Southern Daysave - what's the catch?

[Trainlog]

You can collect the tickets anywhere tbh. The Day save is probably one of the best tickets in the Southeast next to the London zones 1-6 ticket so i would highly recommend it despite the 3 day wait and online booking required for it.

 

[swt_passenger]

presumably the argument about not allowing *brand* specific pricing, could just as easily be used to justify the removal of 'thameslink only' pricing (very nice, especially for day trips brighton-london), as for being able to use GX.
Personally? I'd rather keep the thameslink only....!

The original TSGN franchise ITT did actually call for removal of Thameslink specific ticketing, but once GTR was in place they basically ignored the issue, apparently worried about the negative effects on users of the Thameslink priced flows.

 

[MrJeeves]

The original TSGN franchise ITT did actually call for removal of Thameslink specific ticketing, but once GTR was in place they basically ignored the issue, apparently worried about the negative effects on users of the Thameslink priced flows.

In which case they would have immediately looked at lowering the other flows to the Thameslink only prices... right? Right??

 

[swt_passenger]

In which case they would have immediately looked at lowering the other flows to the Thameslink only prices... right? Right??

...yes, of course. And then the alarm clock woke me up…

 

[paul1609]

The original TSGN franchise ITT did actually call for removal of Thameslink specific ticketing, but once GTR was in place they basically ignored the issue, apparently worried about the negative effects on users of the Thameslink priced flows.

Don't think that's quite right. The ITT required GTR to investigate options to remove the Thameslink specific ticketing which they did. I think there were 3 options presented to Dft. Dft have held the revenue risk since 2008 because of the risks of the Thameslink project. It has never been considered politically acceptable to remove the Thameslink fares because of the London Bridge timetable fiasco, DOO dispute and then COVID but that decision has 100% been by the Dft as GTR has always been a management contract.

 

[AY1975]

Rather oddly the brfares.com site, which is supposed to be updated as of today, gives the price of a Daysave as £19 when it is actually £23.50 at present. I presume £19 was its price a few years ago. The same site also gives the price of a group Daysave as £38 when it is actually £47.

Another confusing thing with the otherwise pretty good brfares.com site is that if you search for Daysave it still mentions the Daysaver Flexi, Daysave Peak and Daysave Weekly although it doesn't give prices for them. AFAIK all of those products were withdrawn a few years ago.

 

[Watershed]

Rather oddly the brfares.com site, which is supposed to be updated as of today, gives the price of a Daysave as £19 when it is actually £23.50 at present. I presume £19 was its price a few years ago. The same site also gives the price of a group Daysave as £38 when it is actually £47.

Another confusing thing with the otherwise pretty good brfares.com site is that if you search for Daysave it still mentions the Daysaver Flexi, Daysave Peak and Daysave Weekly although it doesn't give prices for them. AFAIK all of those products were withdrawn a few years ago.

BR Fares is simply reflecting what's in the fares data. However, the £19 DaySave and Flexi/Peak/Weekly options aren't sold anymore as the way that DaySaves are sold has changed.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Rather oddly the brfares.com site, which is supposed to be updated as of today, gives the price of a Daysave as £19 when it is actually £23.50 at present. I presume £19 was its price a few years ago. The same site also gives the price of a group Daysave as £38 when it is actually £47.

Another confusing thing with the otherwise pretty good brfares.com site is that if you search for Daysave it still mentions the Daysaver Flexi, Daysave Peak and Daysave Weekly although it doesn't give prices for them. AFAIK all of those products were withdrawn a few years ago.

BR Fares is simply reflecting what's in the fares data. However, the £19 DaySave and Flexi/Peak/Weekly options aren't sold anymore as the way that DaySaves are sold has changed.

The way that these fares are sold now is as returns* in the fares data - if you want to find these on BRFares, try searching from any Southern-served station to Any Southern Train (or use three-letter code QAS) in the fares finder.

*I think these are technically "non-London area Travelcards" (see page 22 of RDG's Ticket Print Format Specification v06-00 Guidance Notes) but I'll admit that I'm not entirely sure how DaySaves are stored in the fares data nowadays, although BRFares does display them as returns.

 

[infobleep]

They might, on the face of it, be expensive to buy but they last for many years and every TOC is likely to have a surplus of them these days due to having fewer ticket office windows.

Which means in theory more tourist information centres or even a one stop shop could have the machines and sell tickets.

 

[paul1609]

Which means in theory more tourist information centres or even a one stop shop could have the machines and sell tickets.

From the sales volumes that the tics make I think its unlikely they would be interested in anything more complicated than the current voucher books.

 

[Haywain]

Which means in theory more tourist information centres or even a one stop shop could have the machines and sell tickets.

No, it doesn't - they still need to be connected to an expensive ticket issuing system.

 

[infobleep]

No, it doesn't - they still need to be connected to an expensive ticket issuing system.

Fair enough. In some ways it might then seem surprising that some Tourist Information Centres still sell them, given such costs.

 

[Cletus]

Just noticed this tweet suggesting that the Daysave can be bought from a ticket office and at a reduced cost of £19.00 (from £23.50).

https://twitter.com/every_station/status/1687027207053414400

The Rover ticket they don’t want you to know about… They especially don’t want you to know that if you buy it at a ticket office it’s £4.50 cheaper than buying online.

 

[Gathursty]

Just noticed this tweet suggesting that the Daysave can be bought from a ticket office and at a reduced cost of £19.00 (from £23.50).

https://twitter.com/every_station/status/1687027207053414400

I do remember getting a ticket that I didn't think I'd be allowed to buy at a station hundreds of miles away from the ticket and wonder if Ulverston TO just issued the ticket regardless otherwise I've no idea what Every Station is on about.

 

[bakerstreet]

Just noticed this tweet suggesting that the Daysave can be bought from a ticket office and at a reduced cost of £19.00 (from £23.50).

https://twitter.com/every_station/status/1687027207053414400

Judging from the ticket it also looks like it doesn’t have to be from a Southern station, unless there are two Ulverston stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fairly sure I recall someone saying they show up on the Rovers and Rangers screen on Northern TVMs, unless they've been taken back off there.

 

[MrJeeves]

That's because they're technically not supposed to be issued as a rover/ranger... Someone will probably get in a bit of trouble for this.

This has been issued under an old, underpriced fare of a rover/ranger, but it should be issued as a "<station> to Any Southern train" flow instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's because they're technically not supposed to be issued as a rover/ranger... Someone will probably get in a bit of trouble for this.

This has been issued under an old, underpriced fare of a rover/ranger, but it should be issued as a "<station> to Any Southern train" flow instead.

That makes no real sense. I know Merseyrail did it so their TVMs (which didn't do Rovers) could issue their day saver tickets, but why not otherwise issue as the correct ticket type for that kind of ticket rather than bodging it as a single?

 

[MP393]

That's because they're technically not supposed to be issued as a rover/ranger... Someone will probably get in a bit of trouble for this.

This has been issued under an old, underpriced fare of a rover/ranger, but it should be issued as a "<station> to Any Southern train" flow instead.

Can’t imagine anybody being in trouble. I find it very unlikely the unsuspecting member of staff in Ulverston TO knew this when asked to sell it. It shows up under Rovers & Rangers on my TOCs ticket machines to sell as a conductor, appears to the naked eye no different to any other rover & ranger throughout the country. Obviously this isn’t the case but that’s how it shows up on retail systems.

 

[MrJeeves]

That makes no real sense. I know Merseyrail did it so their TVMs (which didn't do Rovers) could issue their day saver tickets, but why not otherwise issue as the correct ticket type for that kind of ticket rather than bodging it as a single?

Maybe DaySave predates rover/ranger TOD for GTR's (or then-Southern's) TVMs, too? Either way, there's no real reason it can't be a rover/ranger now, and the 3-day advance restriction doesn't need to exist either anymore.

Can’t imagine anybody being in trouble. I find it very unlikely the unsuspecting member of staff in Ulverston TO knew this when asked to sell it. It shows up under Rovers & Rangers on my TOCs ticket machines to sell as a conductor, appears to the naked eye no different to any other rover & ranger throughout the country. Obviously this isn’t the case but that’s how it shows up on retail systems.

I more meant someone at GTR might. :P

 

[MP393]

Maybe DaySave predates rover/ranger TOD for GTR's (or then-Southern's) TVMs, too? Either way, there's no real reason it can't be a rover/ranger now, and the 3-day advance restriction doesn't need to exist either anymore.


I more meant someone at GTR might. :P

Ah apologies. I took it as the member of staff who sold it might!

I imagine it’ll definitely be taken away fairly soon if anything, like most things fare related which gets highlighted on social media/forums!

 

[Jan Mayen]

Perhaps Southern feel it's more the 3 day in advance restriction that needs to be kept, otherwise it effectively becomes the maximum off-peak price.

 

[Kite159]

Perhaps Southern feel it's more the 3 day in advance restriction that needs to be kept, otherwise it effectively becomes the maximum off-peak price.

Although it wouldn't be the first time a day ranger can be cheaper than a point to point ticket.

Burton on Trent to Sheffield and I think Crewe to Rugby

 

[CyrusWuff]

That's because they're technically not supposed to be issued as a rover/ranger... Someone will probably get in a bit of trouble for this.

This has been issued under an old, underpriced fare of a rover/ranger, but it should be issued as a "<station> to Any Southern train" flow instead.

I'm sure it will come as no surprise to learn that GTR have now "fixed" this.

 

[AY1975]

I'm sure it will come as no surprise to learn that GTR have now "fixed" this.

Do you mean that GTR has actually stopped the Southern DaySave from being sold through other operators' ticket offices or machines, or just stopped it from being sold for a cheaper price?

 

[paul1609]

Do you mean that GTR has actually stopped the Southern DaySave from being sold through other operators' ticket offices or machines, or just stopped it from being sold for a cheaper price?

It's always been an online only product I think. It is advertised as only available for collection from Southern TVMs because in the past some other TOCs TVMs couldn't print it correctly.

 

[RJ]

I'm sure it will come as no surprise to learn that GTR have now "fixed" this.

I imagine it’s very easy to change the fulfilment methods and suppress the NLCs that can issue it.

The Twitter account holder achieved what they wanted - clout for publicising it and getting it removed quickly so it’s a win for them. But perhaps not for followers who’ll turn up at ticket offices to find it’s not an option and they can’t buy it online for immediate travel either!

Other TOCs will likely follow suit with tightening up the sales locations of their promotional rover and ranger products given the noise made about buying out of area.

If the intention was to actually help people, it would be privately contacting people it would benefit and advising them to be discreet about it!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Do you mean that GTR has actually stopped the Southern DaySave from being sold through other operators' ticket offices or machines, or just stopped it from being sold for a cheaper price?

The former, because changing the price of the Ranger version was clearly too sensible(!)

That said, the Southern website only advertises it as being available for purchase directly from them for collection from a Southern TVM or postal fulfillment...but then they would say that.

 

[OscarH]

I imagine it’s very easy to change the fulfilment methods and suppress the NLCs that can issue it.

Not really by NLC, but it is easy to change fulfilment method and channels (booking office/TVM/website etc), and that can be done per TOC/independent retailers (as a group, unlike TOCs they can't be separated)

(the above is very different when reservations apply because the reservation system can be abused to do lots of odd things)

 

[Haywain]

Not really by NLC, but it is easy to change fulfilment method and channels (booking office/TVM/website etc), and that can be done per TOC/independent retailers (as a group, unlike TOCs they can't be separated)

(the above is very different when reservations apply because the reservation system can be abused to do lots of odd things)

The problem wasn't about fulfilment method but the sales channel. As I recall, TVM is a sales channel in it's own right so they simply had to disable that sales channel for Daysave.