• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,910
I presume that for the Octopus tariff to makes sense for your EV to charge at that sort of rates you must heat your home with fossil fuels?
I have driven a Tesla Model S from Exel Centre in Docklands to the lake district basically because my brothers employer needed to borrow my Hilux. Technology wise its an impressive concept but the build quality was on a par with a Reliant Robin and not something Id touch with a barge pole secondhand Im afraid.
The standard range MG4 had a motorway range of about 185 miles in my test. From home going north I was looking for chargers by about Grantham. It couldn't also do a return trip to Portsmouth. Ive not had a long range on test but the same dealer I got the SE from reckons its good for about 230 miles because with the bigger battery there's also a bigger motor, the price of the LR models was about £32k when I enquired. To be honest for that sort of money Id want a absolute minimum range of 250 miles. the ability to do a return trip to Pompey for an evening game without faffing around charging is an absolute must in my book.
Heating is oil presently. But I don't buy any peak rate electricity, basically, because I put 15kWh of battery storage in the loft which I charge overnight at the same time the card charge. When time comes to replace the heating system, it'll be engineered to run on cheap overnight power.
I did Norfolk to Preston in the M3, set off with 90% battery and arrived with 8%, bars majority of the 268 mile journey at 70mph.

Charging isn't really a faff. I've never had to stop to charge for more than 20 minutes, and my shortest stop was less than 2 minutes just to top up to ensure I got home. Most charge stops are between 12 and 18 minutes.
The MG4 LR is a decent car.
My China built M3 is fine in terms of build quality too. The US built cars were a bit rubbish.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

renegademaster

Established Member
Joined
22 Jun 2023
Messages
2,218
Location
Croydon
If the return journey is beyond the range if the car, I'm going to have charge. So I'd charge on the outbound to make sure I'm not stranded with low battery. And if it's that far I'd want to stop anyway.
It's not rocket science.
Hybrids are just a really crap EV (small battery) logging around a petrol engine, and then a petrol engine lugging around a battery pack.

My Tesla model 3 costs less than 2p a mile charged at home, and between 6p and 11p a mile if charged at a Tesla Supercharger.
Significantly cheaper than buying petrol.

You can buy used Tesla model S for £20k, some of which have free supercharging so potentially zero fuel costs.

MG4 you can buy brand new for £25k. Decent car with 250 mile range. Loads of options out there that are way cheaper than £40k
Hybrids are significantly more fuel efficient than the equivalent petrol, the price premium isn't as much an equivalent Full EV, best of both worlds, but off course it's not going to be perfect at everything. Plus parts for hybrids will still be made in 2030, but parts for full ICE will probally start to dwindle by then as their base models are banned.
 

NoRoute

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2020
Messages
504
Location
Midlands
Hybrids are significantly more fuel efficient than the equivalent petrol, the price premium isn't as much an equivalent Full EV, best of both worlds, but off course it's not going to be perfect at everything.
The issue is emissions, all of the hybrid's energy is coming from petrol either directly or indirectly, so at 60mpg that's ~175g of CO2 per mile. Whereas an EV getting 3 miles per kWh, on average grid electric is emitting around 60g of CO2 per mile, so around a third of the amount, substantially lower. A plug-in hybrid is somewhere between the two depending on the ratio of plug-in electric to hybrid driving.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,924
Location
UK
Right now, thanks to the cost of living crisis, I doubt people care about emissions and pollution - as we can see from the supposed victory now the PM has stated be will protect the motorist at all costs.

I wouldn't be surprised to see things like a promise to overturn low emission zones, or even to delay the ending of sales of ICE vehicles. The former is doable, but the industry will likely axe ICE vehicle manufacturing sooner than later regardless.

I wouldn't be surprised it the Tories also start to talk of more cuts to the railway and promise to build more roads instead.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
16,049
Location
St Albans
Right now, thanks to the cost of living crisis, I doubt people care about emissions and pollution - as we can see from the supposed victory now the PM has stated be will protect the motorist at all costs.
I wouldn't be surprised to see things like a promise to overturn low emission zones, or even to delay the ending of sales of ICE vehicles. The former is doable, but the industry will likely axe ICE vehicle manufacturing sooner than later regardless.

I don't think that overturning established pollution reduction measures will be that easy. The Law Court's have already demonstrated that the (London) mayor's responsibility for roads in the Capital includes the power to take measures in the interest of public health.
The motor industry is gearing up to the international move away from CO2 generating vehicles, and the UK Government's cynical attempt to weaponise the climate change denyers' clinging to their polluting habits will be ignored. The thinking majority of the driving population will ignore the confidence trick and make the transition to EVs as the manufacturers develop their ranges. For the petrolhead dinosaurs, those that refuse to change, will be paying back yard garages for keeping older less safe vehicles on the road in the style of Cuba. Just imagine the premium for insuring such an abomination!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,924
Location
UK
I don't think it will be easy either, or even possible, but it seems we now have it as an election issue and the car lobby will be very happy with news of Rishi being pro-car and reversing some moves to reduce car usage. Does anyone think Rishi actually cares either way? It's a soundbite, but a dangerous one because it makes it harder to make future changes or introduce them.

Plus now we have news that the boss of Stellantis and other 'experts' are spreading scare stories that the Chinese Government (the Telegraph making sure to remind us that it's a Communist country) will be able to switch off Chinese cars over the air and bring our roads to a standstill. They're highlighting their dominance in lithium mining and suggesting calls to ban their sales.

This is now as crazy as the calls (and eventual success) in banning Huawei.

Seems the threat of undercutting the incumbent car manufacturers is becoming too obvious now.
 

The Ham

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
12,036
Right now, thanks to the cost of living crisis, I doubt people care about emissions and pollution - as we can see from the supposed victory now the PM has stated be will protect the motorist at all costs.

I wouldn't be surprised to see things like a promise to overturn low emission zones, or even to delay the ending of sales of ICE vehicles. The former is doable, but the industry will likely axe ICE vehicle manufacturing sooner than later regardless.

I wouldn't be surprised it the Tories also start to talk of more cuts to the railway and promise to build more roads instead.

The problem is that by making motoring more attractive you make congestion more likely.

There's a reason when modelling traffic a car is counted as 1, a bus 2 but a bike is 0.5.

Ah, some might say, we should have fewer empty buses as they count as two cars.

The only issue with that is even an "empty" bus with just 8 people onboard tends to carry the same number of people as 5 cars.

Well what difference does a few cars less make?

It's currently the school summer holidays, most areas will see traffic problems almost disappear compare to term time. Guess how much traffic is typically associated with schools, some would guess that it was 30% they may guess as low as 20% or as high as 40%.

It's actually about 10%.

If that's the impact of a fall of 10% means for many almost no traffic (at least compared to ten times), then smaller reductions are going to see some benefits to .... car drivers!

Conversely those days where traffic is a nightmare for no apparent reason, chances are that was an increase of 1 or 2% (daily variation within seasons is typically 2%). As such even very small increases are going to make things worse for drivers.

As such; arguably if you like driving you want as many other people not driving as possible.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
I don't think that overturning established pollution reduction measures will be that easy. The Law Court's have already demonstrated that the (London) mayor's responsibility for roads in the Capital includes the power to take measures in the interest of public health.
The motor industry is gearing up to the international move away from CO2 generating vehicles, and the UK Government's cynical attempt to weaponise the climate change denyers' clinging to their polluting habits will be ignored. The thinking majority of the driving population will ignore the confidence trick and make the transition to EVs as the manufacturers develop their ranges. For the petrolhead dinosaurs, those that refuse to change, will be paying back yard garages for keeping older less safe vehicles on the road in the style of Cuba. Just imagine the premium for insuring such an abomination!
That's the Courts interpretation of existing law. Id say that the 2030 date is now unachievable or at best would be economic suicide so its almost certain that Government of whatever political persuasion will have to introduce fresh legislation delaying or possibly even abolishing the ban. The 2050 net zero time scale for electrical generation was likewise a brave best case scenario that's now impossible to achieve.
 

Noddy

Established Member
Joined
11 Oct 2014
Messages
1,654
Location
UK
That's the Courts interpretation of existing law. Id say that the 2030 date is now unachievable or at best would be economic suicide so its almost certain that Government of whatever political persuasion will have to introduce fresh legislation delaying or possibly even abolishing the ban.

Why do you think the 2030 date is unachievable? Given that we are five years behind Norway who are on target to meet their 2025 deadline, and appear to be well ahead of where they were in 2018.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
16,049
Location
St Albans
Why do you think the 2030 date is unachievable? Given that we are five years behind Norway who are on target to meet their 2025 deadline, and appear to be well ahead of where they were in 2018.
There's a lot of 'if I say it often enough it will become true' wishful thinking on current milestones.
 

The Ham

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
12,036
That's the Courts interpretation of existing law. Id say that the 2030 date is now unachievable or at best would be economic suicide so its almost certain that Government of whatever political persuasion will have to introduce fresh legislation delaying or possibly even abolishing the ban. The 2050 net zero time scale for electrical generation was likewise a brave best case scenario that's now impossible to achieve.

Let's say that we do miss our goal and the ban gets pushed back, how much further do you think it's likely to be pushed back in reality - bearing in mind that the EU the ban is 2035.

As such, even if the UK were to say petrol cars could be sold until (say) 2050, how long after 2035 would the car producers actually carry on making new petrol cars for the UK market?

Why do you think the 2030 date is unachievable? Given that we are five years behind Norway who are on target to meet their 2025 deadline, and appear to be well ahead of where they were in 2018.

Indeed, and whilst Norway's ahead of us, there's at least a few countries within the EU which also have a date of 2030.

It's possible that the date could slip, but it's unlikely to be by much even if politically the date does move.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
Let's say that we do miss our goal and the ban gets pushed back, how much further do you think it's likely to be pushed back in reality - bearing in mind that the EU the ban is 2035.

As such, even if the UK were to say petrol cars could be sold until (say) 2050, how long after 2035 would the car producers actually carry on making new petrol cars for the UK market?



Indeed, and whilst Norway's ahead of us, there's at least a few countries within the EU which also have a date of 2030.

It's possible that the date could slip, but it's unlikely to be by much even if politically the date does move.
My view is that the 2030 ban was hyperbole, never likely to be achieved. If we wanted to achieve it we needed an engineering led plan rather than political spin. If we had a realistic engineering led plan it would have been apparent up front just how expensive it would have been to achieve.
You can't upscale Norways achievements to a country the size of the UK, apart from anything else we don't have the natural resources (hydro electricity) for the policy to be the absolute no brainer it is in Norway.
Im not proposing an alternative timescale. I rather think that the motor manufacturers outside of Europe will continue to build cars for the UK market as long as we want to buy them.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,924
Location
UK
I rather think that the motor manufacturers outside of Europe will continue to build cars for the UK market as long as we want to buy them.

No they won't. We're pretty insignificant these days. There are people who think Apple will continue to make a special version of the iPhone when they switch to USB-C because, apparently, us Brits love Lightning cables too much to give them up. Newsflash: Apple will not be doing that.

Now ICE vehicles might still be manufactured for some countries for longer, but they probably won't be considered safe for our roads. Unless by then we've dropped all safety standards, which I suppose might happen in an area of 'we don't need experts' and 'we didn't have health and safety in my day and I'm still alive'.
 

Noddy

Established Member
Joined
11 Oct 2014
Messages
1,654
Location
UK
My view is that the 2030 ban was hyperbole, never likely to be achieved. If we wanted to achieve it we needed an engineering led plan rather than political spin. If we had a realistic engineering led plan it would have been apparent up front just how expensive it would have been to achieve.
You can't upscale Norways achievements to a country the size of the UK, apart from anything else we don't have the natural resources (hydro electricity) for the policy to be the absolute no brainer it is in Norway.
Im not proposing an alternative timescale. I rather think that the motor manufacturers outside of Europe will continue to build cars for the UK market as long as we want to buy them.

Why can’t you upscale Norway’s achievements (for a start we are smaller and warmer so have less of a geographical and cold temperature disadvantage)? The lack of hydro is irrelevant-we have have plenty of natural resources and a lack of overall power isn’t the issue. Issues around grid connections absolutely are a problem. But perhaps we could just learn from Norway’s successes and failures on that front?
 
Last edited:

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,910
No they won't. We're pretty insignificant these days. There are people who think Apple will continue to make a special version of the iPhone when they switch to USB-C because, apparently, us Brits love Lightning cables too much to give them up. Newsflash: Apple will not be doing that.

Now ICE vehicles might still be manufactured for some countries for longer, but they probably won't be considered safe for our roads. Unless by then we've dropped all safety standards, which I suppose might happen in an area of 'we don't need experts' and 'we didn't have health and safety in my day and I'm still alive'.
Indeed. Tesla have already dropped RHD verisons of the model S and X. Not worth the cost of tooling etc.
 

johncrossley

Established Member
Joined
30 Mar 2021
Messages
4,439
Location
London
Norway is fully interconnected to the international electricity market, including a direct cable to Scotland. So "their" electricity is Europe's electricity, and prices in Norway have soared as a result.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
Indeed. Tesla have already dropped RHD verisons of the model S and X. Not worth the cost of tooling etc.
Is that UK (EU spec) RHD or have Tesla also pulled out of Aus, Japan, Africa?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Norway is fully interconnected to the international electricity market, including a direct cable to Scotland. So "their" electricity is Europe's electricity, and prices in Norway have soared as a result.
That's not quite right. The cable goes to Blyth in Northumberland. The Scottish Interconnector was cancelled. The way the Interconnectors are paid for is when there a high price difference between the two markets. Norway has put a hold on further connections to Europe as it itself suffering from power shortages in some areas in Winter.
 
Last edited:

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,910
Is that UK (EU spec) RHD or have Tesla also pulled out of Aus, Japan, Africa?
All RHD of the S and X. People with reservations are being offered a refund, or LHD.
Model 3 and Y are more mass volume and continue to be available in RHD.
 

The Ham

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
12,036
My view is that the 2030 ban was hyperbole, never likely to be achieved. If we wanted to achieve it we needed an engineering led plan rather than political spin. If we had a realistic engineering led plan it would have been apparent up front just how expensive it would have been to achieve.
You can't upscale Norways achievements to a country the size of the UK, apart from anything else we don't have the natural resources (hydro electricity) for the policy to be the absolute no brainer it is in Norway.
Im not proposing an alternative timescale. I rather think that the motor manufacturers outside of Europe will continue to build cars for the UK market as long as we want to buy them.

Whilst I agree we needed a better plan overall (for example looking at ways of reducing energy consumption for the travel as well as shifting to electric - for example move away from flying and driving towards public transport and walking/cycling alongside bringing in electric cars), the 2030 target (then law) for no more new ICE cars isn't an outright impossible thing to aim for.

If there's issues there could even be scope to get around it for a short while (for example register a lot of new cars in 2029 and then sell them as second hand cars after the ban), however such loopholes are likely to be short lived (such as the preregistrated cars) or expensive (import secondhand cars from somewhere where you can still sell new ICE vehicles), so ultimately won't make much of a difference.

The UK may not have the hydro power that Norway has, but it has wind (and onshore could be creating more than it does), better solar, better opportunities for tidal and the like.
We can also use heat pumps more easily (although the uptake in Norway is higher, with 125,000 sold in 2021 Vs 55,000 in the UK, which given the size of the populations is significantly larger than that gap would imply).
 

Greybeard33

Established Member
Joined
18 Feb 2012
Messages
4,335
Location
Greater Manchester
The Chief Executive of Moto says that power supplies to service areas are not being uprated fast enough to keep up with the charger requirements.
Ken McMeikan, chief executive of Moto Hospitality, which operates motorway service stations across the UK, said the lack of power capacity for charge points is a "major problem" facing the electric vehicle industry.
McMeikan said: "There was a target set for the number of chargers by the end of 2023 that there would be at each motorway service area and that was a minimum of six.
"Sadly what there hasn't been is a target set for the power companies of the amount of power that's going to be required to operate those chargers and also a time commitment for the power companies of when that power would be made available ready for those chargers to start to operate.
"We have got a situation... where we've put sufficient chargers on four of our motorway service areas and the power required once the chargers were put in place is not available. So EV drivers are turning up to motorway services at four of our locations and there are chargers sitting there but no power."
McMeikan said that by 2030 around one in four or one in three motorists would be arriving at service stations in an electric vehicle - requiring the equivalent of "a quarter of all the power output from an average-sized nuclear power station."
He said with the scale of power required likely to be 12 times what it is today, he does not think there will be enough power for chargers by 2030.
"I don't believe the grid at the moment has the infrastructure and the power available at the time that it's going to be needed," McMeikan said.
"What the government needs to do is they need to set targets on a year by year basis, side by side, region by region, to ensure that there is sufficient power to be able to operate the chargers."
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,924
Location
UK
When I get an EV I hope that I never, ever, have to charge at a Moto or Welcome Break, or any other motorway service station. I've avoided getting petrol and diesel from one for the best part of 20 years...
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,910
When I get an EV I hope that I never, ever, have to charge at a Moto or Welcome Break, or any other motorway service station. I've avoided getting petrol and diesel from one for the best part of 20 years...
Yeah there's loads of better options not far from motorway junctions. MFG are my choice when I'm not in the Tesla - never known there not be a 150kW charger free, there's multiple food options, place to sit down and toilets.
 

renegademaster

Established Member
Joined
22 Jun 2023
Messages
2,218
Location
Croydon
A dignified climb down from the government when 2030, if the cheap cars EV evangelists promise don't come, or charging infrastructure is insufficient, would be exempting 50 or 100 g/km superminis.

I don't really understand the people saying that ICE will naturally go away before the ban , Toyota have stated they will make them to the bitter end, and their always be little Chinese manufacturers ready to fulfil demand if their is any demand existing.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
16,049
Location
St Albans
The Chief Executive of Moto says that power supplies to service areas are not being uprated fast enough to keep up with the charger requirements.
I heard that interview this morning and it was quite misleading but the interviewer didn't seem to challenge it:
his assertion about power demand was about peak demand, Nuclear power stations are about base load and their output is basically constant.​
the five main nuclear power stations average about 1.2GW each, so that would be equivalent to about 8000 cars all charging all day at 150kW continuous.​
there was no mention of power storage, either in grid connected facilities or local domestic reverse feeds.​
he was correct referring to (probably his) difficulties in getting DNO connections to his motorway service areas, somthing that is a concern for many areas.​
 

renegademaster

Established Member
Joined
22 Jun 2023
Messages
2,218
Location
Croydon
Whilst I agree we needed a better plan overall (for example looking at ways of reducing energy consumption for the travel as well as shifting to electric - for example move away from flying and driving towards public transport and walking/cycling alongside bringing in electric cars), the 2030 target (then law) for no more new ICE cars isn't an outright impossible thing to aim for.

If there's issues there could even be scope to get around it for a short while (for example register a lot of new cars in 2029 and then sell them as second hand cars after the ban), however such loopholes are likely to be short lived (such as the preregistrated cars) or expensive (import secondhand cars from somewhere where you can still sell new ICE vehicles), so ultimately won't make much of a difference.

The UK may not have the hydro power that Norway has, but it has wind (and onshore could be creating more than it does), better solar, better opportunities for tidal and the like.
We can also use heat pumps more easily (although the uptake in Norway is higher, with 125,000 sold in 2021 Vs 55,000 in the UK, which given the size of the populations is significantly larger than that gap would imply).
Norway also has about double our nominal GDP per Capita
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,924
Location
UK
A dignified climb down from the government when 2030, if the cheap cars EV evangelists promise don't come, or charging infrastructure is insufficient, would be exempting 50 or 100 g/km superminis.

The cheap cars will start to arrive between now and 2025. I think we'll see plenty of cars around £20k or below (inflation excepted). Second hand, you will be looking at £5-10k getting something that still has a decent battery and plenty of life left. There are now 10 year old EVs that look like bargains, and most EVs are packed with toys so even 2013 cars aren't devoid of features.

10 year old ICE cars aren't going to last forever either, and as more businesses grow to work on EVs I am sure we're going to see a solid market in establishments that can service and refurbish batteries so if your 10 year old EV needs a new battery, you won't be paying £5-10k for a whole new battery pack. Likewise, a 10+ year old ICE car could easily end up with maintenance needed that could cost the same as refurbishing a battery pack - and goodness knows what petrol will be costing by 2025 onwards.

And most EVs will be getting charged at 7kW at home overnight, so there won't be a need to provide every car owner with 150kW fast chargers.
 

The Ham

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
12,036
A dignified climb down from the government when 2030, if the cheap cars EV evangelists promise don't come, or charging infrastructure is insufficient, would be exempting 50 or 100 g/km superminis.

I don't really understand the people saying that ICE will naturally go away before the ban , Toyota have stated they will make them to the bitter end, and their always be little Chinese manufacturers ready to fulfil demand if their is any demand existing.

I'm not so sure about the Chinese, their home market has massively embraced EV's in 2022 the UK market saw 16% of new cars being EV's, in comparison China saw 23%. It should also be noted that the top 4 most popular new cars in April were all EV's with a further 2 in the top 10, with only one of the others being a pure ICE vehicle:


With numbers like that, why chase a tiny fraction of you home market to then sell a few extra half way around the world?

If there is any climb down, then it'll be one of the government's doing (mostly not enabling the required grid connections for large charging locations or not legislating to require enough chargers - see the new EU requirement for chargers linked to below).


Europe will mandate that, along these primary routes, charging plazas with at least 400 kW total capacity (and at least one 150kW+ charger) must be placed at least every 60 km by 2026. In 2028, the minimum capacity will increase to 600 kW, requiring at least two 150kW+ chargers.

Those with EV's are likely to wonder if such an EU ruling might not be too bad for the UK to also have, it would certainly overcome a lot of those objections often seen about lack of charger capacity in the UK road network (obviously it'll still be no good for those millions of people who drive the whole length of the west coast of Wales non stop twice a day to see family three times a week, so clearly not worth doing for those edge cases where people do long distance travel by mostly using motorways and stopping every few hours to get a drink and go to the loo!!!)
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,910
A dignified climb down from the government when 2030, if the cheap cars EV evangelists promise don't come, or charging infrastructure is insufficient, would be exempting 50 or 100 g/km superminis.

I don't really understand the people saying that ICE will naturally go away before the ban , Toyota have stated they will make them to the bitter end, and their always be little Chinese manufacturers ready to fulfil demand if their is any demand existing.
China is the biggest EV market in the world.
ICE will go anyway as EVs are much better to drive. There's no way I'd ever go back to ICE
The cheap cars will start to arrive between now and 2025. I think we'll see plenty of cars around £20k or below (inflation excepted). Second hand, you will be looking at £5-10k getting something that still has a decent battery and plenty of life left. There are now 10 year old EVs that look like bargains, and most EVs are packed with toys so even 2013 cars aren't devoid of features.
You can get a 1 or 2 year old Zoe with rapid charging for less than £15k now. In fact I saw one advertised for just over £10k.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
6,883
You can get a 1 or 2 year old Zoe with rapid charging for less than £15k now. In fact I saw one advertised for just over £10k.
Onto are currently defleeting their 2yr old Zoes, all with rapid charge and a decent spec, so flooding the market at the moment. There are some excellent deals around as a result.
 

WelshBluebird

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2010
Messages
5,606
One of the things with EV charging is you have to stop thinking of just having "one" solution for everyone, or even one solution for a particular person. Today, 99.9% of drivers will fill up at a petrol station. But with EV's, people need to charge based on their own circumstance. For some people that will mean charging at home, for others at work, for others rapid chargers whilst on a journey, for others small charges at the supermarket each week etc etc. For some people they will use multiple different methods. It is pretty big shift in how you think about refuelling so it isn't that surprising that some people struggle with the concepts.
 

Top