Virgin Voyagers

[Class172]

Just a quick question. I thought that all of virgin's voyagers had been lost to crosscountry (arriva) when the franchise was created; and that they had all been repainted into XC livery: so why today did I see a Class 220 in Virgin livery at Coventry? (I couldn't see the running number as it was obscured by a fence)

 

[142094]

Virgin still have some on the West Coast, although they are referred to as Super Voyagers. What is super about them I have no idea.

 

[387star]

Virgin Trains retained 221101-118/142-144 all of which are 5-car super voyagers/ The latter were 4-car but are now 5 and some were with XC before transferral to VT. They have refurbished a coach with very nice low capacity seating

 

[GNER 373]

They have repainted all of the class 220's into XC whereas Virgin still run class 221 'Super Voyagers'.

 

[WestCoast]

Virgin still have some on the West Coast, although they are referred to as Super Voyagers. What is super about them I have no idea.

SuperVoyagers tilt, Voyagers don't. So that makes them super

 

[Class172]

Oh I see, it's not often I go anywhere near the WCML so I'm not really an expert on Virgin

 

[GNER 373]

Yeah, you can tell them apart by looking at the bogies, the number of coaches (although as previously mentioned XC are now running 5 car Voyagers) and of course the number caked on the side, unless of course obscured by bloody fences!

 

[387star]

Why didn't Virgin (Bombardier) build a different more spacious body for the class 220 seeing as it was never intended to tilt?

I think I could put up with a voyager if it had longer carriages and was electric :P

 

[GNER 373]

Why didn't Virgin build a different more spacious body for the class 220 seeing as it was never intended to tilt?

Good question indeed!

 

[142094]

SuperVoyagers tilt, Voyagers don't. So that makes them super

They can tilt off to the scrapyard if they'd like. Horrible things.

 

[junglejames]

Why didn't Virgin (Bombardier) build a different more spacious body for the class 220 seeing as it was never intended to tilt?

I think I could put up with a voyager if it had longer carriages and was electric :P

Because its cheaper to use the same body. All in the name of cheapness me thinks.

 

[WestCoast]

They can tilt off to the scrapyard if they'd like. Horrible things.

I am indifferent to 221s but I could say the same about pacers...(well bounce to the scrapyard).

221s shouldn't be running on fully electrified routes either, but that's another moan which has been discussed before.

 

[387star]

Pacers are one train which surely won't be around for much longer Also shows that one thing has improved... we have never since made such an uncomfortable train.

 

[WestCoast]

Pacers are one train which surely won't be around for much longer

The way things are going, they'll be haunting Northern for some years to come. Although, I doubt they'll reach the life of the 220/221s...

 

[142094]

Comfort is like beauty - each seperate person will have their own ideas about it. I could happyily sit all day on a Pacer and would stand on a Voyager even if there were seats available (not that I'll be on a Voayger anytime soon I hope).

 

[WestCoast]

Comfort is like beauty - each seperate person will have their own ideas about it. I could happyily sit all day on a Pacer and would stand on a Voyager even if there were seats available (not that I'll be on a Voayger anytime soon I hope).

I don't hate pacers I just dread them each day on a packed morning run! I do prefer the ex-ATN refurbished units, which always evade me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The seats on the voyagers aren't that bad - more comfortable than a bus bench on an ex-FNW 142 surely?

 

[junglejames]

Pacers are one train which surely won't be around for much longer Also shows that one thing has improved... we have never since made such an uncomfortable train.

I disagree entirely. On the old bus type seats in the pacers. i went all the way from Carlisle to Lancaster via the Cumbrian Coast, quite happily.
On a Voyager and Pendo, 90mins and my back and backside are usually telling me its time to get off. On LMs 350s, its even less than that.

I can handle the noise of the pacers (crikey, are the voyagers much worse?!!!), and the bouncing is good fun. Its always the seats which do it for me.
So for me, yes we have made more uncomfortable trains since. OK, i may be in a minority of 1, but thats me!

They could do with more legroom though. But hey, thats the only thing.

 

[142094]

The seats on the voyagers aren't that bad - more comfortable than a bus bench on an ex-FNW 142 surely?

I don't mind the bus seats (sat on a quite a few of them when I was younger). Although I don't like the ex-Merseyrail ones purely for the fact that there is no legroom.

 

[WestCoast]

I am not trying to defend voyagers at all but those bus bench seats on pacers are terrible! Try sitting in the middle in between two large people!

The merseyrail ones are also bad but at least each person has a defined space which they shouldn't "spill out from".

 

[TomJ93]

I maintain that if the Voyagers were longer they'd be perfect.
A longer train would be able to provide more space for luggage
- reinstate a shop
-more seats
- ability to use the wires where available.
- proper 1st catering
if done rightly.

Though at the moment their strength is
-speed
-great windows
- attractive
- I find them comfortable

if anybody wants to scrap them go ahead! As long as you're willing to replace them with your own money I'm sure a 7 car Voyager would solve most of your complaints!

 

[WestCoast]

I find it funny how 222s don't attract the same kind of constant moaning and groaning as the voyagers. Essentially the same train, but with issues resolved.

 

[387star]

Gosh Virgin really did build the most loathed inter-city trains didn't they

 

[junglejames]

I maintain that if the Voyagers were longer they'd be perfect.
A longer train would be able to provide more space for luggage
- reinstate a shop
-more seats
- ability to use the wires where available.
- proper 1st catering
if done rightly.

Though at the moment their strength is
-speed
-great windows
- attractive
- I find them comfortable

if anybody wants to scrap them go ahead! As long as you're willing to replace them with your own money I'm sure a 7 car Voyager would solve most of your complaints!

I shall let you have those opinions!! Lets just say i find them too uncomfortable, and are overall horible inside. A 222 on the other hand, well thats very different, but still not perfect.

Also, considering the run the voyagers are on, they are too noisy and rattly.
In fact, considering the run they are on, i find them the worst newbuild we have had since privatisation. In fact, the worst for a good few years before that. If not in the history of Britains railways (I cant be sure of that final comment, but dont think im far off)

 

[WestCoast]

Gosh Virgin really did build the most loathed inter-city trains didn't they

Well Bombardier did, I know Virgin wanted the trains to be longer. I don't think Voyagers (or Pendos) are that loathed by the general public either, except when they can't get a seat on a Voyager.

 

[Class172]

I also like the way my one little question has erupted into a full blown argument between voyagers and pacers; and moans about Virgin. Some of you must have been bottleing this up for months waiting for the perfect opportunity to argue!

 

[junglejames]

I find it funny how 222s don't attract the same kind of constant moaning and groaning as the voyagers. Essentially the same train, but with issues resolved.

The changes they have made have made them a much better train. Nowhere near as cramped. Much better overhead rakes which you can fit more onto, and more comfortable seats. Still not right for long distance Intercity runs due to the noise and rattling, but a lot better.

 

[WestCoast]

I also like the way my one little question has erupted into a full blown argument between voyagers and pacers; and moans about Virgin. Some of you must have been bottleing this up for months waiting for the perfect opportunity to argue!

I reckon Voyagers and Pacers are the trains most likely to evoke strong opinions and a full and frank exchange of views (ARGUMENT!)

 

[junglejames]

Gosh Virgin really did build the most loathed inter-city trains didn't they

InterCity? I dont even accept them as Intercity trains.

 

[tbtc]

I also like the way my one little question has erupted into a full blown argument between voyagers and pacers; and moans about Virgin. Some of you must have been bottleing this up for months waiting for the perfect opportunity to argue!

These things don't wait for months to spill over into an argument, there's usually always one thread on here full of these arguments (though they usually start as a discussion about something else)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I maintain that if the Voyagers were longer they'd be perfect.....I'm sure a 7 car Voyager would solve most of your complaints!

Correct.

Its funny how the people who have a hatred of Voyagers for things like "windows not lining up with seats" never start threads slagging off other modern units. In fact, one of the chief anti-Voyager contributors to this thread has praised Turbostars as being one of the best modern units (yet has never mentioned the fact that windows and seats fail to align on 170s either)

Its like the fact that people suddenly find other things to slag off once they have one fault (e.g. the Voyagers get criticised for having "massive" toilets, but I've not see the same criticism of other units with disabled toilets - the difference being that these other units have more seats).

 

[387star]

I remember an article in a Rail magazine stating the rattles would be dealt with obviously not then. Can these not be cured and do the 180s also suffer from them ie this is a DMU issue?