Edinburgh & the Lothians bus network speculations & ideas

[LothianBusesPh]

I saw a 40/X40 at the Royal Infirmary and 7 passengers got off, at around 14:30.

 

[Metal Mickey]

I’d say it’s unlikely that the Lothian Group of companies (LB, ECB & LCB) will be successful in bidding for tenders, whether it be in West Lothian or City of Edinburgh, as their costs will be too high largely due to paying some of the highest rates of driver pay in the UK outwith London.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The X40 (if it turns up) is very fast if you need to get to the Royal Infirmary (half an hour from Livingston Centre and the single fare priced at £2.50 is a bargain). I agree about the passenger numbers though, I feel like it needs to be advertised and be reliable for people to use it.

I feel like a commercial direct link from Livingston Centre or even the same as now and then onwards to Waterloo Place, Edinburgh but via the fastest way possible would be a better investment and keep the 40 in place to cover the Royal Infirmary.

I feel if the link was better known then it would probably do really well, I'm under the influence of "use what you know", and Lothian being the well known operator in the region could do the 40 justice!

Honestly I would cut the X40 and improve on making the 40 a reliable service, I would say maybe calling at Straiton would be a good call, but it could also maybe make the service unreliable.

If it was me I would advertise the service as such...

LCB 40 (St John's Hospital to Royal Infirmary)
Via Livingston Centre, Dedridge, A71, Bonnington, Ratho, Gogarbank, Germiston, Straiton P&R, Gilmerton.

Running every hour Monday to Sunday, (07:00-21:00)

Last Journey: Livingston 21:00
Last Journey Royal Infirmary 21:05 (To Livingston Centre)

 

[computerSaysNo]

4. Should the 26/44 goes along Leith Street and London Road instead. Leopold Place used to be a big stop for the 26. And now going down Leith Street doesn't take too much longer (compared to the 4/5 it's probably just taking 2 minutes more most of the time). Then it can stop outside St James Quarter instead of Apple Store (which cause congestion at that stop a lot of the time). It doesn't have to stop all 4 stops on London Road until Abbeyhill but maybe just Leopold Place then Abbeyhill?

7. Stops along Princes Street.
(A) The stop outside Apple Store is always a nightmare, especially when all the buses are sticking together. Even buses not stopping there are being blocked. Should the EastCoastBuses route stop at the front of the bus stop or moved slightly futher and Lothian routes at the back so that they can pick up passengers at the same time?
(B) The 1, 16, 25, 34, 124 stopping at Waverley Steps and Scott Monument. The stops are so close together but then the 25 can really pick up lots of passengers both stops and it doesn't make sense to cancel the stop at Scott Monument as the 3/33 stops there too. It's a dilemma but it does need some changes imo.

I think that junction between Princes Street, Waterloo Place, Leith Street, and North Bridge, needs modification. Leith Street to Princes Street can effectively only take one bus per traffic light cycle because of the timings, and the whole junction is just a mess. Thinking about it for 30 seconds I'd probably make it "across only" i.e. you can cross it between Princes Street and Waterloo Place, and between Leith Street and North Bridge, but you can't turn i.e. you can't do Leith Street to Princes Street. That would at least reduce the traffic lights to two phases plus pedestrians. Buses from Elm Row to Princes Street can all go via York Place. Buses from the east to Princes Street can all go via Waterloo Place. Buses from North Bridge to Princes Street can either take George IV bridge instead or go Leith Street then York Place.


Regardless, I think there's only room for at most one bus stop outside Waverley Steps in each direction. If the junction doesn't change, I think

• Buses to/from Waterloo Place should stop on Waterloo Place and Scott Monument only
• Buses to/from North Bridge should stop at North Bridge and Scott Monument only
• Buses to/from Leith Street should stop at Leith Street and Scott Monument only.

Until North Bridge reopens for stopping, services usually stopping on North Bridge should stop at Waverley Steps instead. After that, you could say long distance services only should stop at Waverley Steps, or something like that.

 

[danielhogg2005]

With Buses 841-6 coming to Livingston could there be a possibility of a needed service like the 280 returning?

 

[zjsptgzxyspks]

I think the 22 should be going to Musselburgh Grammar School instead of Granton to ease the load of the 26.
The Granton section would ideally be fitted on the 41(9) and returns to use the Mound.
The eastern section of 45 would then be: South Bridge - Leith St - Botanic - Inverleith Pl - E Fettes Ave - Comely Bank - Craigleith Sainsburys

 

[Ding Ding]

With Buses 841-6 coming to Livingston could there be a possibility of a needed service like the 280 returning?

I can assure you, these buses being deckers, there is no way LCB are doing the 40 X40 or 20 63. These will be for a West Lothian subsidized service, whether a new service or an extension to an existing service. These services only require single or midi buses due to the number of passengers.

 

[jb66]

I can assure you, these buses being deckers, there is no way LCB are doing the 40 X40 or 20 63. These will be for a West Lothian subsidized service, whether a new service or an extension to an existing service. These services only require single or midi buses due to the number of passengers.

I would like to see the x17 back. The x18 is busy between Uphall and Edinburgh, but not so much to Bathgate. If they could get timing right could the x17 x18 run a 15min frequency between Edinburgh and Uphall then split there so x17 goes to Livingston and x18 carries on the existing route?

 

[stevenedin]

With Buses 841-6 coming to Livingston could there be a possibility of a needed service like the 280 returning?

The 280 is almost a duplicate of the current 25 so it wouldn’t be the best choice to do that again.

 

[jb66]

The 280 is almost a duplicate of the current 25 so it wouldn’t be the best choice to do that again.

Perhaps 600?

 

[VioletEclipse]

realistically given their age, there's a good chance that 841-850 will be sold on before the end of the year and so won't be operating services from Livi. that being said, if lothian country do end up with tendered services soon then they could be put to use for a bit.

 

[Ding Ding]

realistically given their age, there's a good chance that 841-850 will be sold on before the end of the year and so won't be operating services from Livi. that being said, if lothian country do end up with tendered services soon then they could be put to use for a bit.

Believe me, they are going back in service. Anyone want to wager a bet? East Coast decals coming off, LCB going on.

 

[Bus9120UK]

realistically given their age, there's a good chance that 841-850 will be sold on before the end of the year and so won't be operating services from Livi. that being said, if lothian country do end up with tendered services soon then they could be put to use for a bit.

I'd argue if they were being stored they would be moved to the yard at Newbridge. I do think they will re-enter service.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Believe me, they are going back in service. Anyone want to wager a bet? East Coast decals coming off, LCB going on.

What's your source?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

What's your source?

The way that they said it makes me think it's a prediction.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Service 40/X40 could be doing with a better operator and better vehicles because these buses E&M are running aren't all that great.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Service 40/X40 could be doing with a better operator and better vehicles because these buses E&M are running aren't all that great.

This keeps being said, and I do agree, but better vehicles means whichever company bids is going to want more money in exchange, and with the current system the council can't justify it.

 

[overthewater]

This keeps being said, and I do agree, but better vehicles means whichever company bids is going to want more money in exchange, and with the current system the council can't justify it.

No it doesn't. SD travel was able to provide better vehicles and service when they took over the 31. The public were SO happy.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Service 40/X40 could be doing with a better operator and better vehicles because these buses E&M are running aren't all that great.

I've used Service X40 from the Infirmary when going to visit family in Livingston Centre, but the buses E&M were operating made us regret our decision, get a bus into town and get an X27 instead. The Optare Solo's that Horsburgh runs aren't the best, to be honest.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I've used Service X40 from the Infirmary when going to visit family in Livingston Centre, but the buses E&M were operating made us regret our decision, get a bus into town and get an X27 instead. The Mellor Strata's that Horsburgh runs aren't the best, to be honest.

Don't you mean Optare Solos, Wright Eclipses and the Dennis Darts? As far as I'm aware, E&M Horsburgh don't have any Mellor Stratas.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/busmanscotland/51817622282/ The link will take you to a photo of an E&M Optare Solo, which is the closest to Stratas that I know they have. I didn't take the photo.

 

[Ding Ding]

What's your source?

If I'm wrong, call me out on it. In say, two months, something will be going on with these buses. I can't divulge my source, that would be ridiculous, but if I'm wrong, and I won't be, you can be the first to let me know.

 

[danielhogg2005]

The Dennis dart on the 40 journey I took to Livingston was alright and could be better but the bus on the X40 journey back is what I hate about the service.
I took the photo.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Don't you mean Optare Solos, Wright Eclipses and the Dennis Darts? As far as I'm aware, E&M Horsburgh don't have any Mellor Stratas.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/busmanscotland/51817622282/ The link will take you to a photo of an E&M Optare Solo, which is the closest to Stratas that I know they have. I didn't take the photo.

They’ve definitely got one that regularly runs the 9 or the 7. Doesn’t accept bus fares so don’t think it is a standard service bus for them.

 

[318266]

The Dennis dart on the 40 journey I took to Livingston was alright and could be better but the bus on the X40 journey back is what I hate about the service.
I took the photo.

This bus rarely if ever runs any public route, let alone the X40.
The usual alloc. is two ex-Lothian 06 plate B7RLE/Eclipses that were new to Arriva Kent & Surrey.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Don't you mean Optare Solos, Wright Eclipses and the Dennis Darts? As far as I'm aware, E&M Horsburgh don't have any Mellor Stratas.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/busmanscotland/51817622282/ The link will take you to a photo of an E&M Optare Solo, which is the closest to Stratas that I know they have. I didn't take the photo.

Must've got myself confused, sorry! It was about 2 years ago it happened so maybe.. it was a solo.

 

[Numpt33]

I would like to see a new route running along the coast, something like;

RIE > Wisp > Dunddingston Park > Brighton place, Portobello > Seafield Road > Salamander St > Commercial St > Starbank Rd. > West Granton Rd. > Cramon Village > Maybury Rd. > Gyle shopping centre

A lot of these sections are rural/light loadings, but it would likely be a faster way of getting around the

this would ideally match with a better 400, which cuts out Colinton Mains and travels along Redford Rd. to make one big orbital thingie.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

RIE > Wisp > Dunddingston Park > Brighton place, Portobello > Seafield Road > Salamander St > Commercial St > Starbank Rd. > West Granton Rd. > Cramon Village > Maybury Rd. > Gyle shopping centre

I think it would maybe end at Cammo or Maybury Roundabout, otherwise it would be very similar to Service 21. Even saying, Service 21 already acts as a de-facto Coastal Route, following something along the lines of this:

RIE > Greendykes > Niddrie > Duddingston Pk. > Portobello > Lochend > Newkirkgate > Ferry Road > Davidson's Mains > Clermiston > South Gyle > Gyle Centre
Or:
RIE > Greendykes > Niddrie > Duddingston Pk. > Portobello > Lochend > Newkirkgate > Ferry Road > Davidson's Mains > Clermiston > Broomhouse > Westside Plaza > Clovenstone

RIE - Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh

A lot of these sections are rural/light loadings, but it would likely be a faster way of getting around

The majority of places that have been listed do already have 1/2 services running around there besides The Wisp, Seafield Road (East) and part of Maybury Road (but even then The Wisp has 2/3 services every few months when the surface of the moon aka. Greendykes Road is having resurfacing works).

this would ideally match with a better 400, which cuts out Colinton Mains and travels along Redford Rd. to make one big orbital thingie.

Lothian abandoned circulars years ago, but it would make sense as an Outer-Edinburgh circular. However, Service 400 is running to the airport so maybe it could run along the old Service 18's boundaries? (Service 18 is the same as Service 400 but we need to keep the Airport section otherwise there would be no connections from the south to the Airport).

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Lothian abandoned circulars a year ago, but it would make sense as an Outer-Edinburgh circular. However, Service 400 is running to the airport so maybe it could run along the old Service 18's boundaries? (Service 18 is the same as Service 400 but we need to keep the Airport section otherwise there would be no connections from the south to the Airport).

If any Lothian route should be made a circular, it should be the Service 49. I would do it that the bus does a clockwise circle, then anticlockwise, etc. Other one could be numbered the Service 50 or 42.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

If any Lothian route should be made a circular, it should be the Service 49. I would do it that the bus does a clockwise circle, then anticlockwise, etc. Other one could be numbered the Service 50 or 42.

I totally agree with this! Additionally, the 49 takes around 1hr10m to get from the Royal Infirmary to Fort Kinnaird. If you hop on a 46, 48 or Skylink 400, it would take minimum of 10 minutes.

Another situation to fix Service 49 would be to swap the FK* section with Service 22's Granton Harbour section to reintroduce Service 22 to Princes St and to stop Service 49 looping in on itself.

*FK = Fort Kinnaird

 

[stevenedin]

How far in advance do changes need to be registered?
Maybe they're just planning on running duplicates on the 25 during term-time.
If it was me I'd be using XLBs on the 25, assuming they're not needed elsewhere compared with a standard-length bus.

Replying to the post on the Lothian Group thread, thinking about future orders, could Lothian possibly go with Enviro 500EVs for capacity? I noticed that they have just launched in Hong Kong and they would be ideal for services that are busier.