Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 Stadler FLIRTs

[Dai Corner]

TfW Journeycheck

Due to a fire on a train between Cardiff Queen Street and Caerphilly some lines are blocked.
Impact
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 12:30 21/07.

Apparently the thermal event involved 231003

 

[SuperLuke2334]

TfW Journeycheck


Apparently the thermal event involved 231003

Wasn't actually a fire, it was a problem with the fire systems. Moving the train was proving difficult from what I was told.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

231011 is yet another 231 with a faulty manual PIS. Guard kept cutting in and out. Noticing this a lot.

Cathays has FLIRT stop signs up, so I'm very much hoping the rumours of Pontypridd line getting 756s in the interim while Rhymney Valley is wired and 398s are tested is true.

 

[ABB125]

231011 is yet another 231 with a faulty manual PIS. Guard kept cutting in and out. Noticing this a lot.

Perhaps there's a gate on the mic signal? Was the guard speaking quite quietly?

 

[CapitalStar378]

231011 is yet another 231 with a faulty manual PIS. Guard kept cutting in and out. Noticing this a lot.

Cathays has FLIRT stop signs up, so I'm very much hoping the rumours of Pontypridd line getting 756s in the interim while Rhymney Valley is wired and 398s are tested is true.

It would make sense as there are quite a few 756s with nothing to do apart from proving runs, the wires are live in part and the 398s are some time away.

Also, there wouldn't be stop signs if this wasn't happening.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Also, there wouldn't be stop signs if this wasn't happening.

Well, it might be that they want to make provisions for 756s to work to Radyr in future should they need to cover, although I didn’t think this would be possible once the status of the line has been changed to Light Rail, which according to original TfW plans was pencilled in for November.

 

[AdamWW]

Well, it might be that they want to make provisions for 756s to work to Radyr in future should they need to cover, although I didn’t think this would be possible once the status of the line has been changed to Light Rail, which according to original TfW plans was pencilled in for November.

I realise that Cardiff Queen Street to Cardiff Bay will become inaccessible to anything other than light rail vehicles because of the lack of signalling, but what will prevent 756s from interworking with 398s elsewhere?

It doesn't look as if they're going to change the line to line of site operation.

 

[Peter Sarf]

231011 is yet another 231 with a faulty manual PIS. Guard kept cutting in and out. Noticing this a lot.

Cathays has FLIRT stop signs up, so I'm very much hoping the rumours of Pontypridd line getting 756s in the interim while Rhymney Valley is wired and 398s are tested is true.

It would make sense as there are quite a few 756s with nothing to do apart from proving runs, the wires are live in part and the 398s are some time away.

Also, there wouldn't be stop signs if this wasn't happening.

EDIT - WRONG Surely the FLIRT stop signs have been at Cathays since the 231s started doing the various turns on the Valley lines sometime before February 2023 ?.

I was riding as a passanger in 231008 from Penarth (13:03) up to Rhymney (14:19) and back to Cardiff on 20/02/2023.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Surely the FLIRT stop signs have been at Cathays since the 231s started doing the various turns on the Valley lines sometime before February 2023 ?.

I was riding as a passanger in 231008 from Penarth (13:03) up to Rhymney (14:19) and back to Cardiff on 20/02/2023.

Cathays isn't on the Penarth to Rhymney line, it's between Queen St and Llandaf on the way to Pontypridd. There are also installed at Radyr further along the line from Cathay's.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Cathays isn't on the Penarth to Rhymney line, it's between Queen St and Llandaf on the way to Pontypridd. There are also installed at Radyr further along the line from Cathay's.

My mistake I had Cathays in my head before the junction - geography failure !.

So does that mean the 231s have never been to Pontypridd and beyond ?.

 

[CapitalStar378]

My mistake I had Cathays in my head before the junction - geography failure !.

So does that mean the 231s have never been to Pontypridd and beyond ?.

They have on test runs but not stopping on passenger services, and not via Queen St & Cathays.

 

[Peter Sarf]

They have on test runs but not stopping on passenger services, and not via Queen St & Cathays.

I think the test runs to Pontypridd is what I am vaguely remembering. And so they went via the city line (I mean the line not via Queen Street but round the back of Canton) ?.

 

[56xx]

A 231 has recently been on a test run to Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil with no reported clearance problems. It would seem therefore that an interim use for the 756s is being considered. I think it would be very useful long term to have inter operability on the Taff Vale lines with 398s & 756s.

 

[Signal_Box]

I realise that Cardiff Queen Street to Cardiff Bay will become inaccessible to anything other than light rail vehicles because of the lack of signalling, but what will prevent 756s from interworking with 398s elsewhere?

It doesn't look as if they're going to change the line to line of site operation.

A 231 went to Cardiff bay last Sunday early hours before service started.

There is a plan to put 756 into traffic on batteries proving runs are taking place.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2023 ==

I think the test runs to Pontypridd is what I am vaguely remembering. And so they went via the city line (I mean the line not via Queen Street but round the back of Canton) ?.

Correct, it was driver training as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2023 ==

A 231 has recently been on a test run to Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil with no reported clearance problems. It would seem therefore that an interim use for the 756s is being considered. I think it would be very useful long term to have inter operability on the Taff Vale lines with 398s & 756s.

Stop gap until the trams take over.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The locals doubtlessly won’t be happy when the 398s take over if they use 756s in the interim. Over the current 150s, sure most people will find them a nice modern upgrade, but if they get too used to the FLIRTS I don’t know how well they’ll take to them being suddenly snatched away and trams brought on instead.

 

[Dai Corner]

The locals doubtlessly won’t be happy when the 398s take over if they use 756s in the interim. Over the current 150s, sure most people will find them a nice modern upgrade, but if they get too used to the FLIRTS I don’t know how well they’ll take to them being suddenly snatched away and trams brought on instead.

Especially when they find they have to stand between Cardiff and Pontypridd at peak times.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Especially when they find they have to stand between Cardiff and Pontypridd at peak times.

Not necessarily as 6 car 398s are planned for most services from Cardiff Ctrl I believe. Singles on the Bay route.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Not necessarily as 6 car 398s are planned for most services from Cardiff Ctrl I believe. Singles on the Bay route.

Which awakens the cynic in me. I wonder if they will introduce 398s before establishing if these Stadler units can work in multiple.

 

[Signal_Box]

Not necessarily as 6 car 398s are planned for most services from Cardiff Ctrl I believe. Singles on the Bay route.

Double tram sets with only on conductor, roll on fare evasion at least on the current doubles the guard can walk through, but then again with the doors being taken off the guard the new conductors can swap between sets, let’s hope the driver is switched on and doesn’t leave their clippy on the station !

 

[Anonymous10]

Double tram sets with only on conductor, roll on fare evasion at least on the current doubles the guard can walk through, but then again with the doors being taken off the guard the new conductors can swap between sets, let’s hope the driver is switched on and doesn’t leave their clippy on the station !

Here's to hoping the ring of the bell will still be required

 

[Peter Sarf]

Here's to hoping the ring of the bell will still be required

It will be a fob or something - easy to lose ?.

 

[Signal_Box]

It will be a fob or something - easy to lose ?.

Round your neck on an extendable cord, but breakable for safety ?

I’m fully aware if you want a negative viewpoint on the whole CVL scheme then I’m ya girl, but I do really want our region to have a reliable and affordable transport network honestly I do.

However, the CVL seems like a “network” deigned down to a cost and by a committee who know little about what the real people who will have to the product actually want.

How is it what the people want when passengers are forced to change trains en route to get from the TAM (Treherbert - Aberdare & Merthyr) valleys to get to Barry Island?

Who can honestly say that’s a good idea, and an encouragement for model shift ?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Round your neck on an extendable cord, but breakable for safety ?

I’m fully aware if you want a negative viewpoint on the whole CVL scheme then I’m ya girl, but I do really want our region to have a reliable and affordable transport network honestly I do.

However, the CVL seems like a “network” deigned down to a cost and by a committee who know little about what the real people who will have to the product actually want.

How is it what the people want when passengers are forced to change trains en route to get from the TAM (Treherbert - Aberdare & Merthyr) valleys to get to Barry Island?

Who can honestly say that’s a good idea, and an encouragement for model shift ?

My bold - it was ever thus.

I am pleased new things are coming to the lines round Cardiff. I think they will be improvements but I feel its a mess having non-standard bits of kit mixed in with normal trains like 231s and 756s.

It is not like Croydon tramlink where trams took over closed railway lines and a hopeless railway line with no resulting interworking with normal railway. The on street running in Croydon is a bit of a bind. This easier cheaper way of operating did lead to a tram going round a bend too fast with fatal consequences at Sandilands. But is that any bigger a deal than a bus out of control - only if we want to compare to rail. But we are mixing it with heavy rail here.

It is going to be an obvious when the temporary 231s/756s switch over to 398s and the 231s and 756s go to the routes intended for them. But at least part of the budget has gone on proper trains and not all on trams.

We are at risk off going topic here I am afraid.

 

[craigybagel]

Double tram sets with only on conductor, roll on fare evasion at least on the current doubles the guard can walk through, but then again with the doors being taken off the guard the new conductors can swap between sets, let’s hope the driver is switched on and doesn’t leave their clippy on the station !

No different from the decades of Pacer operation on the routes.

It will be a fob or something - easy to lose ?.

Buzzer code to indicate to the driver the guard is onboard and they're free to carry out the door close process.

How is it what the people want when passengers are forced to change trains en route to get from the TAM (Treherbert - Aberdare & Merthyr) valleys to get to Barry Island?

Who can honestly say that’s a good idea, and an encouragement for model shift ?

Outside of Summer Saturdays, how many people in the Valleys actually want to go through to Barry Island? I would have thought Cardiff Bay would be a much more popular service, which is what is being provided. Along with a big frequency upgrade.

 

[Signal_Box]

My bold - it was ever thus.

I am pleased new things are coming to the lines round Cardiff. I think they will be improvements but I feel its a mess having non-standard bits of kit mixed in with normal trains like 231s and 756s.

It is not like Croydon tramlink where trams took over closed railway lines and a hopeless railway line with no resulting interworking with normal railway. The on street running in Croydon is a bit of a bind. This easier cheaper way of operating did lead to a tram going round a bend too fast with fatal consequences at Sandilands. But is that any bigger a deal than a bus out of control - only if we want to compare to rail. But we are mixing it with heavy rail here.

It is going to be an obvious when the temporary 231s/756s switch over to 398s and the 231s and 756s go to the routes intended for them. But at least part of the budget has gone on proper trains and not all on trams.

We are at risk off going topic here I am afraid.

Potentially off thread, but it’s all interlinked. The trams required a new depot at great expense, a new signalling centre at great expense both of which existed in Cardiff.

Unnecessary additional cost has been inflicted on us the Welsh taxpayers for generations to come in the form of non standard fleets of trains all of which require their own training plans etc.

One standard platform potentially the Flirt with internal specifications to suit the traffic flows would of been much more cost effective long term.

But we are where we, and will suffer as a result.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2023 ==

No different from the decades of Pacer operation on the routes.

Buzzer code to indicate to the driver the guard is onboard and they're free to carry out the door close process.

Outside of Summer Saturdays, how many people in the Valleys actually want to go through to Barry Island? I would have thought Cardiff Bay would be a much more popular service, which is what is being provided. Along with a big frequency upgrade.

Granted, but the driver is expecting to hear two distinct bread in buzzes.

The people of the valleys generally aren’t attracted to the activities in the Bay Area, their more attracted to the beach at Barry.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The single diagram needed to form the second train per hour on Sundays between Cardiff Central and Pontypridd is a pair of 153s. One of the Rhymneys is also a 150. There's hardly any service on a Sunday. Why two pairs of Sprinters?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Well, it might be that they want to make provisions for 756s to work to Radyr in future should they need to cover, although I didn’t think this would be possible once the status of the line has been changed to Light Rail, which according to original TfW plans was pencilled in for November.

I wasn't aware that any part of the existing TfW network was intended to become Light-Rail other than between Cardiff Bay and Cardiff Queen Street. It should therefore still be possible for FLIRTs to deputise for the 398s everywhere other than the Cardiff Bay branch. Am I wrong?

Potentially off thread, but it’s all interlinked. The trams required a new depot at great expense, a new signalling centre at great expense both of which existed in Cardiff.

Unnecessary additional cost has been inflicted on us the Welsh taxpayers for generations to come in the form of non standard fleets of trains all of which require their own training plans etc.

While I feel the current phase of Metro is flawed in some respects, I disagree that the new depot is an unnecessary expense. Future phases (such as the plans already in development for an extension beyond Cardiff Bay towards Roath Dock) will hopefully include more on-street running and the 398s (and their depot) will then be essential.

 

[Signal_Box]

I wasn't aware that any part of the existing TfW network was intended to become Light-Rail other than between Cardiff Bay and Cardiff Queen Street. It should therefore still be possible for FLIRTs to deputise for the 398s everywhere other than the Cardiff Bay branch. Am I wrong?

While I feel the current phase of Metro is flawed in some respects, I disagree that the new depot is an unnecessary expense. Future phases (such as the plans already in development for an extension beyond Cardiff Bay towards Roath Dock) will hopefully include more on-street running and the 398s (and their depot) will then be essential.

Broken record time….I really can’t see any more “on street running” Manchester style in my lifetime.

I’m all for a proper Manchester or Nottingham style tram running to proper interchanges at the Bay, Queen Street and Central but not this worst of both worlds concept we’re now stuck with.

 

[St. Paddy]

756105/106/107 moved from Dollands More to Ripple Lane this afternoon by 92019 with 66002

 

[Peter Sarf]

756105/106/107 moved from Dollands More to Ripple Lane this afternoon by 92019 with 66002

66002 should take them on to Cardiff then.