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Independent Operators in the Lothians

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I've never met, but I have a great online relationship with the owners of Prentice through Flickr. They are usually most helpful and prompt at responding. Radio silence so far after 3 days.
Same situation with me, they normally reply within minutes but since I first mentioned the new bus 4 days ago, they've not said a word, and when I (politely) asked for an explanation they've not responded. It's rather odd for the company at the moment. I suppose not responding to people is making it rather obvious that this scenario did happen.

I hope it was a mistake if it did happen, which I believe it is, although it's not the worst offence in the world.
 
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GusB

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Same situation with me, they normally reply within minutes but since I first mentioned the new bus 4 days ago, they've not said a word, and when I (politely) asked for an explanation they've not responded. It's rather odd for the company at the moment. I suppose not responding to people is making it rather obvious that this scenario did happen.
Have you considered that they might be busy with other things. So far we know that at least two people from the forum have contacted them directly with the same enquiry; what about the others we don't know about? They're a bus company, first and foremost; while they may generally be good with answering enthusiast enquiries, it's not a core part of their operation!

Maybe they're tied up with DVLA paperwork... :)

I hope it was a mistake if it did happen, which I believe it is, although it's not the worst offence in the world.
Until you have a definitive answer, please don't speculate.
 
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Have you considered that they might be busy with other things. So far we know that at least two people from the forum have contacted them directly with the same enquiry; what about the others we don't know about? They're a bus company, first and foremost; while they may generally be good with answering enthusiast enquiries, it's not a core part of their operation!

Maybe they're tied up with DVLA paperwork... :)


Until you have a definitive answer, please don't speculate.
That's why I stated, "if it did happen." (Please don't take it in a rude way don't mean it to come across like that.)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

With the owner currently having family issues, the fleet is the least of their worries. I'm sure we'll hear soon.
 
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VioletEclipse

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I have been wondering for a while if Edinburgh Coach Lines have fleet numbers. I remember that they used to display fleet numbers on many of their buses and coaches in the early and mid 2010s, but I haven't seen any recently.
 

Nawm8

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I have been wondering for a while if Edinburgh Coach Lines have fleet numbers. I remember that they used to display fleet numbers on many of their buses and coaches in the early and mid 2010s, but I haven't seen any recently.
They do use fleet numbers, but they aren't particularly identified as such on the vehicle. The board that the keys hang on are numbered as such.

I would speculate that the numbers may be allocated by eirebus, as there is some exchanging of vehicles between them and ECL.
 

VioletEclipse

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They do use fleet numbers, but they aren't particularly identified as such on the vehicle. The board that the keys hang on are numbered as such.

I would speculate that the numbers may be allocated by eirebus, as there is some exchanging of vehicles between them and ECL.
Thanks!
 

Blindtraveler

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As announced on website and socials last week there are a number of imminent changes at Prentice.

Most significant is the sad demise of the 118 which apparently has been suffering low post pandemic usage and is unaffordably loss making.


Seton Sands to Musselburgh

Service withdrawn from 8th May 2023​

Will be withdrawn due to low passenger numbers. Despite trying various options to make the route profitable passenger numbers have never recovered following the COVID lockdowns.
The situation has been exasperated by the withdrawal of see both additional funding, and at this time standard funding, for bus services by Transport Scotland and we can no longer sustain the losses on this route.
 
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TheEastCoaster

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As announced on website and socials last week there are a number of imminent changes at Prentice.

Most significant is the sad demise of the 118 which apparently has been suffering low post pandemic usage and is unaffordably loss making.


It is a shame but at least the areas it ran through won’t go unserved at least! I do appreciate that Prentice did experiment around with the service to try and make it work like running it to the Hospital via The Wisp or running it along Brunstane and The Jewel.
 

roadierway77

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As announced on website and socials last week there are a number of imminent changes at Prentice.

Most significant is the sad demise of the 118 which apparently has been suffering low post pandemic usage and is unaffordably loss making.

Unfortunate but not surprising, considering how frequent Lothian's services are along the route, especially between Prestonpans and Musselburgh. Hopefully not much of a loss for regular users along this corridor.
 

VioletEclipse

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In some ways it's actually a relief to see that Prentice are only withdrawing the 118, which is entirely duplicated by other services. This hopefully means that they are confident that they have the resources to keep the rest of their network running. Espescially after what's happening in West Lothian with McGill's cutting their services dramatically.
 

TheEastCoaster

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I was wondering if anyone can clear this up for me, what route does the 13 take towards Lochend in Leith?

As far as in concerned Dalmeny street is closed off because of the new tram stop, so are buses running down Leith and back up Easter Road? or are they running up Leith Walk and London Road onto Easter Road? I'm not sure and was hoping someone can clear this up for me.
 
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I was wondering if anyone can clear this up for me, what route does the 13 take towards Lochend in Leith?

As far as in concerned Dalmeny street is closed off because of the new tram stop, so are buses running down Leith and back up Easter Road? or are they running up Leith Walk and London Road onto Easter Road? I'm not sure and was hoping someone can clear this up for me.
At Lochend Terminus, going towards Edinburgh after terminating, it does a circular from Restalrig Drive, Findlay Gardens, and Sleigh Drive. It goes up St. Clair Street, continues along Dalmeny Street, and turns left to Leith Walk. It goes up McDonald Road then left to Broughton Road, down Bellevue, then London Street, and then it continues.

On the way back, it goes from London Road, to Bellevue, through Broughton Road then turns right to McDonald Road, then onto Leith Walk shortly after going on Leith Walk it turns left onto Pilrig Street, then quickly turns right onto Cambridge Avenue, then turns right again onto Balfour Street, onto Dalmeny street and then continues to Lochend.

I hope this helps!
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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On the way back, it goes from London Road, to Bellevue, through Broughton Road then turns right to McDonald Road, then onto Leith Walk shortly after going on Leith Walk it turns left onto Pilrig Street, then quickly turns right onto Cambridge Avenue, then turns right again onto Balfour Street, onto Dalmeny street and then continues to Lochend.
Isn’t Cambridge Avenue the one that is blocked off? It certainly used to be. Even then that seems very tight for an Evora to fit down.
 

DunsBus

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Isn’t Cambridge Avenue the one that is blocked off? It certainly used to be. Even then that seems very tight for an Evora to fit down.
It was, for many years. Nearby Arthur Street was also blocked off, at the north-east (Balfour Street) end.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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It was, for many years. Nearby Arthur Street was also blocked off, at the north-east (Balfour Street) end.
Why they have opened these up is anyone’s guess. Just the usual standards we can expect though. Does the 13 seriously go down that narrow road? That seems like a real challenge. Arthur Street doesn’t look quite as bad.
 

DunsBus

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Why they have opened these up is anyone’s guess. Just the usual standards we can expect though. Does the 13 seriously go down that narrow road? That seems like a real challenge. Arthur Street doesn’t look quite as bad.
Arthur Street and Cambridge Avenue were opened up so that vehicles could access Balfour Street from Pilrig Street whilst the Balfour Street/Leith Walk junction was closed during the tramworks. I believe both streets are to be re-closed very shortly.
 

stevenedin

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At Lochend Terminus, going towards Edinburgh after terminating, it does a circular from Restalrig Drive, Findlay Gardens, and Sleigh Drive. It goes up St. Clair Street, continues along Dalmeny Street, and turns left to Leith Walk. It goes up McDonald Road then left to Broughton Road, down Bellevue, then London Street, and then it continues.

On the way back, it goes from London Road, to Bellevue, through Broughton Road then turns right to McDonald Road, then onto Leith Walk shortly after going on Leith Walk it turns left onto Pilrig Street, then quickly turns right onto Cambridge Avenue, then turns right again onto Balfour Street, onto Dalmeny street and then continues to Lochend.

I hope this helps!
Did it not only go to London Road on diversion?
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Did it not only go to London Road on diversion?
I thought the diversion route was serving Broughton Street, Picardy Place and then London Road. With everything now having reopened I’m not sure what the actual route it is doing will be now. Even when you go onto Edinburgh Coach Lines’ website it doesn’t mention anything. I’m sure it was also using Pilrig Street in the Leith Walk direction towards Lochend while McDonald Road was shut as well.

I think I shall have to try the 13 again next week, as I still highly doubt it is serving or has ever served Cambridge Avenue!
 

VioletEclipse

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In my experience it's been a case for a wee bit of get on a 13 and you'll find out the current diversion as it does it, there seems to be no publicised information on it at all and hasn't been throughout the tramworks.
 

Nawm8

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The Lochend-bound 13 is currently routed down Leith Walk, right along Duke St. and then right up Easter Rd. and then left onto St. Clair St.

The working theory is it will run via Albert St. both ways when Scottish Water finish their works there, although this is actually up to Edinburgh Council, so don't hold your breath.

Interestingly, the General Manager of Edinburgh Coach Lines is leaving to head up Marine garage for Lothian.
 
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stevenedin

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The Lochend-bound 13 is currently routed down Leith Walk, right along Duke St. and then right up Easter Rd. and then left onto St. Clair St.

The working theory is it will run via Albert St. both ways when Scottish Water finish their works there, although this is actually up to Edinburgh Council, so don't hold your breath.

Interestingly, the General Manager of Edinburgh Coach Lines is leaving to head up Marine garage for Lothian.
Is Dalmeny Street no longer accessible to a bus?
 

Porty

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I was wondering if anyone can clear this up for me, what route does the 13 take towards Lochend in Leith?

As far as in concerned Dalmeny street is closed off because of the new tram stop, so are buses running down Leith and back up Easter Road? or are they running up Leith Walk and London Road onto Easter Road? I'm not sure and was hoping someone can clear this up for me.
All the responses seem to indicate that no-one is really very clear - if the answer is get on in the city centre and do a roundtrip to see the current route, then this is extremely poor when it is a council run contract. It doesn't seem to be a good use of taxpayers money for no-one to be aware of diversions. At least the very least Edinburgh Coach Lines website should highlight changes.

On a wider point I've never really understood what the route is designed to achieve. It seems to be very lightly used. I'm more familiar with the Leith/Lochend part of the route but is anyone much more than 400m from a commercially run route and stop? In which case what is an hourly bus trying to do? I am genuinely interested in the reasoning behind council tax payers money being spent on it.

Does anyone know how much it costs? To my mind there are potentially more deserving candidates for subsidised services.
 

Avenger20

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All the responses seem to indicate that no-one is really very clear - if the answer is get on in the city centre and do a roundtrip to see the current route, then this is extremely poor when it is a council run contract. It doesn't seem to be a good use of taxpayers money for no-one to be aware of diversions. At least the very least Edinburgh Coach Lines website should highlight changes.

On a wider point I've never really understood what the route is designed to achieve. It seems to be very lightly used. I'm more familiar with the Leith/Lochend part of the route but is anyone much more than 400m from a commercially run route and stop? In which case what is an hourly bus trying to do? I am genuinely interested in the reasoning behind council tax payers money being spent on it.

Does anyone know how much it costs? To my mind there are potentially more deserving candidates for subsidised services.
It's the only bus to serve Ravelston Dykes from the city centre so it's handy at that end of the route but I quite agree that it's usefulness at the eastern end is somewhat lacking.
 

computerSaysNo

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It's the only bus to serve Ravelston Dykes from the city centre so it's handy at that end of the route but I quite agree that it's usefulness at the eastern end is somewhat lacking.
What's the PVR of the route at the moment? I'm thinking that you could run from the Torphichen Street/Morrison Street/Torphichen Place loop at Haymarket, up round the existing route at Ravelston and terminate at the existing Retail Park, you could do that within 30 minutes each way. Say the existing PVR is four vehicles, if you keep that but only run the above route you could have a bus every 15 minutes which has got to be more useful than a bus every hour?
And as quoted, the eastern end of the route is pretty much covered by other services anyway.
 

Porty

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What's the PVR of the route at the moment? I'm thinking that you could run from the Torphichen Street/Morrison Street/Torphichen Place loop at Haymarket, up round the existing route at Ravelston and terminate at the existing Retail Park, you could do that within 30 minutes each way. Say the existing PVR is four vehicles, if you keep that but only run the above route you could have a bus every 15 minutes which has got to be more useful than a bus every hour?
And as quoted, the eastern end of the route is pretty much covered by other services anyway.
Thinking about it if it's just the western end that's useful why not run some sort of circular service to serve the Holyrood /Dumbiedykes area in lieu of the eastern end. I know that bus services there are always being asked for. Maybe that could be achieved at nil additional cost to the taxpayer. I think we ought to move this to the speculative section if anyone wants to pursue this topic. Sorry moderators.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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What's the PVR of the route at the moment?
As it’s hourly, it’s just 2.

To be honest the eastern end of the route is usually fairly quiet and I’m not sure too many would complain if it was taken away. Most streets unserved are within walking distance of another service and the majority of links are still maintained.

I do think if we’re talking about the future of the 13 and specifically these ideas it should be moved to the Edinburgh & the Lothians bus network speculations and ideas thread.
 
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VioletEclipse

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In this Flickr post https://www.flickr.com/photos/barberbus/50593174626/ someone has commented that Edinburgh Coach Lines Evora SN19 FJA is ex Lothian demonstrator 299 (BV19 LND). Is this true? I don't see why it would have been reregistered, but I also can't find a trace of 299 after it was a Lothian demonstrator or find any info on FJA before it started service on the 13, and a Bus Lists on the Web search for SN19FJA doesn't show any results, so it's believable.
 

Bus9120UK

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In this Flickr post https://www.flickr.com/photos/barberbus/50593174626/ someone has commented that Edinburgh Coach Lines Evora SN19 FJA is ex Lothian demonstrator 299 (BV19 LND). Is this true? I don't see why it would have been reregistered, but I also can't find a trace of 299 after it was a Lothian demonstrator or find any info on FJA before it started service on the 13, and a Bus Lists on the Web search for SN19FJA doesn't show any results, so it's believable.
I've noticed that this one has a nearside CCTV camera at the top front which former Demo 299 didn't feature. I do agree it is believable nonetheless. Edit: Looking further into it, SN19 FJA is former 191-D-37522 formerly operating at Dublin Airport.
 

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