Delay repay - which TOC?

[karo]

Suppose you want to travel from station A to station C, changing at B. The train from A-B is operated by TOC 1 & the train from B-C is operated by TOC 2.

Your train from A to B is delayed, to the extent where you would have just missed your B-C train, had it left on time.

However the train from B-C is stuck in the station for a while, so you make the connection.

You then arrive at C more than 15 minutes late.

Who is responsible for the delay repay? TOC 1 caused the initial delay, but ultimately it didn't affect your overall delay.

 

[fandroid]

I would go for TOC2 as they were directly responsible for your late arrival.

However if TOC1 ensured you missed your connection and TOC2 cancelled the next available connecting train I would still pin it all on TOC1

 

[Watershed]

I would go for TOC2 as they were directly responsible for your late arrival.

However if TOC1 ensured you missed your connection and TOC2 cancelled the next available connecting train I would still pin it all on TOC1

I would agree. It's one of those arguable grey zones (TOC2 could say that the connection wouldn't have been made without their train being late) but in general, TOC2 would tend to be liable.

Sometimes situations like this, where multiple trains are delayed, TOCs pass claims to each other - but ultimately, as long as the passenger submits a claim in time to a TOC (even if not the correct one), they will get paid.

 

[yorkie]

Suppose you want to travel from station A to station C, changing at B. The train from A-B is operated by TOC 1 & the train from B-C is operated by TOC 2.

Your train from A to B is delayed, to the extent where you would have just missed your B-C train, had it left on time.

However the train from B-C is stuck in the station for a while, so you make the connection.

You then arrive at C more than 15 minutes late.

Who is responsible for the delay repay? TOC 1 caused the initial delay, but ultimately it didn't affect your overall delay.

TOC 2 as you did make the connection.

 

[Hadders]

I agree it should be TOC 2 but in practice it’ll be passed to TOC 1.
To give a personal example:

I recently made a journey from Stevenage to Aberdeen, changing at Doncaster and Edinburgh. The train from SVG to DON was 6 minutes late meaning I had less than the minimum connection time at DON. But it’s a same platform connection and I made the connection.

The train from EDB to ABD was 30 minutes late. I claimed delay repay from Scotrail who rejected the claim and passed it to Scotrail. I appealed the decision pointing out that as I made the connection at DON I considered Scotrail responsible. I’ve not had a reply from Scotrail but in the meantime LNER have paid up!

 

[yorkie]

I agree it should be TOC 2 but in practice it’ll be passed to TOC 1.
To give a personal example:

I recently made a journey from Stevenage to Aberdeen, changing at Doncaster and Edinburgh. The train from SVG to DON was 6 minutes late meaning I had less than the minimum connection time at DON. But it’s a same platform connection and I made the connection.

The train from EDB to ABD was 30 minutes late. I claimed delay repay from Scotrail who rejected the claim and passed it to Scotrail. I appealed the decision pointing out that as I made the connection at DON I considered Scotrail responsible. I’ve not had a reply from Scotrail but in the meantime LNER have paid up!

That's probably because there is a general principle that it is the first TOC who caused a delay should pay up.

Where it gets difficult is if TOC 1's train did make the connection, it's not always obvious to an automated system or someone making a cursory glance at the claim that this happened and that TOC 2 is actually liable in that instance.

 

[317 forever]

I would go for TOC2 as they were directly responsible for your late arrival.

However if TOC1 ensured you missed your connection and TOC2 cancelled the next available connecting train I would still pin it all on TOC1

I met with such an example last year when my GWR reached Cardiff Central 15 minutes late, I missed my TfW train to Barry Island and the following TfW train was cancelled. GWR agreed they were behind my full delay and administered Delay Repay accordingly.

I remember receiving applicable advice on here, and repeat my thanks to those of you who helped me accordingly.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Depends if they both have Delay Repay 15

 

[SuspectUsual]

It’s one of those cases where it might even be clear to the DfT that a centralised delay repay function would be a good idea

 

[yorkie]

It’s one of those cases where it might even be clear to the DfT that a centralised delay repay function would be a good idea

Or let the retailer handle it, as is already the case with refunds, but this is speculative so would require a new thread (I'm sure it's cropped up before ...) Edit: here is thread specifically on that subject: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/delay-repay-should-be-provided-by-retailers.254978/