Leave train early on an advance ticket?

[kacper]

Hi. If you have an advanced single would it be fine if you exited the train before your destination and abandoned the rest of the journey on that ticket? Or would the barrier not allow that?

Apologies if already asked before

 

[mikeg]

Unfortunately not permitted.

 

[kacper]

Unfortunately not permitted.

Thank you

 

[hexagon789]

Hi. If you have an advanced single would it be fine if you exited the train before your destination and abandoned the rest of the journey on that ticket? Or would the barrier not allow that?

Apologies if already asked before

Starting or finishing short is not allowed on Advances.

 

[Watershed]

What you are suggesting is a form of what is known as 'break of journey' (BoJ). BoJ is not permitted on Advance tickets, and it's likely that the barriers at any intermediate station wouldn't work with your Advance ticket.

The penalty for breaking your journey where not permitted to do so is to have to pay the difference between the cost of your Advance, and the cost of the cheapest walk-up ticket that would be valid for your journey and allows BoJ. Depending on the circumstances, this could vary from being a small amount to rather a lot.

That penalty is very rarely applied, though, particularly since the industry guidance is not to charge anything - unless there is clear evidence that the BoJ was done to avoid paying a higher intermediate fare. Most gateline staff would be pragmatic if you asked them if you could just pop out to buy something/have a smoke, or even if you simply told them you weren't feeling well and didn't want to continue.

 

[kacper]

What you are suggesting is a form of what is known as 'break of journey' (BoJ). BoJ is not permitted on Advance tickets, and it's likely that the barriers at any intermediate station wouldn't work with your Advance ticket.

The penalty for breaking your journey where not permitted to do so is to have to pay the difference between the cost of your Advance, and the cost of the cheapest walk-up ticket that would be valid for your journey and allows BoJ. Depending on the circumstances, this could vary from being a small amount to rather a lot.

That penalty is very rarely applied, though, particularly since the industry guidance is not to charge anything - unless there is clear evidence that the BoJ was done to avoid paying a higher intermediate fare. Most gateline staff would be pragmatic if you asked them if you could just pop out to buy something/have a smoke, or even if you simply told them you weren't feeling well and didn't want to continue.

So the break of journey is only permitted if you have a ticket that doesn’t enforce you to a specific service?

 

[miklcct]

Unfortunately not permitted.

Will it change if there is a disruption? If there is a disruption I may want to abandon my journey and seek alternative transport (if available) to reach my destination.

 

[hexagon789]

So the break of journey is only permitted if you have a ticket that doesn’t enforce you to a specific service?

Yes, a flexible so-called 'walk-up' ticket.

You save money on advances in return for a lack of flexibility; for that flexibility - you pay more essentially.

 

[mikeg]

More or less, although some flexible tickets can have break of journey restrictions in the time restriction code.

 

[kacper]

Yes, a flexible so-called 'walk-up' ticket.

You save money on advances in return for a lack of flexibility; for that flexibility - you pay more essentially.

Ah, i understand now. thank you

 

[hexagon789]

More or less, although some flexible tickets can have break of journey restrictions in the time restriction code.

Very true of course, but given the complexity and variations involved, I was trying to simplify a wee bit.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Tat penalty is very rarely applied, though, particularly since the industry guidance is not to charge anything - unless there is clear evidence that the BoJ was done to avoid paying a higher intermediate fare.

To give a specific example:

Chiltern would be unlikely to object to someone holding a Marylebone to Birmingham Advance alighting at Solihull, as the fare would likely have been the same to both at the time of purchase.

They would, however, probably object to someone with an Advance from Marylebone to Oxford alighting at Bicester Village, as they don't offer Advances for that journey.

 

[Hadders]

Although starting/finishing short with an Advance ticket is not strictly in accordance with the rules for Advance tickets, the policy of the Rail industry is that no additional fare should be charged (unless there is clear evidence of intent to try and avoid a higher fare).

 

[Trackman]

............, the policy of the Rail industry is that no additional fare should be charged (unless there is clear evidence of intent to try and avoid a higher fare).

This is very true.

I've done it once (stopping short) but I asked for permission first and asked if I needed to pay an excess, I was just waved on - the ticket gate accepted my ticket anwyay.

 

[spag23]

If the desired break is quite near the final destination, you could always travel to that final destination and bounce back on a new ticket. But you'd need to balance the extra cost and time involved against the Advance saving.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Of course if the station where you alight short of the booked destination doesn't have barriers then there shouldn't be any problem.

Just last Friday, travelling on advance singles from Manchester to Merthyr Tydfil my family and I alighted at Abergavenny and got a bus home from there so as to avoid the disruption that day due to a landslip north of Abercynon.

 

[Starmill]

Of course if the station where you alight short of the booked destination doesn't have barriers then there shouldn't be any problem.

Just last Friday, travelling on advance singles from Manchester to Merthyr Tydfil my family and I alighted at Abergavenny and got a bus home from there so as to avoid the disruption that day due to a landslip north of Abercynon.

To be fair if the train you're booked on is no longer running, it's quite different. The train operator can't insist you travel on a service that no longer exists.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

To be fair if the train you're booked on is no longer running, it's quite different. The train operator can't insist you travel on a service that no longer exists.

But there was a replacement bus service provided due to the landslip.

I have actually done what I've outlined before even when there's been no disruption. The point I was making was if there's no barriers (or staff) at the station there wouldn't be any problem.

 

[Starmill]

But there was a replacement bus service provided due to the landslip.

Yes there is, but really nothing turns on this. If your booked service is cancelled, you may arrange your own alternative, at your own cost. You can't be forced to use the one provided.

I have actually done what I've outlined before even when there's been no disruption.

What people are saying isn't that you can't or shouldn't do this, though. It's that you may only do this by relying on the goodwill of the operator. In this situation, that goodwill will nearly always be sufficient. In other situations it may or may not be. You aren't entitled to take this option.

 

[ScotTrains]

Some booking sites allow you to request changing trains at any station you want. Depending on the station, this may result in having to exit the barriers to get to a different platform or in some cases even a different station.

 

[Sonic1234]

Cross-London Advance tickets are one such case where they have to let you through and no one will know if you disappear into London rather than get the tube to connect with the next train.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

What people are saying isn't that you can't or shouldn't do this, though. It's that you may only do this by relying on the goodwill of the operator. In this situation, that goodwill will nearly always be sufficient. In other situations it may or may not be. You aren't entitled to take this option.

No, I know that. I was only trying to the make the point - which I repeat - that if the station where you finish your journey early has no barriers or staff there wouldn't be any problem.

 

[JonathanH]

Cross-London Advance tickets are one such case where they have to let you through and no one will know if you disappear into London rather than get the tube to connect with the next train.

Yes, especially since they can't yet be issued as e-tickets.

 

[xotGD]

There was a well-publicised case a few years back of a chap with a ticket from King's Cross to Durham. While he was on the train his wife phoned him to say she was in Darlo, so could pick him up at the station there. He baled at Darlo, but when he got to the ticket barrier and it rejected his ticket he was hossed £££££ for a new ticket.

 

[Haywain]

There was a well-publicised case a few years back of a chap with a ticket from King's Cross to Durham. While he was on the train his wife phoned him to say she was in Darlo, so could pick him up at the station there. He baled at Darlo, but when he got to the ticket barrier and it rejected his ticket he was hossed £££££ for a new ticket.

That was something like 15 years ago and resulted in the current guidance as to how such situations should be treated.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There was a well-publicised case a few years back of a chap with a ticket from King's Cross to Durham. While he was on the train his wife phoned him to say she was in Darlo, so could pick him up at the station there. He baled at Darlo, but when he got to the ticket barrier and it rejected his ticket he was hossed £££££ for a new ticket.

That was something like 15 years ago and resulted in the current guidance as to how such situations should be treated.

Back in 2010 and discussed here...

Professor slapped with £155 railway fine for getting OFF the train one stop early.

Here we go again. The Daily Mail - Champion of the People !!!!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315587/Professor-slapped-155-railway-fine-getting-OFF-train-stop-early.html A professor who got off his train one stop before the destination on his ticket was ordered to pay a £155...

www.railforums.co.uk

The TOC in question (East Coast) eventually dropped the matter, as a "goodwill gesture" (or something like that).

 

[Watershed]

Back in 2010 and discussed here...

Professor slapped with £155 railway fine for getting OFF the train one stop early.

Here we go again. The Daily Mail - Champion of the People !!!!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315587/Professor-slapped-155-railway-fine-getting-OFF-train-stop-early.html A professor who got off his train one stop before the destination on his ticket was ordered to pay a £155...

www.railforums.co.uk

The TOC in question (East Coast) eventually dropped the matter, as a "goodwill gesture" (or something like that).

This incident led to industry guidance being adopted, which advised operators not to penalise passengers unless it was obvious that there was an intention to avoid payment of a higher intermediate fare.

 

[trainophile]

No, I know that. I was only trying to the make the point - which I repeat - that if the station where you finish your journey early has no barriers or staff there wouldn't be any problem.

Unless you got really unlucky and encountered a RPI blockade on exiting the train!

 

[Starmill]

No, I know that. I was only trying to the make the point - which I repeat - that if the station where you finish your journey early has no barriers or staff there wouldn't be any problem.

You can't say ahead of time there won't be staff checking tickets at a station though. Just because there usually aren't...

 

[Silenos]

It nonetheless underlines the Alice-in-Wonderland bizarreness of the British ticketing system that a ticket from A to B via a particular route is not valid for every intermediate point on that route.