Edinburgh & the Lothians bus network speculations & ideas

[TheEastCoaster]

I would like to see a new route running along the coast, something like;

RIE > Wisp > Dunddingston Park > Brighton place, Portobello > Seafield Road > Salamander St > Commercial St > Starbank Rd. > West Granton Rd. > Cramon Village > Maybury Rd. > Gyle shopping centre

A lot of these sections are rural/light loadings, but it would likely be a faster way of getting around the

this would ideally match with a better 400, which cuts out Colinton Mains and travels along Redford Rd. to make one big orbital thingie.

I like it but honestly I would change it to run via Fort Kinnaird, Brunstane and Eastfield before connecting to Portobello if you want to get really rural!

If I was doing this I would maybe cut the 21's to run to Clovenstone all the time, and increase the 12 to match the connection with Broomhall and The Gyle.

Personally I would leave the 400 as it is, since that suggestion would cut Oxgangs and Colinton Mains from Wester Hailes and Fort Kinnaird, I would maybe increase the frequency of the 400 before tampering with the route, and timings too for connections with the 21 on both ends.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Replying to the post on the Lothian Group thread, thinking about future orders, could Lothian possibly go with Enviro 500EVs for capacity? I noticed that they have just launched in Hong Kong and they would be ideal for services that are busier.

A 12m tri-axle makes little sense being used in Edinburgh. Even comparing it against Lothian's standard double-deckers it makes little sense.

 

[stevenedin]

A 12m tri-axle makes little sense being used in Edinburgh even comparing it against lothians standard double-deckers it makes little sense.

It is still longer than any other electric double decker on the market. I think we will need something longer for when diesel buses are phased out.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

I was looking in the Service Updates section on the LB website, and apparently Service X27 is having a revised route in the Calderwood area.

My main question is:

What is the point of this?

(Image shows map of revised route)

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I was looking in the Service Updates section on the LB website, and apparently Service X27 is having a revised route in the Calderwood area.

My main question is:

What is the point of this?

(Image shows map of revised route)

Completion of further new houses would be the most logical answer.

 

[Stan Drews]

I was looking in the Service Updates section on the LB website, and apparently Service X27 is having a revised route in the Calderwood area.

My main question is:

What is the point of this?

(Image shows map of revised route)

I seem to recall this how the route was envisaged in the last registration, with a footnote to say that as those new roads weren’t complete at that time, the alternative route would be used. I assume the roads are now complete and safe for big bus use.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I was looking in the Service Updates section on the LB website, and apparently Service X27 is having a revised route in the Calderwood area.

My main question is:

What is the point of this?

(Image shows map of revised route)

To serve more new housing thats recently been completed along with the roads

 

[Ding Ding]

I seem to recall this how the route was envisaged in the last registration, with a footnote to say that as those new roads weren’t complete at that time, the alternative route would be used. I assume the roads are now complete and safe for big bus use.

You are 100% correct. The road surfacing was completed last week, and is now suitable for buses. It will now serve more houses, and is nearer to the social housing at the far end, saving them a walk from the main road, safer in the dark.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

Is there any likelihood that there will further route changes this year?

 

[stevenedin]

Is there any likelihood that there will further route changes this year?

I think that if anything, possibly the 22 could be altered and maybe something would be done with the 46 or 30. Otherwise it will depend on if Lothian win any council contracts or not and if they decide to make changes in West Lothian.

 

[Jordan Adam]

A 12m tri-axle makes little sense being used in Edinburgh. Even comparing it against Lothian's standard double-deckers it makes little sense.

Lothian mostly operate 11.5M dual-axle deckers. If they wish to operate equivalent size/capacity electric double deckers they're likely going to have no option but to go for a short tri-axle as, due to weight limitations, there's unlikely to be a dual-axle electric decker of that length anytime soon. I suspect it is for this reason also that ADL seem to be intending to offer the Enviro500EV to the UK market.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Lothian mostly operate 11.5M dual-axle deckers. If they wish to operate equivalent size/capacity electric double deckers they're likely going to have no option but to go for a short tri-axle as, due to weight limitations, there's unlikely to be a dual-axle electric decker of that length anytime soon. I suspect it is for this reason also that ADL seem to be intending to offer the Enviro500EV to the UK market.

Ah, so are the demonstrators (BLZ, Electroliner) reduced-length ones then?

 

[GusB]

Okay, after much footering around, the posts which were discussing the lengths of Lothian vehicles have been moved into the main Lothian thread.

Please remember that this thread was set up so that people could speculate about services changes, new routes etc. in the Lothians, mainly so that it wouldn't clog up the main thread. Do take care to make sure you're posting in the right place.
For events that are actually happening, please discuss them here:

Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

New thread to discuss the service bus operations of Lothian Buses and subsidiaries - continuation of this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lothian-buses-and-ecb-discussion.151391/

www.railforums.co.uk

Finally, if anyone realises that they've posted in the wrong thread and is requesting to have it moved, please use the report function, rather than trying to attract our attention within the thread - there's a chance it might get missed.

Thanks

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think that if anything, possibly the 22 could be altered and maybe something would be done with the 46 or 30. Otherwise it will depend on if Lothian win any council contracts or not and if they decide to make changes in West Lothian.

I think the 22 works as it currently is, as it stands it offers a direct link from Granton to Gyle/West Edinburgh.

The 46 needs some work to it being the only service Roswell has, unless the 31 gets extended to Roswell I would like to see a better evening service on this route with the Dalkeith Journeys extending to Royal Infirmary.

The 30 will no doubt get re-routed via the A1 to Queen Margaret so it'll be double decker, it's only a matter of time..

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I think the 22 works as it currently is, as it stands it offers a direct link from Granton to Gyle/West Edinburgh.

On paper it seems useful, but in reality the 22 is now mostly used from the Gyle to the City and from the City to Granton with very little through usage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2023 ==

The 46 needs some work to it being the only service Roswell has, unless the 31 gets extended to Roswell I would like to see a better evening service on this route with the Dalkeith Journeys extending to Royal Infirmary.

Step one for me has to be to improve the woefully inadequate evening and Sunday service. Ideally the 46/48 should be increased to every 20 minutes each - combined every 10 minutes. This would help the capacity issues for the 48 and then Evora’s would be ideal for these two routes in the long term to further increase the capacity. The downside is that the 46/48 are still suffering from the same old traffic problems in Musselburgh that the 30 did.

I should say I would only run the early morning/late evening 46’s to Fort Kinnaird. I feel the eastern section is fine as every 30 mins from the 48. At other times it should be the full route.

The 30 will no doubt get re-routed via the A1 to Queen Margaret so it'll be double decker, it's only a matter of time.

I completely agree. The 30 is now mostly a non stop fresh air bus between Newcraighall and the QMU so would be absolutely fine to run directly to there as a double decker.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

On paper it seems useful, but in reality the 22 is now mostly used from the Gyle to the City and from the City to Granton with very little through usage.

To be fair with the 19 as well, the city to Granton link is there. I guess that's why the 113 was cut back to Western General.

Step one for me has to be to improve the woefully inadequate evening and Sunday service. Ideally the 46/48 should be increased to every 20 minutes each - combined every 10 minutes. This would help the capacity issues for the 48 and then Evora’s would be ideal for these two routes in the long term to further increase the capacity. The downside is that the 46/48 are still suffering from the same old traffic problems in Musselburgh that the 30 did.

I should say I would only run the early morning/late evening 46’s to Fort Kinnaird. I feel the eastern section is fine as every 30 mins from the 48. At other times it should be the full route.

I could see Lothian doing that with the 46 in the long run as it is a pretty well used service. That or the 48 it could work either way.

I completely agree. The 30 is now mostly a non stop fresh air bus between Newcraighall and the QMU so would be absolutely fine to run directly to there as a double decker.

Another penny for a thought, if ECB ever decided to bring the 106 back to Fort Kinnaird would it be worth having it run via the A1 after QMU? I'm not sure how popular the service is now after the change and if the 108 has seen more demand.

 

[Dave2105]

To be fair with the 19 as well, the city to Granton link is there. I guess that's why the 113 was cut back to Western General.



I could see Lothian doing that with the 46 in the long run as it is a pretty well used service. That or the 48 it could work either way.



Another penny for a thought, if ECB ever decided to bring the 106 back to Fort Kinnaird would it be worth having it run via the A1 after QMU? I'm not sure how popular the service is now after the change and if the 108 has seen more demand.

Once the new road from Millerhill to Qmu/A1 Slip is built I suspect the 106 will serve the Royal Infirmary. The 33 could also be extended at that point to Qmu or Fort Kinnaird along same route.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Once the new road from Millerhill to Qmu/A1 Slip is built I suspect the 106 will serve the Royal Infirmary. The 33 could also be extended at that point to Qmu or Fort Kinnaird along same route.

I personally think the 33 would be more likely to end up at Old Craighall and Burgh Gate? I agree with 106 though, definitely in that direction. The 30 could certainly end up in the general Millerhill/Shawfair direction too alongside the 14 from the Greendykes side.

Come to think of it actually, isn’t there planned to be a road from Burgh Gate to the QMU eventually? Maybe the 33 could use that?

 

[InOban]

The new development at Old Craighall includes a P&R which presumably intended as a new bus terminus.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The following routes, unsurprisingly, now appearing as 'Variation' on the bus registrations site: 46, 34, 37 (X37), 45, 1, 5, 7, 19, 25, X26, 31, X33, 36, N14, N31, 44, N3, 4, 9, 14, 15, 22, 29, 30, 33, X44, N30, 35, 49, 48, 8, 11, 16, 26, x31, 47 (47B), 400 (N400), N37. September 10th is the date, as previously predicted given Lothian's previous intention to reintroduce peak 25 runs for the return of Uni.

Source: https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/bus/search/?text[search]=PM0000002&filter[trafficArea]=&filter[busRegStatus]=Variation&search=PM0000002&searchBy=&security=d84d2e7b7148337ca354630e8808139c-aa3d6b9716eb66b05155bd2f7e38c1c9

All most likely timetable changes. Nothing showing for East Coast Buses or Lothian Country yet (or at all).

 

[stevenedin]

The following routes, unsurprisingly, now appearing as 'Variation' on the bus registrations site: 46, 34, 37 (X37), 45, 1, 5, 7, 19, 25, X26, 31, X33, 36, N14, N31, 44, N3, 4, 9, 14, 15, 22, 29, 30, 33, X44, N30, 35, 49, 48, 8, 11, 16, 26, x31, 47 (47B), 400 (N400), N37. September 10th, as previously predicted given Lothian's previous intention to reintroduce peak 25 runs for the return of Uni.

Source: https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/bus/search/?text[search]=PM0000002&filter[trafficArea]=&filter[busRegStatus]=Variation&search=PM0000002&searchBy=&security=d84d2e7b7148337ca354630e8808139c-aa3d6b9716eb66b05155bd2f7e38c1c9

All most likely timetable changes. Nothing showing for East Coast Buses or Lothian Country yet (or at all).

Looks like timetable changes at this stage rather than route changes but here’s hoping for some improvements.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The whole point of an X13 is to replace the X44 in the east and extend it beyond Tranent so it would be more than the 113 which is already limited stop, speaking of which is an X13 was to come to fruition, would it make sense to revert the 113 to serve all stops?

It could be done differently by anyone. I would go the way that the N113 goes then from Ormiston follow the 113. This would be good as it would serve more houses, and it would also give Elphinstone Research Centre more buses, especially for going to Ormiston and Pencaitland.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It could be done differently by anyone. I would go the way that the N113 goes then from Ormiston follow the 113. This would be good as it would serve more houses, and it would also give Elphinstone Research Centre more buses, especially for going to Ormiston and Pencaitland.

I completely agree. You may as well replace the entirety of the X44 rather than just most of it.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I completely agree. You may as well replace the entirety of the X44 rather than just most of it.

That's exactly what would happen, then it would follow the N113 to Ormiston then follow the 113 until the terminus.

 

[Aaronb2601]

What is the likelihood of Whitburn getting a new bus service? Whether that be a completely new service or an existing service like the X27 being extended to serve Whitburn.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

That's exactly what would happen, then it would follow the N113 to Ormiston then follow the 113 until the terminus.

That's what I had in mind for the X13, it's a no brainer idea and I can only hope ECB will follow through with it.

What is the likelihood of Whitburn getting a new bus service? Whether that be a completely new service or an existing service like the X27 being extended to serve Whitburn.

I would like to see the X27 return to its previous route prior to November, or at best an extension via the 281 route!

Maybe LCB could extend the X18 to Fauldhouse? I'm assuming since Whitburn is now in Zone C for LCB it shares the same zone as Fauldhouse, could be good value.

 

[Aaronb2601]

I would like to see the X27 return to its previous route prior to November, or at best an extension via the 281 route!

Maybe LCB could extend the X18 to Fauldhouse? I'm assuming since Whitburn is now in Zone C for LCB it shares the same zone as Fauldhouse, could be good value.

It would be good if they extended the X27 or perhaps reinstated the 281 as currently the only bus that goes from Whitburn to Livingston is the McGill’s 23 and it’s not always the most reliable.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It would be good if they extended the X27 or perhaps reinstated the 281 as currently the only bus that goes from Whitburn to Livingston is the McGill’s 23 and it’s not always the most reliable.

Guess we'll watch this space! Honestly I see the X27 returning to Whitburn before the 281, the 280 was pretty popular prior to the withdrawal but I don't see that service returning anytime soon either.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2023 ==

Maybe the X17 could make a resurface, even as far as Livingston?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Guess we'll watch this space! Honestly I see the X27 returning to Whitburn before the 281, the 280 was pretty popular prior to the withdrawal but I don't see that service returning anytime soon either.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2023 ==

Maybe the X17 could make a resurface, even as far as Livingston?

If any route is going to return first I think it would be the 276, Loganlea (Or Western Inch) to the Gyle Centre, linking with the Service 20 for timings or something, that would be a good money maker and would introduce more links for West Lothian. Lothian do have to expand the network soon if they are going to return to West Lothian as a strong operator (I am aware that the X18, X27 and X28 exist, but that's practically 2 routes). If that route was to be reintroduced, it would probably be during the same service changes as the 20 going back to Lothian if it happened.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2023 ==

841-846 are definitely doing something, remember how the West Lothian changes were slightly after the main Lothian ones after no West Lothian changes last time, well I think that may be on the cards again this time round, 841-846 could even be there as spare/duplicate services for the X27/28 when the Universities start up, although I doubt it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2023 ==

If we are going to be honest with ourselves, if a West Lothian network is to form again, it would most likely be centred around getting people to Livingston for further links, although the 276 is also a possibility. I think Lothian will look to form new routes not seen before if the time comes too.

 

[Aaronb2601]

I think Lothian will look to form new routes not seen before if the time comes too.

It would be interesting to see what potential new routes they come up with.