Heritage railway electrification: Will it ever become a reality?

[m79900]

Electric trains form a major part of the railways. They deserve to be preserved just as much as their diesel counterparts, so will any railways ever install OHLE or third rail? It’d be ridiculously expensive, so will it ever happen?

 

[Titfield]

Heritage Railways struggle to maintain their infrastructure as it is. Additional burdens would be unwelcome and highly unlikely to be adopted for numerous reasons.

 

[david1212]

Safety is another issue. Three factors are keeping the public safe, day to day operation and maintenance.
The most practical way is battery as e.g. proposed for running the ex-IOW units. In time there will be battery's from scrapped EV's that could run an EMU at 25mph maximum for a few miles twice a day.

 

[edwin_m]

There are several tramway and trolleybus museums where the heritage sector successfully manages power supplies, albeit at rather lower voltages and currents than would be needed for heavy rail.

 

[Sheldonian]

Would they be popular enough to warrant the high cost of installing and maintaining.

 

[Irascible]

I think this was discussed fairly recently? battery power and dummy 3rd rail for a section might be feasable, OLE feels like it'd still need a lot of maintenance even if there's nothing flowing through it.

 

[DarloRich]

It’d be ridiculously expensive, so will it ever happen?

I cant see how it would be feasible from a cost or safety point of view - the regulatory/compliance requirements would be onerous surely.

 

[steamybrian]

Volks Electric Railway in Brighton is third rail operation

 

[m79900]

Volks Electric Railway in Brighton is third rail operation

That's been electric for 140 years though, and its narrow gauge.

 

[D6130]

I believe that part or all of the present day East Kent Railway was electrified by BR in the late 1950s on the 750V dc overhead system to allow class 71 electric locos to work the coal trains from Tilmanstone Colliery. Perhaps a short length of that could be reinstated....especially if some, or all, of the original stanchions are still in situ?

 

[steamybrian]

That's been electric for 140 years though, and its narrow gauge.

It did not state whether standard or narrow gauge.
Been on it many times...!
Just to illustrate that a private heritage railway can operate electric trains. This is in addition to the many electric tramway services.

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I believe that part or all of the present day East Kent Railway was electrified by BR in the late 1950s on the 750V dc overhead system to allow class 71 electric locos to work the coal trains from Tilmanstone Colliery. Perhaps a short length of that could be reinstated....especially if some, or all, of the original stanchions are still in situ?

As far as I know the East Kent Railway was not electrified. The siding(s) adjacent to the mainline at Shepherds Well may have been electrified.

 

[2392]

Going back to the days of an independent [as part of the Department of Transport] Railway Inspectorate and the the late Major Olver. As the Inspectorates "Preservation" Inspectorate remarked that, they had no objections in principal, to a persevered line running electric trains, provided that they met the relevant regulations etc ......

 

[12LDA28C]

In a word - No.

 

[Simon Flack]

There is speculation/chatter/hearsay that IF the Bluebell Railway did complete the link from Horsted Keynes to Ardingly then on to Haywards Heath that possible Heritage electric 3rd rail emu's would run but I don't think there is a chance in hell that it would be a "Live" 3rd rail option. Possibly in the stations there maybe 3rd rail for aesthetic reasons but very little chance it would be live. Battery power has been muted i believe to give the illusion but that's as close as it may ever get. At Haywards Heath there is obviously live 3rd rail but that is only as far as Copyhold Junction, the line currently under NR ownership to Ardingly isn't electrified.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is speculation/chatter/hearsay that IF the Bluebell Railway did complete the link from Horsted Keynes to Ardingly then on to Haywards Heath that possible Heritage electric 3rd rail emu's would run but I don't think there is a chance in hell that it would be a "Live" 3rd rail option. Possibly in the stations there maybe 3rd rail for aesthetic reasons but very little chance it would be live. Battery power has been muted i believe to give the illusion but that's as close as it may ever get. At Haywards Heath there is obviously live 3rd rail but that is only as far as Copyhold Junction, the line currently under NR ownership to Ardingly isn't electrified.

Given the small mileages heritage railways involve lead-acid battery power could well be an option - after all BR did themselves make a BEMU that way.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2023 ==

I think this was discussed fairly recently? battery power and dummy 3rd rail for a section might be feasable, OLE feels like it'd still need a lot of maintenance even if there's nothing flowing through it.

OLE would get nicked if there wasn't power running through it.

I suppose to be fair the Seaton Tramway is electric. Though apparently only 120 volts.

 

[Falcon1200]

As far as I know the East Kent Railway was not electrified. The siding(s) adjacent to the mainline at Shepherds Well may have been electrified.

That was the case, in later years Class 09 worked from Tilmanstone to Shepherds Well with Class 71 taking over there.

 

[edwin_m]

I suppose to be fair the Seaton Tramway is electric. Though apparently only 120 volts.

Crich, Heaton Park, Beamish, Sandtoft and probably some others I have missed all operate DC electrification at similar voltages to the third rail, illustrating that in principle there's no problem with the heritage sector doing so.

 

[3RDGEN]

The Eden Valley Railway have already done the BEMU option "http://www.evr-cumbria.org.uk/Cumbrian Boat Train.htm". Perhaps the nearest you will get to "3rd Rail" in preserved operation?

Perhaps The Bluebell could run that formation to Haywards Heath and charge the MLV on the NR 3rd rail section?

 

[341o2]

There are several tramway and trolleybus museums where the heritage sector successfully manages power supplies, albeit at rather lower voltages and currents than would be needed for heavy rail.

There is a story from when the Blackpool tramway was electrified and a member of the public asked whether she be electrocuted if she stepped onto a rail. The reply was "No, madam, unless you place your other foot on that wire up there". Mention of Wolks Railway (and there is the Hythe Pier railway) reminds me that the original system of the Giant's Causeway tramway was supposed to be safe, but a cyclist fell across the tracks and was electrocuted.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

This one rears its head from time to time. The answer is 'no'. For instance, the Light Railway Orders under which the Mid Hants operates specifically forbid electric traction, other than battery or on-board generator powered. I would be amazed if similar provisions do not feature in other LROs and TWAOs.
Pat

 

[eldomtom2]

Electric traction, whether by batteries or some form of low-voltage electrification, is definitely something that preserved railways should be looking at. The public may not look kindly on diesels in the future.

 

[WAO]

Our experience at the Coventry Electric Railway Museum was that there was no intrinsic HMRI objection to electrification, provided that normal risk assessment and mitigation were followed. The reason why full 25kV OLE and 750V dc electrification will not be followed are the same as for the "real" railway; there isn't the volume of traffic to require it, not that it is unavoidably unsafe, or even costly.

The envelope within which a heritage operation takes place (max 25mph) is such that quite low powers are needed but with significant currents for starting (as do diesel electric drives). Thus the MLV's will only have 200V not 750V batteries and these were the weaker Lead acid types not the modern Lithium based units. Traditional dc units used resistance control of traction motors - wasteful at low speeds and ac units transformed down and rectified the supply. HV ac was only needed if there were long distances (26 miles) between feeder stations - not an issue for heritage railways.

Thus it is possible to envisage electric traction running off batteries, only a little larger than those in cars, given adequate starting current, rather like the class 230's. There would be some adjustment to circuitry and control, as well as ancillaries. Any demand for third rail or OLE would be really only cosmetic, even the 200V (or tramway 550V) needed could mostly be better provided from batteries.

An electric 2EPB or lightweight 503 is quite possible for a lot less than a steam loco's 10 year maintenance. Equally, a "battery pack" sited within a brake tender vehicle like the one newly built on the GCR would allow a wider range of stock to be used, from the Eden Valley's CEP's to the EPB's at East Kent, etc.

Such units would be very useful on major heritage railways, on the timetable "shoulders", where expensive steam haulage would be underused. EMU's often have comfortable or interesting traditional interiors.

It does need someone with significant but not massive resources to step in to a very topical field....

WAO

 

[skyhigh]

The reason why full 25kV OLE and 750V dc electrification will not be followed are the same as for the "real" railway; there isn't the volume of traffic to require it, not that it is unavoidably unsafe, or even costly.

I really don't think you can reasonably claim installation and maintenance of 25kV AC OHLE wouldn't be costly. The cost of installing a grid supply alone will be huge.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

There is speculation/chatter/hearsay that IF the Bluebell Railway did complete the link from Horsted Keynes to Ardingly then on to Haywards Heath that possible Heritage electric 3rd rail emu's would run but I don't think there is a chance in hell that it would be a "Live" 3rd rail option. Possibly in the stations there maybe 3rd rail for aesthetic reasons but very little chance it would be live. Battery power has been muted i believe to give the illusion but that's as close as it may ever get. At Haywards Heath there is obviously live 3rd rail but that is only as far as Copyhold Junction, the line currently under NR ownership to Ardingly isn't electrified.

What if the heritage third rail was used to charge the onboard batteries rather than to power the heritage electric units outright? Rest of the line could simply be a plastic mock but certain sections being "live" but as mentioned only used to charge whilst on the go. Bluebell could stick it in the middle of Shapthorne Tunnel as no one would be daft enough to walk through the tunnel when the line isn't being used in service, this excludes when they have to do works as the line would have to be switched off.

 

[m79900]

What if the heritage third rail was used to charge the onboard batteries rather than to power the heritage electric units outright? Rest of the line could simply be a plastic mock but certain sections being "live" but as mentioned only used to charge whilst on the go. Bluebell could stick it in the middle of Shapthorne Tunnel as no one would be daft enough to walk through the tunnel when the line isn't being used in service, this excludes when they have to do works as the line would have to be switched off.

Similar to GWRs planned 'Fast Charge' system?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Similar to GWRs planned 'Fast Charge' system?

Yes. As it would keep things moving without it becoming a health and safety risk to visitors, if it works on the Bluebell then other heritage railway might decide to do the same.

 

[The Ham]

There was a news story a few years back about the Watercress line going electric, it was published on the day after the end of March!

 

[infobleep]

This one rears its head from time to time. The answer is 'no'. For instance, the Light Railway Orders under which the Mid Hants operates specifically forbid electric traction, other than battery or on-board generator powered. I would be amazed if similar provisions do not feature in other LROs and TWAOs.
Pat

Playing devil's advocate I don't see any legal reason why they can't choose to operate under a higher order than the light railways one.

I fully accept why it won't happen in the real world. I would love it to happen but appreciate it can't.

 

[WAO]

I really don't think you can reasonably claim installation and maintenance of 25kV AC OHLE wouldn't be costly. The cost of installing a grid supply alone will be huge.

I don't think that I said that it wouldn't be costly, just pointless.

WAO

 

[infobleep]

Yes. As it would keep things moving without it becoming a health and safety risk to visitors, if it works on the Bluebell then other heritage railway might decide to do the same.

The question is, would it run further from Haywards Heath than Horsted Kyenes?