Nigel Farage and that bank account...

[GS250]

Did the ''populist right' seek to have Gary Lineker debanked?

No they did not. Some wanted him denied a public opinion (of which I didn't agree with), others wanted him sacked from MOTD of which wouldn't have bothered me either way.

 

[duncanp]

Yes, indeed. I thought one of the most interesting things that came out of that interview was that he was asked to be on the board of a charity, but then it turned out that this caused the charity all sorts of banking problems and so they needed to ask him to step down. You'd think having an MP on the board of a charity would be a good thing, but not in 2023 it seems!

Was good to see some bipartisanship on this though. Rather better than Rachel Reeves, whose main take from this seems to be to go for the identity politics and say that the attacks on Alison Rose were because she was a woman It is quite impressive that Labour have found someone as shadow chancellor that actually makes Jeremy Hunt look reasonable, and goodness knows that is a tough thing to do.

So you admit to watching Nigel Farage's show on GB news as well.

If your debit card stops working this weekend at least you will know why.

 

[nw1]

Did the ''populist right' seek to have Gary Lineker debanked?

I'm not seeking to have Farage debanked; I just think the whole thing has been blown up out of all proportion. He will of course still have access to a bank account, just not an elite one. As I said I think the country is facing far more critical issues right now and the media (allegedly) whipping themselves up into a lather about this is distracting from the real problems.

I have far more sympathy for the cases highlighted by Peter Oborne linked from a post above where ordinary mortals were denied access to a basic bank account. These cases should be what the media should be focusing on.

 

[MotCO]

. He will of course still have access to a bank account, just not an elite one.

Will he? He has not been offered a business account, and would you want a personal account at a bank which has treated you disgracefully?

 

[MikeWM]

So you admit to watching Nigel Farage's show on GB news as well.

If your debit card stops working this weekend at least you will know why.

Not for the first time I consider that perhaps I ought to have picked a more obfuscated name when registering here back in 2010. Too late now though!

 

[duncanp]

I have far more sympathy for the cases highlighted by Peter Oborne linked from a post above where ordinary mortals were denied access to a basic bank account.

It isn't just the likes of Nigel Farage that are affected, as the story below, of ordinary mortals being denied access to banking facilities and being unable to buy basic necessities, illustrates.

My vulnerable parents in-law were 'debanked' by HSBC

It sent them a cheque with the balance - around £35,000 - but they are unable to open another bank account to pay it in to.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

CRANE ON THE CASE: My vulnerable in-laws got 'debanked' by HSBC​

• Parents had their only current account closed, and don't know why
• They have a cheque holding all their money - but nowhere to pay it in
• Have you been wronged by a firm? Get in touch: helen.crane@thisismoney.co.uk

My elderly parents in-law had their joint bank account closed by HSBC in December. We don't really understand why but HSBC said it was because of 'safeguarding issues'.

It sent them a cheque with the balance – around £35,000 – but they have no other account to pay it into. Before they told my husband and I in January, they had been living on food they had in the freezer and a small amount of cash borrowed from another relative.

I would describe them as being sheltered and vulnerable. They live in a remote part of the country and have no access to the internet. Between them they have various physical and mental health issues.

Without a bank account they can't access their pensions. They also have no vehicle as they are unable to tax, insure or MOT their car. We are helping them pay for food and bills, but won't be able to afford to much longer.

My mother-in-law has been into her nearest branch – still miles away from her home – eight times to try and sort it out. Most times she was told to go online or make a call. But when she made a phone call with my help, we were told to go to the branch.

My father-in-law struggles to walk so it is hard for him to go with her. Sometimes they say a signature from him will be enough to open the account, but other times not.

My mother in-law had no ID, so I also had to get her a provisional driving licence. HSBC is one of the few banks that will accept this, so we can't simply go elsewhere.

They eventually did manage to apply for a 'basic' bank account in April, but this was declined due to a credit card issue. My parents in-law say they don't have a credit card, but again could be confused.

Essentially, HSBC is saying that they were given warning about the account closure and should have addressed it earlier.

I know my they may not have done what was required, but do you think you could get HSBC to reconsider? We are running out of options. Anon, North Wales

Helen Crane of This is Money replies: 'Debanking' – when a financial institution closes someone's bank account against their will – is all over the news at the moment due to Nigel Farage's complaint against Natwest-owned Coutts.

That story revolves around an exclusive private bank where customers must have serious sums of money at their disposal.

Your parents in law's story, which I was saddened to hear, shows that being 'debanked' can have much graver consequences for those at the other end of the income scale.

It is almost impossible to live your life without a bank.

They lost their sole current account, which they had held for many years and relied upon for all of their income and outgoings.

This included paying in both their pensions, meaning they were left with a cheque for £35,000, but no money at all that they could actually access.

We don't know why HSBC closed the account.

But short of your parents in-law committing a massive fraud, which doesn't seem feasible, I think the bank had a moral obligation to help them find a suitable alternative.

You told me you made it clear to HSBC they couldn't afford life's basic essentials without the money on that cheque.

The bank should have immediately flagged them as being extremely vulnerable, and quickly set them up with a basic account.

Basic accounts are current accounts with no overdraft facility, often used by people who have bad credit or might not qualify for a standard account for another reason.

If your mother and father in-law didn't have your help, I dread to think what might have happened to them in the seven months they have been unable to access their cash.

It appears your parents in-law may have been given some warning that this was going to happen – but given their age and vulnerability, the message might have been missed or not fully understood.

But even if they did get a heads-up, they may not have been able to do much about it – as the bank's decision is usually final.

Their case highlights another big problem with today's banking system, which is that it increasingly excludes older people.

Having never travelled abroad or driven a car, your mother-in-law did not have any valid identification to open a new account.

You were forced to go through the ridiculous rigmarole of getting her a learner driver's licence. It is not the first time I have heard of a bank doing this, and I would urge a bit of common sense here. Surely there is something else that would suffice?

I imagine the account opening process would also have been much easier if she had an internet connection.

I spoke to HSBC to explain my concerns and ask if it could open a new account for them as a priority.

It put you in touch with someone from its specialist 'financial inclusion' team who helped to explain exactly what they needed to do.

There was still some back and forth, especially at the branch where you told me your mother in law was told to bring in one kind of proof of ID, only to be told when she returned that it wasn't acceptable and she needed to bring something different.

Eventually HSBC recommended that your mother-in-law signed up for an account in just her name for now, as this would be quicker.

She applied for a basic bank account and it was approved, but unfortunately this did still take some time.

You said it took a long time to get forms and the debit card posted out, and that branch staff didn't always email when they said they would.

In fact, it took so long that the cheque nearly expired.

I first made contact in early May, and the account was opened and the £35,000 cheque cleared into it by mid-July.

There is also more than £6,000 of backdated pension money that will now be paid into the account.

An HSBC spokesman said: 'Our focus is on helping people build financial health, including those in vulnerable circumstances.

'We're glad that we were able to help [these customers] access the banking services they need.'

I am pleased that your mother and father-in law once again have access to the vital service that is a bank account - but it really shouldn't have taken seven months to get there.

And why the account was closed remains a mystery - as is often the way in reader cases where accounts are shut, getting an answer is almost impossible.

​

 

[nw1]

Will he? He has not been offered a business account, and would you want a personal account at a bank which has treated you disgracefully?

So if Random Joe in the street asks for a Coutts account, and (predictably) gets turned down, does he have a right to have a rant at the NatWest Group?

But fair point about not being offered a business account, I will admit that.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2023 ==

It isn't just the likes of Nigel Farage that are affected, as the story below, of ordinary mortals being denied access to banking facilities and being unable to buy basic necessities, illustrates.

My vulnerable parents in-law were 'debanked' by HSBC

It sent them a cheque with the balance - around £35,000 - but they are unable to open another bank account to pay it in to.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

​

And as I stated I have far more sympathy for such cases and the banks are clearly very much in the wrong.

The media needs to be focusing on ordinary people such as these, and not media-stars-cum-politicians.

 

[duncanp]

And as I stated I have far more sympathy for such cases and the banks are clearly very much in the wrong.

The media needs to be focusing on ordinary people such as these, and not media-stars-cum-politicians.

One of the issues with these account closures is that it is very difficult to speak to someone at the bank to find out the reason why, and try and resolve matters before the account is closed.

This needs to change.

 

[nw1]

One of the issues with these account closures is that it is very difficult to speak to someone at the bank to find out the reason why, and try and resolve matters before the account is closed.

This needs to change.

I fully agree.

 

[MikeWM]

I'm not seeking to have Farage debanked; I just think the whole thing has been blown up out of all proportion. He will of course still have access to a bank account, just not an elite one. As I said I think the country is facing far more critical issues right now and the media (allegedly) whipping themselves up into a lather about this is distracting from the real problems.

I have far more sympathy for the cases highlighted by Peter Oborne linked from a post above where ordinary mortals were denied access to a basic bank account. These cases should be what the media should be focusing on.

The problem is, as I said a few posts ago, that the media nowadays are totally useless, incapable of discovering such stories for themselves and won't run them anyway unless it involves someone 'interesting'. Farage is one of the few people around nowadays that has sufficient people that like him, and sufficient people that hate him, that this story couldn't just be ignored.

It very much *isn't* just about Farage, but he's been a catalyst here, and as someone not especially fond of the guy myself, I have to say 'good for him'.

I also note that Farage is linking this now to the idea of social credit, a cashless society and 'programmable' CBDCs, and is starting to campaign about those things too. For the same reasons, this may finally start a proper debate on this subject. Which I would very much welcome, having gone on about it myself here and elsewhere for the last three years or so - we urgently need someone to spark a proper debate on all this.

 

[crablab]

One of the issues with these account closures is that it is very difficult to speak to someone at the bank to find out the reason why, and try and resolve matters before the account is closed.

This needs to change.

If a decision to exit the relationship relates to AML/PEP/Sanctions then I've explained the legal position on this. It would be a policy matter for the government to change that.

 

[duncanp]

If that relates to AML/PEP/Sanctions then I've explained the legal position on this. It would be a policy matter for the government to change that.

I think the government should change the rules.

The example last night of the Labour MP whose position on the board of a charity caused the charity to have problems with their bank, to the extent that the Labour MP was asked to step down from the board, is just not right.

 

[DustyBin]

I think the issue he is seeking to address is ensuring his appearance in the media as extensively as possible - after all, it must be very disappointing not to be constantly on the BBC any more.

I meant throughout his political career in general, as opposed to this particular episode.

 

[A0]

Even when it results in the collapse of the bank, sure.

I don't for a second believe that's an even realistic prospect. Perhaps focussing on the point that if you don't say discrimination on the basis of personal political views is wrong, then banks have the ability to close your accounts for no reason - that's unacceptable.

One of the issues with these account closures is that it is very difficult to speak to someone at the bank to find out the reason why, and try and resolve matters before the account is closed.

This needs to change.

I fully agree.

However if it's due to fraud the banks are in a tricky position, because they aren't allowed to disclose information as it may affect a criminal prosecution or tip off a criminal that their affairs are being investigated.

 

[Falcon1200]

Because his relationship with Coutts was known (not well know, but known) his political views were therefore seen as a reputational risk.

That seems to have been the case, but again, if he did not meet the wealth criteria for having an account, why even bother with the rest? All it has done is thrust them into the public eye, caused the resignation of two senior executives, and last but not least, got Farage back into the headlines!

These cases should be what the media should be focusing on.

Before Faragegate I was not aware that debanking was even a thing, let alone that it seemingly happens so often; At least it is now very much in the news, and the focus of Government interest, which will benefit far more people than just Farage.

 

[nw1]

Before Faragegate I was not aware that debanking was even a thing, let alone that it seemingly happens so often; At least it is now very much in the news, and the focus of Government interest, which will benefit far more people than just Farage.

This is a fair point (@MikeWM, also agree with your points on this).

While I think that Farage himself is powerful and influential enough to have other options (and I think he may be playing things up a bit) I do agree that denial of access to banking services for ordinary people does need to be focused on much more.

 

[Busaholic]

This is a fair point (@MikeWM, also agree with your points on this).

While I think that Farage himself is powerful and influential enough to have other options (and I think he may be playing things up a bit) I do agree that denial of access to banking services for ordinary people does need to be focused on much more.

Anyone like me who scours a few newspapers, both in print format and online, most days including financial pages and money problem advice knows that there have been numerous cases of banks withdrawing accounts etc without forewarning or explanation. with far more devastation than Farage has ever experienced in his overprivileged life. The Telegraph and Mail have been to the fore, but never seem to have considered trying to make it a political issue until the man from Pratts Bottom blew his top. BBC Radio 4's You and Yours has also featured some egregious examples over the years, but the political class looked the other way.

For a start, almost certainly some of Farage's accounts of what actually happened are at least partially untrue, Indeed, Farage himself has admitted in the past that he's not a details person and prefers a broadbrush interpretation of the 'truth.' Dame Alison Rose will be in no position to deny any of his statements now, and the board will be running far too scared to defend themselves in public now. The main political parties too will be gathering their collective skirts around them. We'll probably have to wait almost a fortnight for the next Private Eye to glean any more than froth.

 

[MP33]

Lloyds Bank have a facility to be an Executive member if you have more than £250k in the Bank. You get one free consulation with a Financial Advisor and a free subscription to one of a number of Magazines, which includes Steam Railway.

To qualify for their private banking, you have to either £2m in the Bank or an annual income of at least £100k.

Coutts initially said the account was closed as the holder no longer met the requirements to continue holding it.

 

[GusB]

When are we all going to realise that Farage is simply an attention seeker who tries to re-invent himself every time there's a chance that he might become irrelevant? I've no time for the BBC's Nick Robinson, but he was absolutely right when he called Farage out as failure regarding becoming an MP.

Sorry, but this odious character has had a disproportionate amount of coverage in the media and it's high time that his oxygen supply was cut off. This isn't about people being "de-banked"; this is all about Nigel. It's highly unlikely that he only has one bank account anyway.

To be clear, I agree that personal details should not have been divulged and Coutt's is very much in the wrong, but let's not kid ourselves.

 

[Welly]

Anti-Brexiteer Gina Miller has had her "True and Fair" party's account with Monzo closed without explanation.

Anti-Brexit campaigner Gina Miller was told a bank account for her political party would close without explanation.
Monzo initially refused to tell Ms Miller why her "True and Fair" party account would be closed in September.
After the BBC contacted the bank about the case, it said it did not allow political party accounts and had made a mistake in allowing it to be opened.
Monzo said it recognised the experience would have been "frustrating for the customer and we're sorry for that".

Ms Miller said a number of banks had turned down an application for her political party to open a bank account.
She did successfully open an account with Monzo in November 2021.
However, earlier this month, Ms Miller received an email from the bank which read: "Unfortunately we can't tell you why we're closing your account.
"We can't share the specific reason for closing your account. As a bank we regularly review and sometimes close accounts as part of our legal and regulatory responsibilities."
After the BBC contacted Monzo about the case - with Ms Miller's permission - the bank did provide an explanation.
A spokeswoman for the bank said: "Like lots of banks, we do not accept any political parties as Monzo Business customers in the same way that we don't currently accept trusts, clubs and a range of other organisations.
"In this case, the account wasn't originally categorised as a political party.
"After this was identified and corrected, the customer was given notice that the account would be closed. We recognise that this experience will have been frustrating for the customer and we're sorry for that."
Ms Miller said the difficulty in accessing banking facilities was a problem.
"The government has to step in," she told the BBC. "We do not have a functioning democracy if you cannot access a bank account."
The government has been critical of NatWest after Mr Farage lost his bank account and Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said nobody should lose their bank account because of legally held political views.
There is no suggestion Ms Miller's political views were involved in this case - but she has sought more information from the bank.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66328098

 

[duncanp]

When are we all going to realise that Farage is simply an attention seeker who tries to re-invent himself every time there's a chance that he might become irrelevant? I've no time for the BBC's Nick Robinson, but he was absolutely right when he called Farage out as failure regarding becoming an MP.

Sorry, but this odious character has had a disproportionate amount of coverage in the media and it's high time that his oxygen supply was cut off. This isn't about people being "de-banked"; this is all about Nigel. It's highly unlikely that he only has one bank account anyway.

To be clear, I agree that personal details should not have been divulged and Coutt's is very much in the wrong, but let's not kid ourselves.

Nigel Farage's failure to become an MP is irrelevant to the circumstances regarding the closure of his bank account, and it is typical of the BBC to try and throw some mud at him, in order to distract people from their complicity in revealing his his personal banking information.

Since this issue has come to light, more stories have appeared in the papers about other people being de-banked, often without explanation, and leaving them without access to their own money.

Post no 140 in this thread from @Welly shows that Gina Miller has had her bank account arbitrarily closed by Monzo because it "doesn't allow" political parties to have bank accounts. Presumably this is because of the Politically Exposed Persons rules, but banks not allowing political parties to have account is a threat to freedom of speech.

And you don't know whether Nigel Farage has another bank account or not.

 

[Bantamzen]

Nigel Farage's failure to become an MP is irrelevant to the circumstances regarding the closure of his bank account, and it is typical of the BBC to try and throw some mud at him, in order to distract people from their complicity in revealing his his personal banking information.

Since this issue has come to light, more stories have appeared in the papers about other people being de-banked, often without explanation, and leaving them without access to their own money.

Post no 140 in this thread from @Welly shows that Gina Miller has had her bank account arbitrarily closed by Monzo because it "doesn't allow" political parties to have bank accounts. Presumably this is because of the Politically Exposed Persons rules, but banks not allowing political parties to have account is a threat to freedom of speech.

And you don't know whether Nigel Farage has another bank account or not.

I'd be more than willing to bet someone from his background won't have all his eggs in one basket. I'm sure he's fine, with other accounts here and overseas. As for the other reports of accounts closing, we need to be a tad careful here. Just because someone goes to the press to say it's happened to them, doesn't mean there wasn't good reason for it. As stated, banks should not be disclosing the reasons if any kind of investigation is ongoing. We don't know the whole story in most cases.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Nigel Farage's failure to become an MP is irrelevant to the circumstances regarding the closure of his bank account, and it is typical of the BBC to try and throw some mud at him, in order to distract people from their complicity in revealing his his personal banking information.

I pretty much agree with everything in your post - but, have the BBC been throwing mud at Nigel Farage over this? I haven't noticed it. Mostly, their coverage seems to me to be fair. They did publish an article incorrectly claiming his account was closed for financial, not political, reasons, but that appears to be because NatWest sources gave the BBC false information rather than due to any failure at the BBC - and I see that article now has a very prominent disclaimer/correction on it: (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66097039)

As for the Nick Robinson interview: Nigel Farage blew up when Nick asked him if he would use the row to come back into politics, which seems to me to be a perfectly fair question to ask an ex-politician, and not something anyone should take exception to. (To be fair though, I don't know if there was anything provocative before that in the interview that might explain Nigel's reaction. There are lots of sites and youtube channels playing the 'Nigel blows up' bit of the interview, but I can't find anywhere that provides the entire interview to give the context)

 

[dosxuk]

Anti-Brexiteer Gina Miller has had her "True and Fair" party's account with Monzo closed without explanation.






https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66328098

I can't wait for Farage to invite Miller onto his GB News show to discuss how unfair it is she's been denied banking facilities.

 

[PeterC]

As much as I dislike Farage the discussion as brought this 18th century quote by Tom Paine to mind.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

 

[nlogax]

I can't wait for Farage to invite Miller onto his GB News show to discuss how unfair it is she's been denied banking facilities.

Am wholly unconvinced she'd want to appear even if she was asked.

When are we all going to realise that Farage is simply an attention seeker who tries to re-invent himself every time there's a chance that he might become irrelevant? I've no time for the BBC's Nick Robinson, but he was absolutely right when he called Farage out as failure regarding becoming an MP.

Sorry, but this odious character has had a disproportionate amount of coverage in the media and it's high time that his oxygen supply was cut off. This isn't about people being "de-banked"; this is all about Nigel. It's highly unlikely that he only has one bank account anyway.

To be clear, I agree that personal details should not have been divulged and Coutt's is very much in the wrong, but let's not kid ourselves.

..is by far and away the best summary of what's actually going on here. Thank you for posting that @GusB. Am 100% in agreement.

 

[DustyBin]

I can't wait for Farage to invite Miller onto his GB News show to discuss how unfair it is she's been denied banking facilities.

That would make great viewing!

It’s worth noting that the situation is slightly different however. Monzo (apparently) have a clear policy of not allowing political parties to bank with them, and are correcting a “mistake”.

That still doesn’t sit well with me, and perhaps the regulations need looking at, but it appears to be a genuine explanation. If this isn’t the case however, and the bank are acting disingenuously, then I stand firmly behind Gina Miller (the highly irritating, threat to democracy that she is ).

 

[crablab]

and leaving them without access to their own money

It might not be lawful for the bank to facilitate access to it. It might not even be "their own"!

Presumably this is because of the Politically Exposed Persons rules, but banks not allowing political parties to have account is a threat to freedom of speech.

Generally speaking, it could be a commercial decision related to the risk appetite of the institution. Political parties might be judged to carry higher risk associated with bribery and corruption, and thus require increased monitoring etc. There are specialist firms who offer specialist products for certain sectors that carry higher levels of risk.
It would not be acceptable to the FCA to state that one was accepting all customers, irrespective of their risk profile against the institutions' risk appetite.

 

[duncanp]

I can't wait for Farage to invite Miller onto his GB News show to discuss how unfair it is she's been denied banking facilities.

And then tell her that we are now able to alter the Politically Exposed Person (PEP) rules to prevent this from happening again because we have, er, left the European Union.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Anti-Brexiteer Gina Miller has had her "True and Fair" party's account with Monzo closed without explanation.

I didn't even know she had a political party, until this story came out! But... so she does! https://www.trueandfairparty.uk/

Rather similar to Farage, maybe it's a case of, No news is bad news