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Remaining Effects of Covid

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nw1

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So, Britain must prepare for longer and harder lockdowns, according to Matt Hancock.

Just three words to say to that:-

NO, NO, NO

I'd like to see Hancock engage with a few questions, such as those below:

Did lockdown really save large numbers of lives? Or would voluntary isolation for the vulnerable have done much the same job?

Has lockdown caused more health problems than it purportedly prevented?

Was it acceptable to completely close dentists and restrict access to GPs for months?

Was the damage to the NHS that has occurred post-Covid (can't get a doctor's appointment, dentists abandoning NHS services) an acceptable price to pay? Was it caused primarily by lockdown or have there been there other causes?

Is lockdown the prime cause of the cost-of-living crisis and other economic problems at the moment?

Why was lockdown used in this case, when it was not used in any pandemic of the 20th century?
 
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nw1

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The one thing that may prevent the normalising of lockdowns is the sheer cost of them.
I'd hope that is the case but my only fear is that the politicians who make the rules will not be directly affected by the cost of them.

Popular opinion (far more questioning of lockdown as an effective approach, with negatives possibly outweighing positives) may well play a part in any future situation, though.
 
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VauxhallandI

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I'd hope that is the case but my only fear is that the politicians who make the rules will not be directly affected by the cost of them.

Popular opinion (far more questioning of lockdown as an effective approach, with negatives possibly outweighing positives) may well play a part in any future situation, though.
And some of them actively prospered from them too
 

yorkie

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So, Britain must prepare for longer and harder lockdowns, according to Matt Hancock.

Just three words to say to that:-

NO, NO, NO


Hancock is completely deluded; even Australia couldn't manage it!

From the article:

The former health secretary told the inquiry: “The central failing that hampered the UK’s response, common with the rest of the western world, was the refusal and the explicit decision that it would not be possible to halt the spread of a new pandemic.
“That is wrong and that is at the centre of the failure of preparation. I know that because I was the person responsible as the category one responder when this pandemic struck and all of the other considerations are small, important but small, compared to the colossal scale of failure in the assumption that it will not be possible, and the lack of ambition in the assumption that you can’t stop the spread of a disease. We can.”

The only way to have potentially stopped Sars-CoV-2 becoming endemic globally would have been if it had been identified (or admitted by China that it had been identified) early on, when it first jumped to humans, if - and this is a big if - it was not already too transmissable by that time to be stopped and if it had not already been transmitted to too many other people. In other words, it had to have been caught really really early on.

A less transmissible virus could potentially be eliminated after being found at a later stage, as was the case with Sars-CoV-1, but ultimately Sars-CoV-2 was just too fit/transmissible to be eliminated.

Therefore, there was no way that we could have halted the spread; the arrogance to think that the UK of all places could do it, when even Australia couldn't, is utterly absurd.

Hanock is not only lacking in intelligence but he is also a very hypocritical individual who lacks any form of integrity.

This inquiry must not be swayed by the opinions of people like Hancock; he will forever be considered to be disgraced. He is widely disliked, by people of all sides; and justifiably so. Whatever reputation he had pre-2020 is utterly in tatters. I don't think I've met anyone - on any side - who would say he either did a good job or that he should be listened to.

Does anyone here support Hancock or give any credence to anything he says? If so, you are entitled to your opinions but I really doubt anyone does. And no, I am not living in a bubble; even people who have polar opposite opinions on the pandemic to me dislike him!
 

156421

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It's possible for ordinary people (not politicians/quangos/etc.) to submit data to the inquiry - not sure it will serve much purpose https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/every-story-matters/

My suspicion is some small shaded sidebars on some of the pages of a main report, featuring stories of carefully selected people who are meant to give the report a feeling of "vox populi vox dei", but in fact are simply regurgitating the regime narrative.
 

MikeWM

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After today, healthy unvaccinated people *cannot* get the covid vaccines, whether they want to or not!

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/covid...g-a-1st-and-2nd-dose-of-the-covid-19-vaccine/
If you have not had your 1st or 2nd dose of the COVID-19 vaccine yet, the last date you'll be able to get vaccinated is 30 June 2023.
...
After 30 June 2023, you can only get a vaccination if you're at increased risk from COVID-19. In most cases, you'll have to wait until the autumn.
(not clear from that sentence whether 'in the autumn' this will be an option for all again, or only for those at 'increased risk').

What a interesting turnaround from just 18 months ago, when mandatory vaccination was being seriously discussed...

I recall posting on here a number of times saying that 'if I change my mind, I can always jump from unvaccinated group to the vaccinated group' - appears that wasn't entirely correct. I suppose I could wake up tomorrow morning with a deep feeling of regret at missing out - but I suspect not 8-)

I'm not sure what people who want to travel to the handful of countries that are still requiring vaccination for entry are supposed to do if they suddenly discover a need to travel to one of those countries - but there's not a lot of those countries left now, fortunately, so maybe no-one has thought about that.
 

yorkie

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I doubt anyone can have avoided exposure to Sars-CoV-2 by this point, so any further vaccinations are going to be pretty pointless for almost everyone (there may be exceptions for people who are particularly vulnerable and whose immune systems may need more regular exposure to the spike protein, but I am not sure there is a strong case even for that).
 

westv

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Face masks now seem to be mainly a fashion accessory for those attending court.
 

Segedunum

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Or the bad boy teenagers on bikes around our way
A bus driver went past me last week wearing a mask/snood with someone else's smiling face on.

Naturally he's free to wear a mask if he wants but the choice does raise a few eyebrows.
 

island

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The long court backlog means many COVID rule violations are only making their way to court now. A great many FPNs were issued to under-25s – 48% of all those issued in England and Wales, despite 18-24 year olds making up only 8% of the population. In many cases the slow-turning wheels of the law meant FPNs and court documents went to term-time addresses and cases were heard, and defendants convicted, in their absence.

A student from Bradford owed over £2,000 once various non-payment surcharges were added but managed to convince the magistrates court to reopen the case whereupon the prosecution promptly withdrew it as not in the public interest.

A special clause in the law extends the usual 6 month limit for prosecuting summary-only cases to 3 years for COVID violations.

This data is an extract of this Sunday Times article. You will be able to open this link and read it without paywall for 7 days or until after a certain number of people have opened it.


Is it now time for an amnesty and to drop all outstanding cases? Or would this be unfair to those who paid?
 

Bletchleyite

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Is it now time for an amnesty and to drop all outstanding cases? Or would this be unfair to those who paid?

There should not be an amnesty unless all (including Boris) are refunded.

I think I would say what should happen is that anyone who has had it escalated for administrative reasons should have it reduced back to the original penalty, and any previous ones that escalated refunded back to the original sum.
 

Crossover

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BBC article on the rise of type 1 diabetes since covid
I read this with particular interest as I was diagnosed with diabetes, initially around 5 months after having had Covid (aged 32). Treated initially as Type 2, it was later updated to LADA (Latent autoimmune diabetes of adults), a late onset form of Type 1, but only after I pushed for more tests. Maybe I was predisposed to it (though no immediate family are T1) - it is unclear
 

Peter Mugridge

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They should all be dropped or refunded immediately. With apologies attached.
100% this.

Given that a report was published recently which demonstrated that lockdowns did more harm than good, it would be ridiculously petty for the government to do anything other than dropping all the cases and striking out those that have already been tried.
 

danm14

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I think I would say what should happen is that anyone who has had it escalated for administrative reasons should have it reduced back to the original penalty, and any previous ones that escalated refunded back to the original sum.
The big issue with this is that in many cases, the "original sum" is £10,000.
 

Bletchleyite

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The big issue with this is that in many cases, the "original sum" is £10,000.

Only for serious repeat offenders. And in the end, you don't have to like the law, you have to follow it. Debates about whether something should be the law or not are entirely separate.

I might think it should be permitted to drive at 100mph on the motorway (I don't, but I could for the purposes of this), but even if that were a majority opinion it doesn't mean it should necessarily be allowed and all previous tickets refunded and bans rescinded. I certainly think railway ticketing legislation needs repealing, but similarly that doesn't mean I don't have to follow it for now.

I think it's grossly unfair that things have escalated with e.g. some students due to administrative issues, though, which is why I said what I did.
 

island

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Only for serious repeat offenders.
Wrong – several offences such as holding large house parties had fines starting at £10,000, and large four figure fines also applied for breaches such as failing or refusing to book into a quarantine hotel.
 

danm14

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Wrong – several offences such as holding large house parties had fines starting at £10,000, and large four figure fines also applied for breaches such as failing or refusing to book into a quarantine hotel.
And of course, the other major injustice with such fines was that those who were rich enough (or perhaps more accurately for students issued them for hosting house parties, whose parents were rich enough) to fork up well over a third of the average annual wage within 28 days were spared a criminal record - while those who could not were/will be summonsed to court and given one.
 

Snow1964

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The thread with passenger numbers since pandemic has been locked even though DfT are still producing the updates, so posting here.

DfT has just put latest update on line

Sat 10 June 97% of pre pandemic
11 Jun 97%
12 Jun 97%
13 Jun 98%
14 Jun 97%
15 Jun 97%
16 Jun 98%
17 Jun 99%
18 Jun 99%
19 Jun 99%
20 Jun 99%
21 Jun 100%
22 Jun 100%
23 Jun 96%
24 Jun 95%
25 Jun 95%
26 Jun 95%
27 Jun 95%
28 Jun 99%
29 Jun 99%
30 Jun 103%
01 Jul 104%
02 Jul 104%

Fair to say volumes, if not travel patterns back to normal

 

Blindtraveler

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I don't know how much longer the DFT will be able to hush up the fact that even weekday travel patterns certainly in the southeast and I know many other places as well are back to pre-pandemic also, yesterday which was a Tuesday I traveled from Hayes and harlington to Chatham via Ealing Broadway and London canon Street and volumes on all modes including the 12 car crowd buster on the 1744 Dover priory working were more like 2019 than 2021
 

westv

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I don't know how much longer the DFT will be able to hush up the fact that even weekday travel patterns certainly in the southeast and I know many other places as well are back to pre-pandemic also, yesterday which was a Tuesday I traveled from Hayes and harlington to Chatham via Ealing Broadway and London canon Street and volumes on all modes including the 12 car crowd buster on the 1744 Dover priory working were more like 2019 than 2021
I think it's Mondays and Fridays that remain lower.
 

Blindtraveler

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Mondays I wouldn't disagree with but Fridays I think I would now, I am quite often out and about on a Friday and it all feels very much pre-pandemic to me
 

yorksrob

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The thread with passenger numbers since pandemic has been locked even though DfT are still producing the updates, so posting here.

DfT has just put latest update on line

Sat 10 June 97% of pre pandemic
11 Jun 97%
12 Jun 97%
13 Jun 98%
14 Jun 97%
15 Jun 97%
16 Jun 98%
17 Jun 99%
18 Jun 99%
19 Jun 99%
20 Jun 99%
21 Jun 100%
22 Jun 100%
23 Jun 96%
24 Jun 95%
25 Jun 95%
26 Jun 95%
27 Jun 95%
28 Jun 99%
29 Jun 99%
30 Jun 103%
01 Jul 104%
02 Jul 104%

Fair to say volumes, if not travel patterns back to normal


Will the Government be trumpeting these figures and the success of the industry in recovering passenger numbers ? No chance.
 

Mag_seven

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But its not numbers its revenue that's the issue! Lots more people travelling on "cheap" tickets will not make up for the full price business meeting tickets that have now been largely lost to Zoom forever.
 
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