Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[Railperf]

GA are always near the top for on time arrivals. Are the regionals getting full now given the big uplift in seats available

We keep pointing out that the GEML timetable - based on timings for older & slower trains - is slack enough for most trains to be able to coast around and easily keep time. Of course being an intensively used two track railway - any serious incident - infrastructure related or train breakdown - causes bad delays.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2023 ==

Absolutely. The Norwich to Sheringham, Cambridge & East Suffolk routes excel. I cannot speak for Ipswich/Cambridge but from what I witness it’s very buoyant.

the 755's have transformed the regional services. Just the service frequency lets it down. Would be good to see half-hourly frequency. And a speed up - where possible from 75mph to 90mph top speeds.
The two hourly Peterboro - Ipswich service frequency is ridiculously poor. A faster more frequent service would probably tempt more people onto those trains.

 

[dk1]

the 755's have transformed the regional services. Just the service frequency lets it down. Would be good to see half-hourly frequency. And a speed up - were possible from 75mph to 90mph top speeds.
The two hourly Peterboro - Ipswich service frequency is ridiculously poor. A faster more frequent service would probably tempt more people onto those trains.

Agreed but no uplift seems in sight sadly. I travel across the country & really notice what a class act GA are now in comparison. Even down to the community partnership which gives us some outstanding unmanned stations which are so loved and cared for.

 

[306024]

Agreed but no uplift seems in sight sadly. I travel across the country & really notice what a class act GA are now in comparison. Even down to the community partnership which gives us some outstanding unmanned stations which are so loved and cared for.

Indeed, we perhaps don't realise how lucky we are in this part of the country. As for crying out for a more efficient timetable, be careful what you wish for. The current timetable wasn't arrived at by chance, and the connectivity of the current GEML timetable in particular is pretty good. Who really cares if we are waiting an extra minute at stations if it means the timetable is more resilient to odd minute delays. That's how Swiss railways work and no one criticises them.

 

[Energy]

Agreed but no uplift seems in sight sadly. I travel across the country & really notice what a class act GA are now in comparison. Even down to the community partnership which gives us some outstanding unmanned stations which are so loved and cared for.

When I travelled on a 755 a couple of weeks ago GA really stood out as what a really good regional operator is. The stations were all great and RTT had the train as early.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Indeed, we perhaps don't realise how lucky we are in this part of the country. As for crying out for a more efficient timetable, be careful what you wish for. The current timetable wasn't arrived at by chance, and the connectivity of the current GEML timetable in particular is pretty good. Who really cares if we are waiting an extra minute at stations if it means the timetable is more resilient to odd minute delays. That's how Swiss railways work and no one criticises them.

Yeah but two-hourly is poor outside of Sundays

 

[Adrian1980uk]

We keep pointing out that the GEML timetable - based on timings for older & slower trains - is slack enough for most trains to be able to coast around and easily keep time. Of course being an intensively used two track railway - any serious incident - infrastructure related or train breakdown - causes bad delays.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2023 ==


the 755's have transformed the regional services. Just the service frequency lets it down. Would be good to see half-hourly frequency. And a speed up - where possible from 75mph to 90mph top speeds.
The two hourly Peterboro - Ipswich service frequency is ridiculously poor. A faster more frequent service would probably tempt more people onto those trains.

No possibility of uplifts in services to Peterborough and Cambridge until Ely junction is upgraded. Honestly there could be a lot of expansion on Norwich to Cambridge service if frequency could be improved especially now it goes to Stansted as well

Half hour to Yarmouth and maybe Cromer but not sure infrastructure can cope without big upgrades.

 

[dk1]

No possibility of uplifts in services to Peterborough and Cambridge until Ely junction is upgraded. Honestly there could be a lot of expansion on Norwich to Cambridge service if frequency could be improved especially now it goes to Stansted as well

Half hour to Yarmouth and maybe Cromer but not sure infrastructure can cope without big upgrades.

North Walsham is about the best you’ll get on half hourly. Beyond that doesn’t lend itself to any enhancement.

 

[306024]

There appears to be some disconnect between a service being the first service on which off-peak tickets are valid from Liverpool Street and having a train with reduced capacity running it.

Is there a better out and back diagram from Norwich the 755s could go out on?

There is only one other Norwich to Norwich diagram, and that does other key peak trains. The need to cycle units off the Stansted services reduces your options. The senior train planners have been there for years, so they know what's what, but can only work with the tools they are given.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2023 ==

Yeah but two-hourly is poor outside of Sundays

If you mean Ipswich - Peterborough, well yes, but it's not for the want of trying.

 

[dk1]

Yeah but two-hourly is poor outside of Sundays

Sundays can be the busiest day on the Peterborough route but regardless of that there’s no immediate solution to any higher frequency.

 

[Class 170101]

North Walsham is about the best you’ll get on half hourly. Beyond that doesn’t lend itself to any enhancement.

I believe you can get to Cromer but thats it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s a busy little operation again helped by the excellent reliability & new fleet. I live on one of the regional routes which has been transformed & is unrecognisable from 4-5 years ago.

Don’t you drive them as well?

 

[dk1]

I believe you can get to Cromer but thats it.

Not with a half hourly service you can’t.

 

[Purple Train]

What is the 13.00 Liverpool St-Norwich booked for, please?

 

[dk1]

What is the 13.00 Liverpool St-Norwich booked for, please?

745

 

[Purple Train]

745

Thank you very much

 

[dk1]

Thank you very much

Neh bother mate.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Don’t you drive them as well?

That maybe the case but it doesn't take away from what statistics say. As attested in this very thread, they're not perfect but if you ever look at on time arrivals and low cancellations, GA are near the top

 

[saxsux]

I travelled on 3x755s from Liverpool St the other day. It wasn't too crowded and was definitely preferable to have tables!

By coincidence, I bumped into a GA manager on a train the other day. They said it's fundamentally been agreed that the Stansted 745's will all soon have tables fitted (although adding first class and a buffet seemed less likely, so they will still be a distinct subclass). Apparently the ROSCO is very supportive of the work as it increases the potential value of the 745's in future.

The big idea is this should improve the service for intercity passengers. Potentially more 720's will be used for Stansted to free up 745's for the intercity route.

(Apologies if not the right thread - the 745 thread is locked)

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I travelled on 3x755s from Liverpool St the other day. It wasn't too crowded and was definitely preferable to have tables!

By coincidence, I bumped into a GA manager on a train the other day. They said it's fundamentally been agreed that the Stansted 745's will all soon have tables fitted (although adding first class and a buffet seemed less likely, so they will still be a distinct subclass). Apparently the ROSCO is very supportive of the work as it increases the potential value of the 745's in future.

The big idea is this should improve the service for intercity passengers. Potentially more 720's will be used for Stansted to free up 745's for the intercity route.

(Apologies if not the right thread - the 745 thread is locked)

I would query as to whether it solves anything or just makes matters worse, the intercity routes might get a slight improvement if you say the stansted exp 745s with tables are better than the 755s, still no buffet or first class so still an inconsistent product. This comes at making the stansted express product more inconsistent as well.

I would personally argue it's not worth doing unless you are going to retrofit first and buffet. I'm sure others might disagree but I think whatever GA do, other than ordering approx 4 more units, 2 for ic and 2 for Stan express, the issue of not enough 745s will remain and it'll always be like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[dk1]

I would query as to whether it solves anything or just makes matters worse, the intercity routes might get a slight improvement if you say the stansted exp 745s with tables are better than the 755s, still no buffet or first class so still an inconsistent product. This comes at making the stansted express product more inconsistent as well.

I would personally argue it's not worth doing unless you are going to retrofit first and buffet. I'm sure others might disagree but I think whatever GA do, other than ordering approx 4 more units, 2 for ic and 2 for Stan express, the issue of not enough 745s will remain and it'll always be like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I have to disagree with you. Most punters gripe on the Norwich route is the table allocation. First yes gets its attention but as long as properly allocated seems to have been accepted. Catering whether it be cafe bar or trolley (or both) is provided regardless on the GEML anyway. Just get 720s as the staple diet on the StanEx with maybe more racks for luggage & jobs a good’en.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I have to disagree with you. Most punters gripe on the Norwich route is the table allocation. First yes gets its attention but as long as properly allocated seems to have been accepted. Catering whether it be cafe bar or trolley (or both) is provided regardless on the GEML anyway. Just get 720s as the staple diet on the StanEx with maybe more racks for luggage & jobs a good’en.

I accept it's an are where we are solution and if you kitted out the 720s in Stansted express layout rather than commuter, it's the best that can be done practically. I personally don't use first generally but I am concerned that if not managed properly, it could easily become victim of 'I'm not going to buy first because it's pot luck if I get it' and then a spiral to not bothering with it and not commercially viable, same with the buffet bar.

 

[306024]

…….. it could easily become victim of 'I'm not going to buy first because it's pot luck if I get it' and then a spiral to not bothering with it and not commercially viable ……..

Already has to some degree. I know a couple of former first class season ticket holders that only buy standard now and upgrade if lucky enough to get a 745 with first. Train I travelled on last Monday had just seven of us in first when it would have been nearly full with a Mk3 set pre Covid.

The whole inconsistent product thing is a real obstacle to effective marketing. I feel sorry for the conductors too who are constantly having to apologise for ‘the wrong type of train’.

 

[RuddA]

Train I travelled on last Monday had just seven of us in first when it would have been nearly full with a Mk3 set pre Covid.

But is that just the change of train, or a result of covid and changes in travel?

 

[306024]

But is that just the change of train, or a result of covid and changes in travel?

All of the above combined. Bargain first class fares used to be offered to fill spare spaces but would be more trouble than it’s worth with todays offering.

 

[RailWonderer]

Already has to some degree. I know a couple of former first class season ticket holders that only buy standard now and upgrade if lucky enough to get a 745 with first. Train I travelled on last Monday had just seven of us in first when it would have been nearly full with a Mk3 set pre Covid.

The whole inconsistent product thing is a real obstacle to effective marketing. I feel sorry for the conductors too who are constantly having to apologise for ‘the wrong type of train’.

GA sabotaged themselves of a good revenue source by not speccing all 745s with first class.

I have to disagree with you. Most punters gripe on the Norwich route is the table allocation. First yes gets its attention but as long as properly allocated seems to have been accepted. Catering whether it be cafe bar or trolley (or both) is provided regardless on the GEML anyway. Just get 720s as the staple diet on the StanEx with maybe more racks for luggage & jobs a good’en.

I agree, although a buffet should have been fitted to a few more units than 10, hence another 2-4 745/0s needed, a trolley is good enough for some of these services.

Also it's not only the lack of tables that are the worst consequence, but the loss of revenue for a lack of first class on all 745s as well.

 

[dk1]

GA sabotaged themselves of a good revenue source by not speccing all 745s with first class.

I agree, although a buffet should have been fitted to a few more units than 10, hence another 2-4 745/0s needed, a trolley is good enough for some of these services.

Also it's not only the lack of tables that are the worst consequence, but the loss of revenue for a lack of first class on all 745s as well.

Agreed but unfortunately that’s all water under the bridge now. All this was stated by staff before construction even started.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2023 ==

There are small incremental ways to make improvements but whether the tight fisted DfT will put their short hands into their deep pockets is another matter.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Agreed but unfortunately that’s all water under the bridge now. All this was stated by staff before construction even started.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2023 ==

There are small incremental ways to make improvements but whether the tight fisted DfT will put their short hands into their deep pockets is another matter.

But surely the ROSCO would pay if they could order more with GA paying over a long period of increased leasing costs, obviously the final bill will be GAs and therefore the DfT but I would assume GA would have a to pay directly for any refurbishment as it's not in the ROSCOs interest as they have the contract.

 

[dk1]

But surely the ROSCO would pay if they could order more with GA paying over a long period of increased leasing costs, obviously the final bill will be GAs and therefore the DfT but I would assume GA would have a to pay directly for any refurbishment as it's not in the ROSCOs interest as they have the contract.

Can’t see Rock Rail or whoever it is paying. Will need to be DfT as change of plan.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Any change to a DfT TOC ROSCO contract has to be approved by the DfT - no exceptions.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Can’t see Rock Rail or whoever it is paying. Will need to be DfT as change of plan.

That's probably the case unless GA/DfT actually ordered more units - that kinda what I'm saying, additional units to address the shortage, Rock Rail would probably pay for short term with GA paying in leasing costs, refurb or alteration would be a direct cost for GA now. The issue with ordering more is the excess of 720s available and nowhere to sub lease them to.