LNER train hitting a deer (04/07)

[DaveHarries]

IN December 2022 I was put on a train from Bristol TM to Plymouth. Somewhere between, IIRC, Uphill Jcn and Taunton there was a noise under the train. By the time we got to Taunton the train was not sounding healthy and we then continued to Tiverton Parkway where, after a number of minutes, it was announced that we could not move as we had hit something, probably an animal of some sort, which had damaged something under the train.

As it was we sat there for around 2hrs while someone came up from Exeter and a makeshift repair was done before my fellow passengers and I were detrained, the XC train departed and we were then put on the following GWR IET for Penzance which, upon walking to the Bristol end of the platform while the XC train sat there, we could see behind us being held at the signal just north of the station. The damaged XC train continued to Tiverton Loop and was then sent back ECS to Bristol.

Dave

 

[snowball]

Cows are probably much worse. Much bigger and depending on the speed could potentially cause a derailment.

Polmont 1984, 13 people killed, 61 injured, 17 seriously.

 

[Eastern Farmer]

Not surprised, living as I live in this area of the country and I have seen many more dear out and about in the last few years. Never seen one hit by a train though like I say the amount of them we have round here these days I am not at all surprised.

 

[cf111]

During the winter on the Far North Line I've often thought that the drivers could do a sideline selling venison due to the number of deer struck by trains. My personal best (as a passenger) is four deer between Georgemas Junction and Helmsdale. I should have sat at the back of the train that day!

 

[AlastairFraser]

Perhaps I should have expressed myself more clearly.

I was wondering why their "protected status" created issues beyond those caused by any other collisions.

I would think it to be something to do with Crown ownership. There's a few additional laws relating to Swans too I think.
E.g. https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk...te swans belong,or a wildlife related offence.

 

[66701GBRF]

Perhaps I should have expressed myself more clearly.

I was wondering why their "protected status" created issues beyond those caused by any other collisions.

Their protected status means they have priority over train running. Ie if there is one sitting in the 4ft trains will be cautioned and held untill it moves.

 

[greyman42]

Their protected status means they have priority over train running. Ie if there is one sitting in the 4ft trains will be cautioned and held untill it moves.

Who would report a swan sitting in the 4ft?

 

[skyhigh]

Who would report a swan sitting in the 4ft?

Well a driver for a start.

 

[greyman42]

Well a driver for a start.

If on a high speed stretch of line, would the swan not have been obliterated?

 

[skyhigh]

If on a high speed stretch of line, would the swan not have been obliterated?

Not if the swan is on the opposite line, no...

 

[greyman42]

I would think it to be something to do with Crown ownership. There's a few additional laws relating to Swans too I think.

Perhaps The Crown should pay for the delays then.

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Not if the swan is on the opposite line, no...

If a swan is unlikely to cause significant damage i would keep my mouth shut.

 

[anthony263]

I've hit a deer while I was driving a caetano levante on the NX 216 Bristol Airport to Cardiff service between the airport and Ashton gate. Gave me a fright and its not a place I expected to see a deer at 0420.

Poor coach took a hit and had to have the front end repaired. Managed to limp the coach empty back to the depot

 

[Spartacus]

Perhaps The Crown should pay for the delays then.

Probably does in a roundabout way. crown income goes to the treasury, where the lion's share of Network Rail's funding comes from, who pay for the swan related delays.

Never heard of a lion being killed on the line though. Alpacas, beavers, ostriches, but never a lion.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Perhaps The Crown should pay for the delays then.

When since do the Crown pay for anything they desire?

 

[mpthomson]

Deer are on the increase, purely from a personal view we now see them close to village, in the fields (and therefore close to the railway) whereas 20 years it was only in thickly wooded areas that you saw them. One area where they seem particularly prevalent is the area around Howsham and Kirkham Abbey, between York and Malton. More often than not you will see deer in this section.

Population increase is approximately 30% per year at the moment, total popn just over 2 million as there are no natural UK predators since wolves disappeared and they're hunted for meat far less than they were historically. There's also increased woodland cover and more winter crops planted plus milder winters, meaning that more survive over winter. I live on an estate and they're controlled very firmly on there, meaning the local pubs often have venison on the menu.

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[12LDA28C]

Probably more than you'd think, but depends on type. A monkjack might be hardly bigger than a large dog but a full grown red deer (e.g. as in Scotland) would be like hitting a small cow. A friend wrote his Volvo off in the Wyre Forest when he hit a smallish deer (probably a roe)!

I'm wondering what a 'monkjack' is...

Is it related in some way to a muntjac?

 

[2192]

Definitely. I remember an instance way back in the days when Kings Lynn trains were still loco hauled from Liverpool Street. After arrival at Kings Lynn, while the second man unhooked the loco the driver was down on the ballast at the other end. He picked a pheasant off the buffer beam, inserted it into a bag and placed in what would become the rear cab on the journey back to London. I dread to think of the smell that greeted the next driver to drive that loco from the country end!

Pheasant sandwiches daily for the next two weeks?

 

[Silenos]

I've hot a deer driving a caetano levante on the NX 216 Bristol Airport to Cardiff service between the airport and Ashton gate. Gave me a fright and its not a place I expected to see a deer at 0420.

Yes, I would think anyone would have been surprised and shocked to find a deer driving a Levante, at any time of day…

 

[185143]

During the winter on the Far North Line I've often thought that the drivers could do a sideline selling venison due to the number of deer struck by trains. My personal best (as a passenger) is four deer between Georgemas Junction and Helmsdale. I should have sat at the back of the train that day!

I was on a 158 up there once in the accessible toilet. Heard a bloody loud bang from in-between the carriages and a fair bit of rattling underneath us. In hindsight I'd have been justified in pulling the red lever. Finished and left, to see many passengers in the carriage looking outside with concerned expressions.

Pulled into Golspie where I was getting off and told the guard what I'd heard. The driver came down asking if anything had been reported as the rear engine had cut out. I told her of my observations and she examined the engine before restarting it and continuing.

The next service South had to examine the line and the guard ended up leaving the train in Hi Vis. Said he had to clear debris, but wouldn't really elaborate on what. Suspect we'd hit a deer heading North.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As the Polmont tragedy shows, it isn't just the size of the animal that matters, it's also the mechanics of what happens in the collision as the animal is destroyed. A critical factor at Polmont was a bone which caused the train to derail due to how it went under. There's a lot of unpredictability with things like that, one one day hitting a deer could cause minimal damage, on another it could cause a catastrophic derailment. Whilst not as severe, bird strikes are similarly unpredictable. Some just bounce off, but if it cracks the windscreen or damages the wipers as it does so, it'll mean a delay or cancellation.

 

[JJmoogle]

I was on a XC deer strike voyager last year which went under the train at 110mph and took it out of service.

Out of my lifetime of rail journeys the sheer violence it caused to the train itself is the only time I've ever instinctually braced myself, believe there were some injuries in other carriages, utterly terrifying experience.

 

[Deepgreen]

Perhaps The Crown should pay for the delays then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2023 ==


If a swan is unlikely to cause significant damage i would keep my mouth shut.

Another issue with swans, on electrified lines, is if they try to take off and hit OHLE - I've seen a swan fly into overhead cables and it was horrendous.

 

[John Luxton]

Another issue with swans, on electrified lines, is if they try to take off and hit OHLE - I've seen a swan fly into overhead cables and it was horrendous.

I thought that birds off the ground would not be harmed by OLE as they don't earth.

 

[Tester]

I thought that birds off the ground would not be harmed by OLE as they don't earth.

The problem is if they get near an insulator - as I found many years ago at Euston with a pigeon. A very loud explosion and bits flying everywhere - nothing left of any significant size.

 

[MotCO]

However, I think pheasants are probably the ultimate when it comes to animals with little road sense.

I agree - they just saunter in the road oblivious to anything coming towards them.

 

[TreacleMiller]

I agree - they just saunter in the road oblivious to anything coming towards them.

They do make for a rather grim sport at high speed.

I think they feel the rail head sing or something and their heads pop up and they stand tall right before they hit the nose.

They can cause some proper damage though, including the horn and air feeds on 800s reasonably easily.

 

[David Burrows]

I once read that animals, birds etc have it in their DNA from the year dot to be frightened by an animal that might cause problems for them or eat them. Thus small animals tend naturally to hide or run away from bigger ones which might do them harm. You can see this happening anywhere. But back in the year dot there were no trains, or road traffic, hence today animals and birds will run away from other animals that might fancy them for lunch, but have no idea what to do when faced with a train or road traffic, hence they may just stop and stare at the oncoming vehicle, or keep walking down the road or railway. Their brain does not recognise these things, therefore they appear to ignore the danger.

 

[Rellybelli]

Hi All,

The 08:12 Doncaster to Edinburgh (that I was booked on) hit a deer near Grantham this morning.

Luckily it managed to get going again but we’d all been shuttled onto a Newcastle Cross Country service “only as far as York” where the conductor kept announcing it had been cancelled!

It departed York 41 down then tried to make up time to be under 30 minutes and nearly made it but we got held outside Edinburgh and the time ticked over. DR already approved.

The main point of this was wondering how often trains hit deer, I assume not that often as it won’t be pretty!

I’ve been on an lner train coming from London that hit a deer once.

It literally broke the train and we had to wait to be rescued and transferred onto another train.

Made the most ungodly noise, I thought we had gone into a tree!!!

It was just before Grantham too, lmao.

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The area near Grantham is known for deer strikes. I remember coming home from London to York on the 2300 and we struck one in that area. It disabled the train and we had to be rescued by a thunderbird. Ended up in taxis from Doncaster and into York around 0400.

Haha I may have been on that train with you lol

 

[NI 271]

They do make for a rather grim sport at high speed.

I think they feel the rail head sing or something and their heads pop up and they stand tall right before they hit the nose.

They can cause some proper damage though, including the horn and air feeds on 800s reasonably easily.

They do, being incredibly unintelligent birds, often just stand still and allow themselves to be struck. I was once driving down the S&C waiting for the familiar "dong" sound (I drive locos and the metal cowl at the front normally protects whatever's behind it) as I approached one, only for it to finally take fright at the last second, after it had disappeared from sight. It got as high as the middle of my windscreen before it was obliterated, woke me right up, that one.

 

[Silenos]

They do, being incredibly unintelligent birds, often just stand still and allow themselves to be struck.

I don’t know if this happens with trains, but on the roads, once they do try to escape pheasants often flee in a straight line, directly in front of the car rather than trying to get away to the side. Which as they aren’t the strongest flyers only has one outcome. They constitute about 50% of the extensive roadkill round here, the rest mostly being hares - most mornings the local roads look like an abbatoir.