'd either like to open Baguley and Cheadle as heavy rail stations on the existing line, or those stations plus Adswood, Gatley North and Timperley East as Metro/Tram-train stations.

My preference would be tram train because it would enable a much higher frequency. A tram train could avoid the west coast main line stopping next to western side of Stockport railway station and run to Stockport's new bus station. The frequency of trains between Piccadilly and Stockport would enable very fast changes. Terminating Mid Cheshire line services at Altrincham would be worth the disadvantage to link up multiple places with the Airport and Stockport's long distance services.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

My preference would be tram train because it would enable a much higher frequency. A tram train could avoid the west coast main line stopping next to western side of Stockport railway station and run to Stockport's new bus station. The frequency of trains between Piccadilly and Stockport would enable very fast changes. Terminating Mid Cheshire line services at Altrincham would be worth the disadvantage to link up multiple places with the Airport and Stockport's long distance services.

Are you, as your name suggests, from Chester though? If so, at worst you'd lose your third and slowest direct link to Manchester, while the TfW and Leeds 195s continue to whizz you and your neighbours there, so it would likely seem very much worth the disadvantage to you, but I'd be interested to know what the locals of the intermediate stations such as Knutsford, etc. would say about that. It is, after all, their only service, and it's already down on the service it was once promised.

 

[daodao]

Are you, as your name suggests, from Chester though? If so, at worst you'd lose your third and slowest direct link to Manchester, while the TfW and Leeds 195s continue to whizz you and your neighbours there, so it would likely seem very much worth the disadvantage to you, but I'd be interested to know what the locals of the intermediate stations such as Knutsford, etc. would say about that. It is, after all, their only service, and it's already down on the service it was once promised.

It is also significantly worse than the service (in terms of both frequency and speed) from the peak hour service offered by CLC in 1910 from Northwich, Knutsford and Hale to Manchester Central. The through service to Manchester from the Mid Cheshire line needs to be retained. Adding too many stations between Stockport and Altrincham would be deleterious to through journey times.

 

[Burton Road]

It is also significantly worse than the service (in terms of both frequency and speed) from the peak hour service offered by CLC in 1910 from Northwich, Knutsford and Hale to Manchester Central. The through service to Manchester from the Mid Cheshire line needs to be retained. Adding too many stations between Stockport and Altrincham would be deleterious to through journey times.

Isn't the journey time already pretty similar via Stockport or via Metrolink anyway? If it gets any slower most people would change.

Reading between the lines of TfGM's 2040 strategy, what they seem to want is:

a) Tram-train Stockport to the Airport and possibly Timperley to the Airport serving the new stations
b) Tram-train to Hale and over a new route to Manchester Airport HS2 via Ashley (they've requested this alignment be protected in the HS2 Phase 2b bill)
c) Manchester Airport western link to Mobberley and beyond

The latter of these would vastly improve Manchester-Knutsford, Northwich journey times, although I can't believe it would be cost effective.

 

[Chester1]

Are you, as your name suggests, from Chester though? If so, at worst you'd lose your third and slowest direct link to Manchester, while the TfW and Leeds 195s continue to whizz you and your neighbours there, so it would likely seem very much worth the disadvantage to you, but I'd be interested to know what the locals of the intermediate stations such as Knutsford, etc. would say about that. It is, after all, their only service, and it's already down on the service it was once promised.

I lived in Chester when I joined the site. Unless your final destination is close to Piccadilly station changing at Altrincham will be similar or faster journey time.

It is also significantly worse than the service (in terms of both frequency and speed) from the peak hour service offered by CLC in 1910 from Northwich, Knutsford and Hale to Manchester Central. The through service to Manchester from the Mid Cheshire line needs to be retained. Adding too many stations between Stockport and Altrincham would be deleterious to through journey times.

The catchment area for tram train stops between Altrincham and Stockport is huge. Its not a significant disadvantage for people from Northwich, Knutsford and Hale to change at Altrincham for the benefit of adding other areas to rail network.

Isn't the journey time already pretty similar via Stockport or via Metrolink anyway? If it gets any slower most people would change.

Reading between the lines of TfGM's 2040 strategy, what they seem to want is:

a) Tram-train Stockport to the Airport and possibly Timperley to the Airport serving the new stations
b) Tram-train to Hale and over a new route to Manchester Airport HS2 via Ashley (they've requested this alignment be protected in the HS2 Phase 2b bill)
c) Manchester Airport western link to Mobberley and beyond

The latter of these would vastly improve Manchester-Knutsford, Northwich journey times, although I can't believe it would be cost effective.

Trains used to run Altrincham - Chester only on Sundays with people being expected to use Metrolink to reach Manchester. The main problem with this is cutting the link to Stockport not forcing a change to get to Manchester. There could be an Altrincham - Stockport tram train service, although at a lower frequency than either had to the airport.

I can't see the western link being revived unless HS2 Crewe to Manchester is dropped.

 

[daodao]

The catchment area for tram train stops between Altrincham and Stockport is huge. Its not a significant disadvantage for people from Northwich, Knutsford and Hale to change at Altrincham for the benefit of adding other areas to rail network.

Public transport demand for travel from Altrincham to Stockport and intermediate points in between is limited - all journeys on bus routes 370/371 that link Stockport and Altrincham are "provided with the financial support of Transport for Greater Manchester". The only significant demand for public transport in outer suburban Greater Manchester south of the River Mersey is for journeys to/from central Manchester, because parking is limited/difficult/expensive there. Baguley has a tram service and Gatley a train service, so there is little call for opening additional stations on this line other than the proposed one at Cheadle. Preserving a direct train link from Northwich/Knutsford to central Manchester is more important.

 

[Rail Quest]

Are you, as your name suggests, from Chester though? If so, at worst you'd lose your third and slowest direct link to Manchester, while the TfW and Leeds 195s continue to whizz you and your neighbours there, so it would likely seem very much worth the disadvantage to you, but I'd be interested to know what the locals of the intermediate stations such as Knutsford, etc. would say about that. It is, after all, their only service, and it's already down on the service it was once promised.

I live at one of the intermediate stations on the route - I'd be more than happy to change at Alty if fairs were reduced to get to alty. Currently - my station to Altrincham is the same price as my station to Piccadilly so it would cost me more to buy a Metrolink ticket for all zones. Putting this aside though, I agree with Chester1 above - changing for the Metrolink usually doesn't slow one's journey down.

My main concern is freight capacity on the route as a whole. A lot of freight uses the mid cheshire line and if it wasn't for the bottle neck at Nav Rd. I feel it would get a lot more use (IE moving all Hindlow/Tunstead to the south quarry flows to that route rather than half of them) - so what would be done about this if Alty to Stockport was to become part of the metrolink?