Pacers on the mainline on Tuesday 18th July

[Wyrleybart]

Why would be there third rail inside the four foot?

I'm still not 100% on what you are saying. Do you mean that Merseyrail has third rail on an up and down running line for example. But where there is a crossover there isn't third rail and they coast over it?

I am wondering if he is confusing 4 foot with 6 foot.
Just to clarify - double track railways have a cess on the left. The "fourfoot" is the gap between the running rails and the "sixfoot" is the gap between one track and the other.

BR 3rd rail has a third rail alternately on the cess side and the six foot side.

The London underground has fourth rail DC which has the 4th rail placed between the two running rails and therefore within the "fourfoot"

 

[Geeves]

Of course one thing to consider is management at the time were 100% against any 142s coming into service on the southern area, so take that as you will with regards to "issues" with 142s on 3rd rail lines. The same "issues" kept 142s off the Clitheroe line for decades but in the end all it was was paperwork.

There's nothing on a 142 that hangs any lower than any other unit otherwise it would be an issue everywhere they ran in the past. Hunts Cross for example was never an issue for 35 years

 

[507 001]

At junctions on the Southern region, there are sections of raised third rail inside the four foot.

Where?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2023 ==

The London underground has fourth rail DC which has the 4th rail placed between the two running rails and therefore within the "fourfoot"

And even their ‘3rd rail’ (positive rail??) is exactly the same as BR’s 3rd rail.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The old "Pacers can't run on third rail lines" myth comes up a lot, and even if it comes up another thousand times more it'll still be a myth.

 

[Vespa]

I have also heard of some quite serious incidents involving Pacers on the 3rd rail at Southport.

What happened at Southport ?

 

[Intercity110]

getting us back on track here, have the paths appeared yet

 

[pokemonsuper9]

getting us back on track here, have the paths appeared yet

Realtime Trains | 5Z42 0947 Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) to Crewe H.S. | 18/07/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z42 0947 departure from Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) to Crewe H.S. on 18/07/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The RTT service in question.
I don't think we'll see many pacers on the mainline, so this may be a nice chance for people near the route to see it.

The path has been around since the start of this thread, since it is what caused it.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The old "Pacers can't run on third rail lines" myth comes up a lot, and even if it comes up another thousand times more it'll still be a myth.

You are right. Just remind us how LSL's class 142s got to Eastleigh in the first place ? That fact seems not to have been mentioned so far

 

[warwickshire]

You are right. Just remind us how LSL's class 142s got to Eastleigh in the first place ? That fact seems not to have been mentioned so far

Rembering on they went between April 2020 and June 2020 in lockdown ex Gascoigne Wood via Chesterfield, Barnt Green, Cheltenham Spa, Bristol Parkway, Westbury, then on to Eastleigh.
142003 got moved I think 13th April 2020.
From Gasgoine Wood. Solo.
100 per cent it moved around then.
However 142003 last had for haulage with 142029 both solo. December 2019.
Manchester picc to Chester via Altrincham.
Ie last Wednesday of timetable .However 142003. Survived all day on the line, due to no fuel on 150136. Prior to working 1003 Chester to Manchester pic.
Believe above was one of its final days on Northern before its move to Gasgoine Wood. December 2020.
Before its move once more to Eastleigh, during covid 19 ie 13th April 2020.
Again solo.

.

 

[VWRO2]

Third rail in the 4 foot? Where?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Was the point maybe that where you have a turnout, the diverging route could have a short section of juice rail inside the 4ft for the ‘straight ahead’ route? Although usually that would be positioned on the off side of the turnout (But not always.)

I’ve certainly heard the 14x vs 3rd rail ‘myth’ from inside the industry, the explanation was that a set bouncing on its suspension to the limit of tolerances could in theory foul the third rail in exceptional circumstances, in a similar way that long-swing-link Mk3 bogies could do the same.

 

[SouthernOne]

@basingstoke

 

[pdeaves]

@basingstoke

That looks interesting! On the right hand vehicle, there's the 'BR' logo and number; just to the left of them, roughly mid body side, there appears to be some other text. Any idea what that might be, please? It looks a bit like 'safety' but I doubt it really does.

 

[Spartacus]

That looks interesting! On the right hand vehicle, there's the 'BR' logo and number; just to the left of them, roughly mid body side, there appears to be some other text. Any idea what that might be, please? It looks a bit like 'safety' but I doubt it really does.

All I can see is the bodyside grill.

 

[Ash Bridge]

All I can see is the bodyside grill.

Me too.

 

[pdeaves]

All I can see is the bodyside grill.

Me too.

Oh, is that a grille? (Adjusts glasses, squints at screen). OK, the light reflected on bits of it looked like lettering to me, sorry!

 

[Ash Bridge]

Oh, is that a grille? (Adjusts glasses, squints at screen). OK, the light reflected on bits of it looked like lettering to me, sorry!

Can be seen a little more clearly here.

 

[pdeaves]

Can be seen a little more clearly here.

Thanks. I never knew there was any grille there before now!

 

[Mothman11]

142003 at Banbury.

 

[m79900]

Is 007 still at Eastleigh?

 

[Neptune]

I’d like to see what they’ve done inside the unit. It looks like they’ve at least repainted it as it’s back to cream from light blue.

Of course 003 was one of the Oldham 5 which kept its original layout and got the bare bones Serco refresh. Will be interesting to see if they’ve sourced the original brown/beige/blue seat covers and parcels area internal doors.

 

[fgwrich]

Is 007 still at Eastleigh?

Yes, it’ll probably be next in line for CET fitment.

I’d like to see what they’ve done inside the unit. It looks like they’ve at least repainted it as it’s back to cream from light blue.

Of course 003 was one of the Oldham 5 which kept its original layout and got the bare bones Serco refresh. Will be interesting to see if they’ve sourced the original brown/beige/blue seat covers and parcels area internal doors.

Although it had a bare bones refresh, Northern did replace the flooring inside it so it won’t have the original brown treadmaster linoleum. But the interior has been repainted from lilac to beige / cream with new ‘original’ seat covers visible.

 

[Neptune]

Although it had a bare bones refresh, Northern did replace the flooring inside it so it won’t have the original brown treadmaster linoleum. But the interior has been repainted from lilac to beige / cream with new ‘original’ seat covers visible.

Thanks. I’m looking forward to seeing how it looks.

 

[childwallblues]

Passed me at Solihull spot on time. It was good to see a Pacer on the move again after travelling thousands of miles on them in the Liverpool area.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes, it’ll probably be next in line for CET fitment.



Although it had a bare bones refresh, Northern did replace the flooring inside it so it won’t have the original brown treadmaster linoleum. But the interior has been repainted from lilac to beige / cream with new ‘original’ seat covers visible.

Sounds like they've managed pretty well to get it as close to original condition as is practical. The original four-leaf doors would look better, but given how unreliable they were it probably isn't worth putting them back even if a set could be sourced.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Sounds like they've managed pretty well to get it as close to original condition as is practical. The original four-leaf doors would look better, but given how unreliable they were it probably isn't worth putting them back even if a set could be sourced.

Maybe paint an vertical orange, edged in black stripe down the glass in the doors is the best you could achieve

 

[Neptune]

When the 2 leaf doors were fitted to units which were still in as built liveries they were left in unpainted yellow so to do that would be authentic.

 

[M60lad]

Just out of interest could the old style doors have been retrofitted to the unit or would it involve too much modification for them to be refitted?

Not remembering them in service with four leaf doors I don't actually know what modifications were done to them to have the 2 leaf doors fitted.

 

[Neptune]

Just out of interest could the old style doors have been retrofitted to the unit or would it involve too much modification for them to be refitted?

Not remembering them in service with four leaf doors I don't actually know what modifications were done to them to have the 2 leaf doors fitted.

It would take quite a lot of modification but also would probably mean the brakes coming on everytime another train goes past at speed due to loss of interlock.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Just out of interest could the old style doors have been retrofitted to the unit or would it involve too much modification for them to be refitted?

Not remembering them in service with four leaf doors I don't actually know what modifications were done to them to have the 2 leaf doors fitted.

I think it is one of the many many many modificational improvements to traction and rolling stock that you just would not consider reversing. doors, radiators, power units, braking systems etc. In the case of the 142s don't forget they were built with cable brakes, SCG gearboxes and the aforementioned 4 leaf doors. Those features have been changed out. Look at what was done to the DRS Brush type 4s (inc 57s). Those Serck radiator shutters were replaced blah di blah.

In fact, there is only one traction "improvement" that I can think of which has been reversed - the phasing gear in the power unit of Peak D4, which has reverted the loco to it's original engine sound.