Job dilemma - ticket office closures

[Beamer]

I have a huge dilemma. Last week I verbally accepted the job of Customer sales assistant at a GWR station. Now of course, I learn of ticket office closures which was, as I understand it, the main part of the job. My medical is scheduled for Friday and I still intend to go. I was really looking forward to this job but now of course, I am wondering how long it will last. I am about to leave a company I have been with for over 30 years as I am extremely fed up there. The basic salary is the same but am I making a huge mistake given today’s news?

 

[skyhigh]

Last week I verbally accepted the job of Customer sales assistant at a GWR station. Now of course, I learn of ticket office closures which was, as I understand it, the main part of the job.

While they were announced today, TOCs will have been aware of the plans for a while now. So if they've offered you a permanent contract for the role it would suggest they see a future in your position - if not they simply would have left the position vacant or given a temporary contract.

On the flip side, there will probably be quite a lot of upheaval and change in the coming months - more strikes, changes to conditions etc so it might not end up as the same job you applied for.

 

[Towers]

You’ll most likely end up working at the same location, on similar money, but doing a multi skilled role; so customer service around the station, possibly gateline and perhaps dispatch if the location features these, and providing ‘customer assistance’ functions for those travellers with disabilities or other needs. All in all a varied job and still well worth going for I’d have thought!

 

[Beamer]

Thank you for your replies. I feel at little more at ease now!

 

[Patters1983]

Hi

From the rumours I’ve heard within, the offices may close but I think the roles will be similar to what Tfl on the underground do, so you might be on the main concourse with an iPad or tablet assisting customers along with any other things that they may ask of you.

 

[Mabs]

Hi

From the rumours I’ve heard within, the offices may close but I think the roles will be similar to what Tfl on the underground do, so you might be on the main concourse with an iPad or tablet assisting customers along with any other things that they may ask of you.

Except over 10k less pay standing in the freezing cold temperature. In the underground its not as cold and can use the glap with heaters.

 

[Beamer]

I have received my contract offer but I am still undecided. Does anybody know what the compulsory redundancy agreement is for GWR staff? By that I mean by which date are no compulsory redundancies guaranteed until?

 

[winks]

I would say sign the contract, 100% !

As you are technically being employed on the old terms and conditions and not on the new “Multi Skilled Station Grade”.

Of course you salary will be pay protected (probably higher pay range then the new payscales being proposed)

Do it now !

 

[LCC106]

To add, I would also recommend contacting HR to explain your concerns and seek reassurance. Was talking to a manager who had two new starters today and wasn’t sure they would turn up! Nothing is set in stone yet. Different TOC though.

 

[Roger1973]

From the perspective of someone who's not employed by the railways...

Ultimately, no job is more permanent than the notice period, and as far as UK employment law is concerned, there's very limited protection from unfair dismissal and no entitlement to redundancy pay if you're sacked / made redundant within the first two years of a job (you are protected from day one on equalities law, e.g. race / sex discrimination and the like.)

The question about 'no compulsory redundancies' is a valid one, which someone more directly knowledgeable may be able to answer.

One on hand, the fact they are (if I've read it right) offering you a permanent contract is encouraging - some TOC's seem just to have left vacant ticket office posts unfilled for some time now, and I've seen others advertising on a 12 month fixed term contract basis.

But having said that, even if there's a 'no compulsory redundancies' clause, what are the options with a TOC employer if a particular role at a particular location is redundant - what 'alternative employment' in terms of job role, pay level, shift pattern and location would a TOC have to offer? (again, I hope others may know more than me.) Is there a risk that any 'alternative' they offered might not be acceptable to you?

Is the 'pay protection' referred to one where you stay on existing grade and get inflation pay rises? Or the sort where you stay on the same cash amount until inflation means the pay grade for your new job overtakes it? And is it limited to X amount of time? (I've never personally been on it, but the latter is how it's worked in places I've been at where it has been a thing.)

30+ years is a long time with one organisation - how secure is current job however fed up you are? (or if it's not that secure, is there a chance of redundancy any time soon? 30 years' service would mean a good redundancy pay deal) and what are the respective pension schemes like? are you in a line of work you would be able to go back to (even if not with current employer) if this goes pear shaped? If you've been in current role that long, then you must at least be in your late 40s - from personal experience, some employers / potential employers are not keen on older workers (yes i know age discrimination is illegal, but some employers haven't really taken the race discrimination laws seriously yet and they have been on the books 50 years.)

While I've asked a lot of questions, I'm not expecting you to answer any of it on here, just putting it as questions you might want to ask yourself.

Best of luck, whichever way you decide to go.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It could be worth checking the length of the contract being offered. Hopefully it’s a permanent one but I have heard of two year contracts.

 

[Haywain]

Does anybody know what the compulsory redundancy agreement is for GWR staff?

It will match the statutory minimum that has to be offered. Nothing to get excited about, especially if you only have a short period of service.

 

[Egg Centric]

How long have you hated your current job/employer? Are you seeing the sales assistant job as the aim of your career or the beginning?

 

[father_jack]

It could be worth checking the length of the contract being offered. Hopefully it’s a permanent one but I have heard of two year contracts.

I know someone with 20 years service at GWR whose current role is 12 months fixed contract only. In theory their job will be readvertised after the 12 months with unless the manager hates them or favours someone else the contract being "renewed" as them being the successful applicant. All GWR station roles were cut to 12 month contracts a few years back with no advice to the trade union of the matter and a subsequent "fail to agree" at the Joint Stations Divisional Council

Can I ask where the job is and is it Customer Sales "ASSISTANT" or Customer Sales "ADVISOR" ? There's a big difference and latter job has been has been "conveniently" mis-advertised by unscrupulous managers to save money.

CS Assistant (Other)	£23796.00 pa​
CS Assistant (Didcot)	£24250.00 pa​
CS Assistant (Reading)	£25923.00 pa​
CS Assistant (Paddington)	£28010.00 pa​
CS Advisor (Other)	£27918.00 pa​
CS Advisor (Didcot)	£28453.00 pa​
CS Advisor (Reading)	£30768.00 pa​
CS Advisor (Paddington)	£33477.00 pa​

It will match the statutory minimum that has to be offered. Nothing to get excited about, especially if you only have a short period of service.

Someone looked it up and statutory redundancy was giving them circa £15 thousand for just over 20 years aged in their fifties.

One on hand, the fact they are (if I've read it right) offering you a permanent contract is encouraging - some TOC's seem just to have left vacant ticket office posts unfilled for some time now, and I've seen others advertising on a 12 month fixed term contract basis.

Believe it or not there are GWR locations with chronic shortstaffing and overtime fatigue as well a lot of pressure of work given the increase in footfall that apparently isn't happening. Muddies the industrial relations waters a lot but it goes unreported due to it not suiting the current industry narrative.

 

[Haywain]

Someone looked it up and statutory redundancy was giving them circa £15 thousand for just over 20 years aged in their fifties.

Indeed. Not much, is it? And it relates to how much you earn. I wouldn't (and didn't) get excited about it.

 

[Beamer]

Thank you for all your replies, they have genuinely helped.

I know someone with 20 years service at GWR whose current role is 12 months fixed contract only. In theory their job will be readvertised after the 12 months with unless the manager hates them or favours someone else the contract being "renewed" as them being the successful applicant. All GWR station roles were cut to 12 month contracts a few years back with no advice to the trade union of the matter and a subsequent "fail to agree" at the Joint Stations Divisional Council

Can I ask where the job is and is it Customer Sales "ASSISTANT" or Customer Sales "ADVISOR" ? There's a big difference and latter job has been has been "conveniently" mis-advertised by unscrupulous managers to save money.

​

CS Assistant (Other)	£23796.00 pa​
CS Assistant (Didcot)	£24250.00 pa​
CS Assistant (Reading)	£25923.00 pa​
CS Assistant (Paddington)	£28010.00 pa​
CS Advisor (Other)	£27918.00 pa​
CS Advisor (Didcot)	£28453.00 pa​
CS Advisor (Reading)	£30768.00 pa​
CS Advisor (Paddington)	£33477.00 pa​

Someone looked it up and statutory redundancy was giving them circa £15 thousand for just over 20 years aged in their fifties.


Believe it or not there are GWR locations with chronic shortstaffing and overtime fatigue as well a lot of pressure of work given the increase in footfall that apparently isn't happening. Muddies the industrial relations waters a lot but it goes unreported due to it not suiting the current industry narrative.

The job title is definitely Customer Sales Advisor. It’s at Worcestershire Parkway.

It could be worth checking the length of the contract being offered. Hopefully it’s a permanent one but I have heard of two year contracts.

It’s a permanent contract.

From the perspective of someone who's not employed by the railways...

Ultimately, no job is more permanent than the notice period, and as far as UK employment law is concerned, there's very limited protection from unfair dismissal and no entitlement to redundancy pay if you're sacked / made redundant within the first two years of a job (you are protected from day one on equalities law, e.g. race / sex discrimination and the like.)

The question about 'no compulsory redundancies' is a valid one, which someone more directly knowledgeable may be able to answer.

One on hand, the fact they are (if I've read it right) offering you a permanent contract is encouraging - some TOC's seem just to have left vacant ticket office posts unfilled for some time now, and I've seen others advertising on a 12 month fixed term contract basis.

But having said that, even if there's a 'no compulsory redundancies' clause, what are the options with a TOC employer if a particular role at a particular location is redundant - what 'alternative employment' in terms of job role, pay level, shift pattern and location would a TOC have to offer? (again, I hope others may know more than me.) Is there a risk that any 'alternative' they offered might not be acceptable to you?

Is the 'pay protection' referred to one where you stay on existing grade and get inflation pay rises? Or the sort where you stay on the same cash amount until inflation means the pay grade for your new job overtakes it? And is it limited to X amount of time? (I've never personally been on it, but the latter is how it's worked in places I've been at where it has been a thing.)

30+ years is a long time with one organisation - how secure is current job however fed up you are? (or if it's not that secure, is there a chance of redundancy any time soon? 30 years' service would mean a good redundancy pay deal) and what are the respective pension schemes like? are you in a line of work you would be able to go back to (even if not with current employer) if this goes pear shaped? If you've been in current role that long, then you must at least be in your late 40s - from personal experience, some employers / potential employers are not keen on older workers (yes i know age discrimination is illegal, but some employers haven't really taken the race discrimination laws seriously yet and they have been on the books 50 years.)

While I've asked a lot of questions, I'm not expecting you to answer any of it on here, just putting it as questions you might want to ask yourself.

Best of luck, whichever way you decide to go.

I have worked for Royal Mail since I was 16, I am now 47. I never set out to be one of those people that stays in one place their whole lives, it just seems to have gone that way.
Although I regard myself as quite fit the job does take its toll and I can’t imagine doing the job into my 60’s. My absence record is very good but over the last few years I have suffered with back, neck, ankle and most recently shoulder problems. To be clear, I’m way off anything like ill health retirement but I think it might get me in my 50’s when I still need to work but nobody would likely take me on.
I would love them to offer me redundancy but I don’t think that’s coming any time soon. I do think that as I have been in delivery a long time, that Kind of job would be something to fall back on if this went wrong.

How long have you hated your current job/employer? Are you seeing the sales assistant job as the aim of your career or the beginning?

I have been fed up there for a long time but you just get on with it. The changes now are constant though. In the office I work in the start and finish times are being pushed back by almost an hour and a half. That means I won’t be able to pick the kids up from school in the week. That means paying for after school club or getting my elderly parents to help us out even more. As for Saturday’s, that just becomes a normal working day.
At least by taking this job I can balance things out a bit more with the shifts. I think I have to work something like 1 in 4 Sunday’s which I don’t mind, it’ll boost the wages up.

 

[throwaway1989]

This is an interesting thread for me personally, as I've been in my role a couple of months, however I have recently seen a document that shows these new proposals wish to reduce my station's establishment, so I'm a little nervous about the fact that I'm still firmly in my 6 month probationary period.

I have left a secure (and funnily enough, better paid) job for this current one and now I'm unsure if I've made a mistake. If they need to make cuts I am probably one of the cheapest candidates to lose (no redundancy pay to speak of, easy to just say I'm no longer needed etc).

That said, in your case I can't see why they would have recruited you if they didn't need the staff so I would probably agree with Winks as you could potentially be securing a better grade of pay before they change it to a more simple banding structure.

 

[Beamer]

This is an interesting thread for me personally, as I've been in my role a couple of months, however I have recently seen a document that shows these new proposals wish to reduce my station's establishment, so I'm a little nervous about the fact that I'm still firmly in my 6 month probationary period.

I have left a secure (and funnily enough, better paid) job for this current one and now I'm unsure if I've made a mistake. If they need to make cuts I am probably one of the cheapest candidates to lose (no redundancy pay to speak of, easy to just say I'm no longer needed etc).

That said, in your case I can't see why they would have recruited you if they didn't need the staff so I would probably agree with Winks as you could potentially be securing a better grade of pay before they change it to a more simple banding structure.

I had that very concern, being let go during or at the end of my 6 month probation. I spoke to someone in recruitment yesterday who eased my mind a little on that. They said it wouldn’t work like that and something would have to go pretty spectacularly wrong to not be taken on after the probation period had ended. At the moment I don’t think redundancy works on a last in first out basis which is why I’d like to know when the current agreement on no compulsory redundancy’s ends.

 

[father_jack]

Well done on the job OP. I did however think Worcestershire Parkway came under ex Thames Train "S" grading and lower pay. RMT wanted "CSA" ex FGW grading and the company were saying no but they must have got it through. Check the pay rate equals what's listed there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2023 ==

I had that very concern, being let go during or at the end of my 6 month probation. I spoke to someone in recruitment yesterday who eased my mind a little on that. They said it wouldn’t work like that and something would have to go pretty spectacularly wrong to not be taken on after the probation period had ended. At the moment I don’t think redundancy works on a last in first out basis which is why I’d like to know when the current agreement on no compulsory redundancy’s ends.

It's all up in the air, Dec 24 is being mentioned as end of no compulsory redundancy. I trust you will join a union and not the one that is "Too Scared to Say Anything"..........

The possibility of being dismissed during probation is very low, only if say you'd lied about something during your application or interview. As far as when established in the role, it would take either "pinching or drinking" (as a colleague always says) to lose your job. Be fair with people- managers, staff and customers alike and you'll do fine.

 

[Beamer]

Well done on the job OP. I did however think Worcestershire Parkway came under ex Thames Train "S" grading and lower pay. RMT wanted "CSA" ex FGW grading and the company were saying no but they must have got it through. Check the pay rate equals what's listed there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2023 ==


It's all up in the air, Dec 24 is being mentioned as end of no compulsory redundancy. I trust you will join a union and not the one that is "Too Scared to Say Anything"..........

The possibility of being dismissed during probation is very low, only if say you'd lied about something during your application or interview. As far as when established in the role, it would take either "pinching or drinking" (as a colleague always says) to lose your job. Be fair with people- managers, staff and customers alike and you'll do fine.

The salary stated on my contract is £25784pa. That is pretty much the same as my basic salary now. Although a new pay deal has just been pushed through. Someone I spoke to in recruitment said that salary may change if and when the RMT negotiates a new pay deal but obviously couldn’t give me any guarantees.
Is there a particular union I should be joining? RMT are always the ones in the media but how do you know which one you should join and how do you join? When I started at Royal Mail a union rep came to give us a talk and gave us the forms while we were on our induction talk. Relations weren’t as hostile then!

 

[Haywain]

Is there a particular union I should be joining?

Given the state of things at the moment, it probably depends on how much you like going on strike. Having said that, your options may be restricted by the levels of membership/representation for the are you work in.

 

[father_jack]

S6 Ticket Office (M) (All Others)

£25784.00 pa​

That's not a CSA job it's the above. Different terms and conditions, ex Thames Trains.

Join the RMT, it will bring security because it only takes a maverick manager to take a personal dislike to you or to side with a customer when you've done nothing wrong.

https://join.rmt.org.uk/app/#/welcome

Direct debit is preferred to paybill deduction these days, means the company doesn't know who's a member !!!

 

[Beamer]

S6 Ticket Office (M) (All Others)

£25784.00 pa​

That's not a CSA job it's the above. Different terms and conditions, ex Thames Trains.

Join the RMT, it will bring security because it only takes a maverick manager to take a personal dislike to you or to side with a customer when you've done nothing wrong.

https://join.rmt.org.uk/app/#/welcome

Direct debit is preferred to paybill deduction these days, means the company doesn't know who's a member !!!

Thanks for that, I’ll join as soon as I’m on the payroll.
Should I be worried about it being an S grade job? I’m sorry, I don’t really understand the abbreviations and terminology if I’m honest.

 

[father_jack]

Thanks for that, I’ll join as soon as I’m on the payroll.
Should I be worried about it being an S grade job? I’m sorry, I don’t really understand the abbreviations and terminology if I’m honest.

Not much of a big deal, the restructuring promised by the company after Thames/FGW LINK, Wessex and FGW mainline merged in 2006 never got finished. Bigger difference to ex Wessex who still get less in some roles although I may be incorrect.

 

[Beamer]

Not much of a big deal, the restructuring promised by the company after Thames/FGW LINK, Wessex and FGW mainline merged in 2006 never got finished. Bigger difference to ex Wessex who still get less in some roles although I may be incorrect.

Is there much chance to progress and go for other roles once you’re in the rail industry? It’s one of the main reasons for me taking the job to be honest. I was told that once my probation period is over I can go for any internal jobs that are advertised.

 

[father_jack]

Is there much chance to progress and go for other roles once you’re in the rail industry? It’s one of the main reasons for me taking the job to be honest. I was told that once my probation period is over I can go for any internal jobs that are advertised.

Oh definitely but it would be traincrew or driving really, retail and even stations are looking doubtful. There's a GWR depot in Shrub Hill nowadays which should be of great benefit to you.

 

[Beamer]

Oh definitely but it would be traincrew or driving really, retail and even stations are looking doubtful. There's a GWR depot in Shrub Hill nowadays which should be of great benefit to you.

Thanks for that. Might be a daft question but do you get to see jobs at other train companies? My wife’s friend started on the buffet car with GWR about 5 years ago. She is now a senior conductor on West Midlands trains. I wondered if you get the chance to see vacancies elsewhere pop up?

 

[father_jack]

Thanks for that. Might be a daft question but do you get to see jobs at other train companies? My wife’s friend started on the buffet car with GWR about 5 years ago. She is now a senior conductor on West Midlands trains. I wondered if you get the chance to see vacancies elsewhere pop up?

We get internal vacancy list every week. There's no provision for lateral transfers between First Group companies but I know a few people who have moved "easily" to say SWR, it's same owning group so maybe a clean record could open Avanti or maybe Lumo to you. TPE now isn't connected.

 

[Mabs]

Is there much chance to progress and go for other roles once you’re in the rail industry? It’s one of the main reasons for me taking the job to be honest. I was told that once my probation period is over I can go for any internal jobs that are advertised.

Railway isn't as good as it used to be. Its heavily underfunded.

 

[LCC106]

Are subs not deducted before tax when going through payroll? Far better paid that way if so. Your manager won’t know if you’re in a union unless there comes a point when you need representation or you go on strike.

Also, if there is an option not to pay into the political fund on the application form I’d tick the box personally.