Edinburgh & the Lothians bus network speculations & ideas

[LothianBusesPh]

Does anyone know if McGills are not renewing the contract for the 20 and 63?
If not when will they be up for tender?

Does anyone think that Lothian will pick them up and bunch it in the Lothian Country bracket? As it would make sense considering the routes.

They would probably be run by Lothian out of Longstone, but you never know.

 

[Auld reekie]

Does anyone know if McGills are not renewing the contract for the 20 and 63?
If not when will they be up for tender?

Does anyone think that Lothian will pick them up and bunch it in the Lothian Country bracket? As it would make sense considering the routes.

According to an other thread it's about the end of the year for a new tender.

 

[stevenedin]

Does anyone know if McGills are not renewing the contract for the 20 and 63?
If not when will they be up for tender?

Does anyone think that Lothian will pick them up and bunch it in the Lothian Country bracket? As it would make sense considering the routes.

It wouldn’t make sense for them to send buses from West Lothian when they already have 2 depots in Edinburgh nearby (Newbridge and Longstone), although the fact that they send a bus from West Lothian to Edinburgh currently to operate the 43 is beyond me.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It wouldn’t make sense for them to send buses from West Lothian when they already have 2 depots in Edinburgh nearby (Newbridge and Longstone), although the fact that they send a bus from West Lothian to Edinburgh currently to operate the 43 is beyond me.

Probably just for consistency since the other LCB routes run out of Livingston also, while I know the 20 and 63 both ran out of Longstone back in the day, I can't imagine they wouldn't run them as Lothian Country routes to keep consistent with the current network, plus I'm sure there was an up cry when then 43 was introduced and the fares were different to the 63.

Those along with the 40/X40 would make good addition to the Lothian network, especially with Ratho having not one but two Lothian services to choose from.

 

[stevenedin]

Probably just for consistency since the other LCB routes run out of Livingston also, while I know the 20 and 63 both ran out of Longstone back in the day, I can't imagine they wouldn't run them as Lothian Country routes to keep consistent with the current network, plus I'm sure there was an up cry when then 43 was introduced and the fares were different to the 63.

Those along with the 40/X40 would make good addition to the Lothian network, especially with Ratho having not one but two Lothian services to choose from.

It would be nice, the only thing is that they would have to charge the same price as a standard Lothian bus unless the Council specify differently.

I agree about the 40/X40 but it depends on who wins the contract.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Probably just for consistency since the other LCB routes run out of Livingston also, while I know the 20 and 63 both ran out of Longstone back in the day, I can't imagine they wouldn't run them as Lothian Country routes to keep consistent with the current network, plus I'm sure there was an up cry when then 43 was introduced and the fares were different to the 63.

Those along with the 40/X40 would make good addition to the Lothian network, especially with Ratho having not one but two Lothian services to choose from.

The 63 "could" be classed as a Lothian country route but the 20 is more of a Lothian route.

The 63 spends a lot of the route in the countryside as well as being a local route, whereas the 20 is more of a local route for South West Edinburgh.

 

[danielhogg2005]

I would assume that if Lothian took over the 20 and the 63 running them as Lothian Country routes would be more practical because Ratho, Newbridge, Kirkliston and Queensferry are all in the CityWest zone.

If Lothian took over the 40/X40, would there be any change of increasing the frequency of the routes?

 

[Lothianbus703]

I would assume that if Lothian took over the 20 and the 63 running them as Lothian Country routes would be more practical because Ratho, Newbridge, Kirkliston and Queensferry are all in the CityWest zone.

If Lothian took over the 40/X40, would there be any change of increasing the frequency of the routes?

There would be an increase in price, maybe not frequency

 

[danielhogg2005]

I would like to hope they do increase the frequency of the 40/X40 as well as the 20 and the 63 too as these would be handy services for me.

Also while we are on the subject of the 40/X40, where would the best place be to change from the 40/X40 to a bus to Bonnyrigg?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Also while we are on the subject of the 40/X40, where would the best place be to change from the 40/X40 to a bus to Bonnyrigg?

Old Dalkeith Road or Royal Infirmary, switching to a 46.

 

[JKP]

I would like to hope they do increase the frequency of the 40/X40 as well as the 20 and the 63 too as these would be handy services for me.

Also while we are on the subject of the 40/X40, where would the best place be to change from the 40/X40 to a bus to Bonnyrigg?

As these are tendered routes, I cannot see them being increased in frequency. Councils are financially strapped at present and bus services are sadly nowhere near the top of the list.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Old Dalkeith Road or Royal Infirmary, switching to a 46.

Cheers.

As these are tendered routes, I cannot see them being increased in frequency. Councils are financially strapped at present and bus services are sadly nowhere near the top of the list.

Are companies allowed to run any extra journeys but only at their own cost?

 

[stevenedin]

Cheers.


Are companies allowed to run any extra journeys but only at their own cost?

I’m sure that they can as the old 18 route used to be run at peak times commercially and off peak east council run.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

I think with the current action involving buses 842, 843 and 845 moving to Livingston might be for the rebuild of the West Lothian network.

Why would you move 3 buses to Livingston without a reason of new services? It's not like X18, X27/X28 and 43 need new buses. With 842-845 (no 844) being moved from ECB and LB, its most likely something is happening in West Lothian.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I think with the current action involving buses 842, 843 and 845 moving to Livingston might be for the rebuild of the West Lothian network.

Why would you move 3 buses to Livingston without a reason of new services? It's not like X18, X27/X28 and 43 need new buses. With 842-845 (no 844) being moved from ECB and LB, its most likely something is happening in West Lothian.

I’ve always felt they’ve been short of a few spares since they surrendered some of the ex Londons to Lothian. I do wonder if they’re simply cover or even if it’s just storage out of the way.

 

[stevenedin]

I think with the current action involving buses 842, 843 and 845 moving to Livingston might be for the rebuild of the West Lothian network.

Why would you move 3 buses to Livingston without a reason of new services? It's not like X18, X27/X28 and 43 need new buses. With 842-845 (no 844) being moved from ECB and LB, its most likely something is happening in West Lothian.

It would be nice if it was some expansion or rerouting of some routes to provide more links.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

It would be nice if it was some expansion or rerouting of some routes to provide more links.

I can see X27 being extended to Whitburn in the near future so they are maybe saving buses for said extension.

 

[Ding Ding]

Probably just for consistency since the other LCB routes run out of Livingston also, while I know the 20 and 63 both ran out of Longstone back in the day, I can't imagine they wouldn't run them as Lothian Country routes to keep consistent with the current network, plus I'm sure there was an up cry when then 43 was introduced and the fares were different to the 63.

Those along with the 40/X40 would make good addition to the Lothian network, especially with Ratho having not one but two Lothian services to choose from.

Just a small note on LCB and 40 X40 being a good fit. It would be a disaster if LCB took on this service for one reason, and one reason only, reliability. If there is a breakdown or an accident on the bypass, the whole of the west side of the city grinds to a halt. As this bus goes along this route it frequently gets delayed which puts buses and drivers out of position regarding journeys and breaks

 

[stevenedin]

Just a small note on LCB and 40 X40 being a good fit. It would be a disaster if LCB took on this service for one reason, and one reason only, reliability. If there is a breakdown or an accident on the bypass, the whole of the west side of the city grinds to a halt. As this bus goes along this route it frequently gets delayed which puts buses and drivers out of position regarding journeys and breaks

Potentially it could be operated by Marine or Livingston if they did win the 40/X40. I get what you mean with the bypass but it is surely quicker than travelling through the city.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Potentially it could be operated by Marine or Livingston if they did win the 40/X40. I get what you mean with the bypass but it is surely quicker than travelling through the city.

I do not see why they would run a Marine service into Livingston, as it would mess up with the zones etc. It would obviously be ran by Livingston.

 

[stevenedin]

There is a chance that all West Lothian tendered routes won’t be the same as the current routes as they were doing a review of them.

I am curious to see whether or not Eliburn, Deans North and the new developments at Gilmerton will be part of the revised routes if they do change.

 

[LiviCrazy]

A lot of assumptions being made here that Lothian Country will even win this. I believe Lothian tend to be much more expensive than the smaller operators around West Lothian (some of whom are very good too), I’m also not too sure how good they are at tendering, given how little council routes they’ve picked up in recent years. If they are on the new Framework I can see it more likely that it is for extensions/rerouting of current routes like the council(s) did with Eastern Scottish’s 21 and 23.

I could be completely wrong but I see it more likely that the 40/X40 is more likely to be won by Horsburgh (hope not, but they tend to be cheap for council routes), SD Travel or Prentice Westwood (not sure if they are on the DPS).

From a personal perspective, I’d rather see a smaller operator win it. Big companies are good to a certain perspective, but I think it is also important to keep a strong network of smaller local operators, as they are often better placed to fill the gaps that others can’t, eg SD Travel have managed to keep its council routes running fairly reliably throughout the last few years.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Does anyone know if McGills are not renewing the contract for the 20 and 63?
If not when will they be up for tender?

Does anyone think that Lothian will pick them up and bunch it in the Lothian Country bracket? As it would make sense considering the routes.

I hope Lothian do manage to take the 20 & 63 back. Lothian Buses' Longstone Depot is positioned well for them and generally speaking they provide a nicer vehicle for their services.

The dead mileage from Livingstone to The Gyle or Balerno isn’t great. The mileage to South Queensferry from Livingston probably isn’t much longer than that from Longstone and I’m also guessing there is more chance of Longstone having more drivers than Lothian Country.

I’ve no idea about there Newbridge Depot.

 

[roadierway77]

I hope Lothian do manage to take the 20 & 63 back. Lothian Buses' Longstone Depot is positioned well for them and generally speaking they provide a nicer vehicle for their services.

The dead mileage from Livingstone to The Gyle or Balerno isn’t great. The mileage to South Queensferry from Livingston probably isn’t much longer than that from Longstone and I’m also guessing there is more chance of Longstone having more drivers than Lothian Country.

I’ve no idea about there Newbridge Depot.

Newbridge is only for Lothian Motorcoaches so it'd either be Livingston or Longstone. I'd also like to see the 20 and 63 return to Lothian, as they make more sense geographically as part of the Lothian network and Lothian has always provided a high quality service. The 63 especially needs a new operator as it's currently very unreliable.

On the topic of the 40/X40 - how busy are these routes? I've caught the X40 once between Hermiston and the Infirmary and there was only one other passenger who got off in Gilmerton. I feel the X40 should be cut completely as it hardly serves anywhere of note, especially compared to the 40. Is there really demand for an express service between Livingston, Dedridge, Wilkieston, Hermiston, Gilmerton and the Infirmary? Of course, subsidised services don't always have to be busy if they provide a valuable link, however the 40 already provides the connection between ERI and Livingston, albeit more slowly. In my opinion the X40 is a waste of money and resources - the subsidy provided could be used elsewhere to provide a more useful service to places such as Eliburn and Deans South.

 

[stevenedin]

Newbridge is only for Lothian Motorcoaches so it'd either be Livingston or Longstone. I'd also like to see the 20 and 63 return to Lothian, as they make more sense geographically as part of the Lothian network and Lothian has always provided a high quality service. The 63 especially needs a new operator as it's currently very unreliable.

On the topic of the 40/X40 - how busy are these routes? I've caught the X40 once between Hermiston and the Infirmary and there was only one other passenger who got off in Gilmerton. I feel the X40 should be cut completely as it hardly serves anywhere of note, especially compared to the 40. Is there really demand for an express service between Livingston, Dedridge, Wilkieston, Hermiston, Gilmerton and the Infirmary? Of course, subsidised services don't always have to be busy if they provide a valuable link, however the 40 already provides the connection between ERI and Livingston, albeit more slowly. In my opinion the X40 is a waste of money and resources - the subsidy provided could be used elsewhere to provide a more useful service to places such as Eliburn and Deans South.

The X40 (if it turns up) is very fast if you need to get to the Royal Infirmary (half an hour from Livingston Centre and the single fare priced at £2.50 is a bargain). I agree about the passenger numbers though, I feel like it needs to be advertised and be reliable for people to use it.

I feel like a commercial direct link from Livingston Centre or even the same as now and then onwards to Waterloo Place, Edinburgh but via the fastest way possible would be a better investment and keep the 40 in place to cover the Royal Infirmary.

 

[mb88]

With 842, 843 and 845 transferring, perhaps we might see a modest increase in frequency to the X27/X28 to half hourly each giving a 15 minute service over common sections and giving Calderwood and Kirknewton a half hourly service respectively instead of the current far from ideal 40 minutes. If it were me I’d also reroute the X27 via Deans South instead of Deans North.

 

[LiviCrazy]

With 842, 843 and 845 transferring, perhaps we might see a modest increase in frequency to the X27/X28 to half hourly each giving a 15 minute service over common sections and giving Calderwood and Kirknewton a half hourly service respectively instead of the current far from ideal 40 minutes. If it were me I’d also reroute the X27 via Deans South instead of Deans North.

I think it could also do with one going around Howden if that’s the case like the old First 27/28.

 

[stevenedin]

They could also reroute the X27 after St John’s Hospital up Alderstone Road, Eliburn Road and up to Deans South then it could join the X28 again at Deans North.

 

[overthewater]

X40 and 40 provide direct access for uses between St johns Hospital and Edinburgh Royal, and allows certain interchange points like Gilmerton to benefit, with direct faster links. Its not going anywhere, it was created when Hospital services were moved about NHS Lothian.

I still think IF Lothian were to bid and win it, the service could grow and may will become busier.

 

[roadierway77]

X40 and 40 provide direct access for uses between St johns Hospital and Edinburgh Royal, and allows certain interchange points like Gilmerton to benefit, with direct faster links. Its not going anywhere, it was created when Hospital services were moved about NHS Lothian.

I still think IF Lothian were to bid and win it, the service could grow and may will become busier.

I'm absolutely in favour of easier, better connections, but when the council is strapped for cash, I think resources would be better used providing better local services for Livingston rather than providing an hourly service that very few people use. Cutting the X40 would maintain the link to the Infirmary, while freeing up funds to subsidise new suburban routes to places that don't currently have a bus service. Though I do agree, any operator other than Horsburgh would be beneficial for the 40/X40, considering how decrepit Horsburgh’s fleet is and their separate fare system. It could slot in well with the X27/X28 and the Infirmary hub. I'd maybe put in a call at Straiton P&R to allow connections with the 47, to create an outer orbital service.