Tyne And Wear Metro The Musical

[cdonnigan]

just a stupid idea for those who have seen it what do you think

 

[HST Power]

In short?

I used to love the Metro. When I saw all the people jumping out of the doors singing, I can safely say I hate the Metro!

 

[ainsworth74]

Well it certainly is quite something isn't it? I'm just not sure what it is, strange use of peoples time and money to make that's for sure!

(Here is a link in case anyone hasn't seen it)

 

[Anon Mouse]

Its embarasing and cringewothy. Thank God there is no sound when they show it on a constant loop on the screens at Haymarket. It is horrible!

 

[HST Power]

Certainly very embarrasing. Whenever I'm walking through Monument I can't get it out of my head! Somebody ban this thing!

 

[markydh]

Personally I think it's great. A bit of fun and it also helps advertise the Metro to the masses.

 

[HST Power]

The Metro has enough people, believe me!

 

[Anon Mouse]

Personally I think the Metro is crap and think we would have had a good suburban rail network if the Metro had never been built. Fair enough we might have 142's every 15 mins, but I still think that would have been better!

 

[Royston Vasey]

Appalling waste of the BBC's time and money. And just so embarrassingly poor

 

[cdonnigan]

all these cable thieves and stufff play it non stop in there police cells make them suffer lol

 

[Darandio]

But part of the reason was to raise funds for Children In Need. Whats the problem?

And where does it state BBC money was used?

 

[WestCoast]

Personally I think the Metro is crap and think we would have had a good suburban rail network if the Metro had never been built. Fair enough we might have 142's every 15 mins, but I still think that would have been better!

Why do you think the Metro is so bad? When I was in Newcastle for a few months I used the Tynemouth - City Centre/Jesmond stretch and found it was quite an efficient system. It has its weaknesses (such as the number of 'undesirables' lurking in the evenings) but overall it was pretty good, certainly by UK provincial standards.

Trust me, you really don't want pacers instead! I travel daily on a Northern Rail pacer and while they're fine for a laugh (), using them in peak time is a poor experience.

Regarding the musical, it's a bit of fun for charity. I am not saying I like it but lets not take it too seriously!

 

[Anon Mouse]

Why do you think the Metro is so bad? When I in Newcastle for a few months I used the Tynemouth - City Centre/Jesmond stretch and found it was quite an efficient system. It has its weaknesses (such as the number of 'undesirables' lurking in the evenings) but overall it was pretty good, certainly by UK provincial standards.

Trust me, you really don't want pacers instead! I travel daily on a Northern Rail pacer and while they're fine for a laugh (), using them in peak time is a poor experience.

Regarding the musical, it's a bit of fun for charity. I am not saying I like it but lets not take it too seriously!

I use the metro every day from Haymarket to Central and often for other journeys. Years ago I used to work in Sunderland and therefore travelled on a Pacer almost every day. I am also a Sunderland fan and when we played at Roker Park I used a a Pacer to Sunderland every other week! (I loath Pacers BTW)

I imagine the Metro had a 'wow' factor when it opened as it was the first LRT system in the UK which is something to be proud of, but I feel it is tired and does not provide as good a service as it used to. I blame the Sunderland extension as it was rushed through without any new trains and this has been to the detriment of the original route.

If the Metro had never been built, the North Tyneside Loop and the South Tyneside line would have stayed BR, I only guessed we would have had Pacers, but who knows? Also imagine if it was still BR there would be a possibility of freight and charters and loco hauled extras to destinations on the system, and staffed stations......its also terribly expensive, even if I have free travel from my TOC!

 

[WestCoast]

I imagine the Metro had a 'wow' factor when it opened as it was the first LRT system in the UK which is something to be proud of, but I feel it is tired and does not provide as good a service as it used to. I blame the Sunderland extension as it was rushed through without any new trains and this has been to the detriment of the original route.

If the Metro had never been built, the North Tyneside Loop and the South Tyneside line would have stayed BR, I only guessed we would have had Pacers, but who knows? Also imagine if it was still BR there would be a possibility of freight and charters and loco hauled extras to destinations on the system, and staffed stations......its also terribly expensive, even if I have free travel from my TOC!

I certainly take your point it is looking a little jaded, and is overstretched in terms of rolling stock. But I don't think it's all that expensive, when compared to a system I use a lot, the Manchester Metrolink:-x

If the sections you mention had stayed BR, then they'd most likely be in the hands of Northern Rail by now. Unless NEXUS were willing to pay for staffing, I wouldn't bet on fully-staffed stations....

 

[Anon Mouse]

I certainly take your point it is looking a little jaded, and is overstretched in terms of rolling stock. But I don't think it's all that expensive, when compared to a system I use a lot, the Manchester Metrolink:-x

If the sections you mention had stayed BR, then they'd most likely be in the hands of Northern Rail by now. Unless NEXUS were willing to pay for staffing, I wouldn't bet on fully-staffed stations....

I am sure if the metro had never been built, BR would have got a subsidy from Nexus in a Metrotrain kind of way in West Yorkshire. I am sure certain main stations would have retained ticket offices however I don't know which ones were closed by BR prior to Metro handover. It would also have allowed a Whitley Bay to Wembley Hoolex for the FA Vase Final this year and the last 2 years!

 

[Royston Vasey]

Pre-Metro, fares between Sunderland and Newcastle/Metrocentre were indeed subsidised by TWPTE/Nexus. TWPTE sponsored a number of Class 142s and 143s which received its yellow livery.

There were also at least one or two Class 142s, when refurbished by Northern Spirit, which had the Nexus X design printed/embossed on frosted interior glass panels. I don't think this was common though.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Pre-Metro, fares between Sunderland and Newcastle/Metrocentre were indeed subsidised by TWPTE/Nexus. TWPTE sponsored a number of Class 142s and 143s which received its yellow livery.

There were also at least one or two Class 142s, when refurbished by Northern Spirit, which had the Nexus X design printed/embossed on frosted interior glass panels. I don't think this was common though.

yup you are 100% correct! The 143's looked pretty smart in their TWPTE livery. Also, platform 1 at Newcastle Central had a Metro ticket machine for the Sunderland route!

 

[HST Power]

The Metro has always been very efficient, punctual and worthwhile for me and my wife. Nevertheless, parts of it clearly need working on, and I would like to see trains that call at a variety of stations from the Airport to South Hylton, not just all the stops.

 

[sprinterguy]

Pre-Metro, fares between Sunderland and Newcastle/Metrocentre were indeed subsidised by TWPTE/Nexus. TWPTE sponsored a number of Class 142s and 143s which received its yellow livery.

There were also at least one or two Class 142s, when refurbished by Northern Spirit, which had the Nexus X design printed/embossed on frosted interior glass panels. I don't think this was common though.

Yeah, I think it was only a portion of the handful of units that were painted into Northern Spirit livery (Only 142025/6/50/65/6 received the livery) that got the Nexus logo on the interior glass panels and exterior bodywork. I think 142025 was one of them. I’d like to see PTE, well ITA now, involvement in local rail franchises increased again. The TWPTE sponsored 142s and 143s looked dapper in the yellow, white and blue livery. I miss the all pervading “yellowness” of Tyne and Wear public transport in general that was prevalent when I was growing up.

The core Metro network (The pre-Sunderland extension network) is fantastic, and must have surely helped to revitalise the North and South Tyneside suburban network when it opened in 1980, as the heavy rail diesel operation that preceded it was looking exceedingly jaded and decrepit in its’ final years, both in terms of trains and infrastructure. Light rail operation has meant that regular station stops are possible serving as many communities (or ghettoes in some cases-I’m looking at Percy Main here) as possible without taking up too much time.

I don’t like the Sunderland extension though. There’s only one extra train per hour than what there was before, the journey times are slower and the introduction of the Metro has removed many of the longer distance (i.e. out of the Tyne and Wear area) direct links that were available from the local stations beforehand. Seaham and Hartlepool also now get a worse deal in terms of service frequency than they did before. Plus the Metrocars are not suited to the relatively long distance Sunderland to Newcastle (and beyond) journeys: They ride roughly and have no toilets. The quarter hourly Pacer/Sprinter service was preferable, even if not all of those services stopped at all the intermediate stations. The style of the stations seems cheap, and it just feels like a downgrading of the whole service.

Perhaps those that are older than me and were around for the initial opening of the Metro system feel the same way about the North and South Tyneside Metro system, but the fact that it has been in place since before I was born means that I accept that part of the system.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If the Metro had never been built, the North Tyneside Loop and the South Tyneside line would have stayed BR, I only guessed we would have had Pacers, but who knows? Also imagine if it was still BR there would be a possibility of freight and charters and loco hauled extras to destinations on the system, and staffed stations......its also terribly expensive, even if I have free travel from my TOC!

I would have been happy if first gen DMUs had struggled on through the eighties on the North and South Tyneside suburban network (although this may have furthered the decline of the system too far for it to be resuscitated), until electrification in the early nineties of the entirety of the Tyne and Wear local rail network as a heavy rail project, as a follow on to ECML electrification: This would have covered the North Tyneside loop, South Shields line, the airport branch, and Hartlepool/Sunderland to Gateshead Metrocentre.

A fleet of TWPTE 323s could have been built along with the Centro and GMPTE fleets of these trains to operate the services (Morpeth to Metrocentre trains could also be electric). Wishful thinking I know, but that’s what I would have liked to see. Birminghams’ Cross-city network and West Yorkshires’ suburban routes were electrified around this time, so it’s not completely inconceivable that if not for the TW Metro then a similar Tyne and Wear PTE electrification scheme could, just possibly, have taken place.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I don’t like the Sunderland extension though. There’s only one extra train per hour than what there was before, the journey times are slower and the introduction of the Metro has removed many of the longer distance (i.e. out of the Tyne and Wear area) direct links that were available from the local stations beforehand. Seaham and Hartlepool also now get a worse deal in terms of service frequency than they did before. Plus the Metrocars are not suited to the relatively long distance Sunderland to Newcastle (and beyond) journeys: They ride roughly and have no toilets. The quarter hourly Pacer/Sprinter service was preferable, even if not all of those services stopped at all the intermediate stations. The style of the stations seems cheap, and it just feels like a downgrading of the whole service.

Perhaps those that are older than me and were around for the initial opening of the Metro system feel the same way about the North and South Tyneside Metro system, but the fact that it has been in place since before I was born means that I accept that part of the system.

Yeah I can't agree with you on that. Comparitively few journies were ever from Sunderland "Central" (as its known locally) to Newcastle. Very few people live in Sunderland City Centre. So the change from 2 fast/2 slow to 1 fast/5 slow is well worth the sacrifice. My local station was Seaburn, and the service going from two an hour to five an hour was fantastic. There were times when I used the 142s (156s if we were lucky) to commute to and from Newcastle and the lack of capacity was pitiful. It is a dream now in comparison, and not that much slower. In addition, a commute from Seaburn to, say, Haymarket can be done in one not two journies.

Now with a service five times an hour (and very well patronised, dont believe the Journal or the Chronicle) plus a handful of new stations on the existing line and the new track itself, they have managed to vastly improve the connectivity of those settlements to Newcastle and of course the Airport. It has been fantastic for the whole area, and to suggest that the poorer relations of Tyne and Wear would prefer a packed half hourly Pacer is ridiculous!

One sad thing was the removal of the Sunderland - Liverpool 158s.

Re toilets, most journies are on the stretch Park Lane to Haymarket and over that distance the lack of toilets is not really an issue, even Sunderland to Airport is only 50 minutes, similar to the Monument to the Coast runs. And I find the ride is much better on the smooth NR metals than the Metro tracks!!

You mention out of the region connections which are nice in principle but increasing the amount of intra-region connections is a move which actually has a great deal more benefit. I don't think many people getting on at Seaburn were going to Haltwhistle or Carlisle for example!

 

[sprinterguy]

Yeah I can't agree with you on that. Comparitively few journies were ever from Sunderland "Central" (as its known locally) to Newcastle. Very few people live in Sunderland City Centre. So the change from 2 fast/2 slow to 1 fast/5 slow is well worth the sacrifice. My local station was Seaburn, and the service going from two an hour to five an hour was fantastic. There were times when I used the 142s (156s if we were lucky) to commute to and from Newcastle and the lack of capacity was pitiful. It is a dream now in comparison, and not that much slower. In addition, a commute from Seaburn to, say, Haymarket can be done in one not two journies.

Now with a service five times an hour (and very well patronised, dont believe the Journal or the Chronicle) plus a handful of new stations on the existing line and the new track itself, they have managed to vastly improve the connectivity of those settlements to Newcastle and of course the Airport. It has been fantastic for the whole area, and to suggest that the poorer relations of Tyne and Wear would prefer a packed half hourly Pacer is ridiculous!

One sad thing was the removal of the Sunderland - Liverpool 158s.

Re toilets, most journies are on the stretch Park Lane to Haymarket and over that distance the lack of toilets is not really an issue, even Sunderland to Airport is only 50 minutes, similar to the Monument to the Coast runs. And I find the ride is much better on the smooth NR metals than the Metro tracks!!

You mention out of the region connections which are nice in principle but increasing the amount of intra-region connections is a move which actually has a great deal more benefit. I don't think many people getting on at Seaburn were going to Haltwhistle or Carlisle for example!

My local station was (still is on the occasions when I’m visiting family) Seaburn as well. You’ve produced a very well reasoned set of pros for the Metro extension, which would appear to outweigh my negative points, and I can’t deny that the Metro is well used, and by and large avoids the full and standing situations that were a feature of some of the heavy rail services. I’ll have to (grudgingly) concede that I usually alight at Monument when making Sunderland to Newcastle journeys since the Metro came to Sunderland, although the short walk needed to reach the same location before then was no great inconvenience. I was still happier with the old heavy rail service provision though.

As an aside, did the XX:30 heavy rail services from Sunderland not stop at Seaburn, East Boldon and Brockley Whins as well as the XX:00 departures? I couldn’t remember whether they did or not.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I know what you mean about heavy rail v Metro though - the 156s were a nice "luxury". It was a more pleasant service, but just not as frequent or convenient. And I would say that I do not particularly enjoy the experience of the Metro, they have a certain stink about them!! But the convenience makes up for it for the locals. My parents love it. When I visit though, I get off an HST at Sunderland (still think that has a nice sound to it!) and have to get on the Metro - its always a step down! Especially if I've been in the declassfied TF!

You sounded like a North Tynesider in your post, I apologise for that! I moved away for Uni in 2000 having lived in Fulwell all my life before then.

As an aside, did the XX:30 heavy rail services from Sunderland not stop at Seaburn, East Boldon and Brockley Whins as well as the XX:00 departures? I couldn’t remember whether they did or not.

The XX:00 and XX:30 departures from Sunderland were expresses, the XX:15 and XX:45 (may be a couple of minutes either way but I think it was clockface) were stoppers.

 

[sprinterguy]

You sounded like a North Tynesider in your post, I apologise for that! I moved away for Uni in 2000 having lived in Fulwell all my life before then.

Oh heck, I’ll have to keep a check on that, I can’t be having misunderstandings like that occurring, perish the thought! A Tynesider indeed...

I’m most definitely Mackem, with the same pattern of early life as you, just a couple of years behind: Fulwell born and bred, moved away to Uni, and through what I can only assume to be a fortunate combination of luck and happenstance, I’ve managed to keep myself in jobs and paid work experience enough to avoid having to go back!

I know what you mean about heavy rail v Metro though - the 156s were a nice "luxury". It was a more pleasant service, but just not as frequent or convenient. And I would say that I do not particularly enjoy the experience of the Metro, they have a certain stink about them!! But the convenience makes up for it for the locals. My parents love it. When I visit though, I get off an HST at Sunderland (still think that has a nice sound to it!) and have to get on the Metro - its always a step down! Especially if I've been in the declassfied TF!

Undoubtedly the Metro has much improved the turn up and go ability for the intermediate stations it serves through upping the frequency, which is very important for the majority of passengers, but I can’t warm to it. The Sunderland to Newcastle heavy rail service wasn’t in nearly as decrepit state immediately prior to the coming of the Metro as the Tyneside suburban system appears to have been, so for me there hasn’t been as much of a distinct revitalisation of the service, as in my eyes it wasn’t broken to require fixing in the first place. Feels like a step down to me at any rate, for all the logical perceived benefits. I know others who feel the same as me as well. I’d rather that the Metro had stayed up there on Tyneside where I feel it is of the most use, the Metrocars just don’t feel up to the job of running down the Durham coast route IMO.

It certainly is nice to have HSTs serving Sunderland. Gives me more journey options when I’m travelling up to or down from the north east.

The XX:00 and XX:30 departures from Sunderland were expresses, the XX:15 and XX:45 (may be a couple of minutes either way but I think it was clockface) were stoppers.

Ah, cheers for that. We always used to refer to the XX:00 departures from Sunderland as “the express” but I couldn’t recall using a similar term for the half past departures, so I wasn’t sure if they were fast or not.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Ah, cheers for that. We always used to refer to the XX:00 departures from Sunderland as “the express” but I couldn’t recall using a similar term for the half past departures, so I wasn’t sure if they were fast or not.

I may be wrong but I think both 00 and 30 stopped at Heworth only, but maybe the 00 didn't? I don't know!

 

[sprinterguy]

I may be wrong but I think both 00 and 30 stopped at Heworth only, but maybe the 00 didn't? I don't know!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they all had the Heworth stop.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they all had the Heworth stop.

with the exception of the Transpennines which were non stop. At rush hour the stoppers were every 30mins interlinked with a stopper every 30 mins giving a 15 minuite frequency between Sunderland, Heworth, Newcastle and Metrocentre. Some trains ran express but with a Seaburn stop also at rush hour (according to my old TWPTE LD1 timetable). I will admit the intermediate stations have a better frequency now, but I still think the rail service was better (even if I had to endure a packed 153 on more than one occasian whe I worked in Sunderland). The scope for longer distance journies, the toilet provision was much better before Metro.

The North Tyneside loop (my usual and local line) is very tired, ticketless travel is rife and the fear of crime is rather high for elderly passengers. I am sure the current improvements in the infastructure will improve things, but since the Sunderland extension the frequencies have dropped with the lack of North Shields - St. James and Benton - Pelaw trains, the doubling up of all trains at all times. If the Sunderland extension never happened our service would be much better. The frequencies on a Sunday are terrible also and the timetables on display at the stations never seem to conicide with the actual service.

Another bug bear of mine on the metro are these new automatic announcements which are terrible, especially on the Haymarket announcement where a female voice shrills "Change here for all bus services" and the amount of announcements of this kind are very intrusive. I know its the law, but im sure it could be toned down a little. The information screens on the platforms dont seem to show corrent waiting times and wont show the next train if it has not left the depot causing confusion and panic first thing in the morning. I also find the advertising announcements you sometimes here very irritaing and intrusive.

As I am sure I've already said, the Metro service would be spot on if extra metro cars could have been built to coincide with the Sunderland extension.

 

[HST Power]

I agree about the carriage extensions. The Metro would benefit from more room in the evenings, as would a lot of other train operating companies!

 

[jontylol]

Being only 18 I only have very vague memories of using heavy rail from seaburn before my Mam got a car. It would be nice if any of you guys have photos of seaburn station before it was all 'metroed' to share!

 

[Anon Mouse]

Being only 18 I only have very vague memories of using heavy rail from seaburn before my Mam got a car. It would be nice if any of you guys have photos of seaburn station before it was all 'metroed' to share!

I should have some in the loft if I can find them and scan them! btw your post makes me feel old!

 

[Royston Vasey]

I don't have any pictures. I remember the platforms were rickety wooden planks with gaps between rather than the concrete slabs today!

There's a user on here called Synergyman, his avatar is of an HST at Seaburn on a divert! He hasn't been on for ages though