How often are quiet coaches actually quiet?

[bramling]

All of those ranting about other passengers not behaving in accordance with *their* own preferences should learn personal stress relief. Trying to control other people's behaviour in such circumstances is a waste of time. I'm not keen on noisy people but a token name of 'quiet coach' just doesn't make it happen however self-entitled it might make somebody feel.

Isn’t it quite self-entitled to walk into a space deemed as quiet and expect to make noise ad-infinitum? I never really get why it’s so difficult for some people to keep it zipped for a relatively short period of time.

Of course, the majority of people have a strategy for dealing with this, and that’s to simply travel by car.

Having said that, you’re probably right that it isn’t worth getting too bothered about as it’s not going to change. Indeed standards of public behaviour in this country only ever seem to head in one direction, and it isn’t upwards.

 

[AM9]

Isn’t it quite self-entitled to walk into a space deemed as quiet and expect to make noise ad-infinitum? I never really get why it’s so difficult for some people to keep it zipped for a relatively short period of time.

We are all different and as has been stated so many times in this thread, the TOCs are not consistent with their 'rules' for any quieter areas. Add to that the different posters' opinions of what a 'quiet' area is meant to be (e.g. no phone use/games/tv, no general talking, no coughing, - maybe no any noise including breathing in an anti-social way, then there is no majority view.

Of course, the majority of people have a strategy for dealing with this, and that’s to simply travel by car.

I don't think that the amount of noise that other passengers make is the major deterrent, - indeed on these very forums so many aspects of rail travel have been cited as major reasons why footfall is lower, (high fares, poor reliability, dirty, inadequate service, wrong type of seats, poor air conditioning, rough ride characteristics, surly or antagonistic staff), - and that's before the rather more niche aspects of enthusiasts are claimed, - too noisy trains*, lighting too bright, wrong livery etc..

Having said that, you’re probably right that it isn’t worth getting too bothered about as it’s not going to change. Indeed standards of public behaviour in this country only ever seem to head in one direction, and it isn’t upwards.

Those who seriously believe that German/Japanese/Swiss etc., railways are so much better than the UK's offering need to weigh up all aspects of living in those countries, i.e. not just how the railways work. If on balance other countries really seem better than the UK, we are fortunate that UK citizens have a lot less trouble migrating out than others currently do coming here, so the solution is in their hands.

* Suggestions here that class 150s don't have a quiet coach reads like a joke. The thrash of the engines and other general din often drowns out even the most boisterouis of passenger groups so any semblence of 'quiet' would still be absent with no passengers.

 

[AM9]

I observe your use of the passive aggressive as in rant, their own preferences, self-entitled, should ...- something like 'get over it; get a life?' I hope you will calm down, and feel able to respect the wishes of your fellow travellers, which is not (it seems to me) unreasonable, however token that might be. Self-entitled 'old git'?

Calm down, you really have misunderstood my post. I can deal with the stresses and pressures of rail travel, unpleasant as they are sometimes, and @bramling has in part agreed with that in post #211. Maybe you would understand more if you read my response to that (post #212) then seek out the imaginary "passive aggression".

 

[bramling]

We are all different and as has been stated so many times in this thread, the TOCs are not consistent with their 'rules' for any quieter areas. Add to that the different posters' opinions of what a 'quiet' area is meant to be (e.g. no phone use/games/tv, no general talking, no coughing, - maybe no any noise including breathing in an anti-social way, then there is no majority view.

I agree the “rules” should certainly be more consistent, as well as give greater clarity, but I don’t think that’s the full story. Most people really should be able to grasp what “quiet” means, irrespective of any lack of clarity. In the majority of cases, including if in doubt, it should be perfectly possible to choose somewhere else on the train, but as usual some people will become indignant about this as though it’s an affront to their human rights.

One way or another, etiquette and behavioural expectations exist in many places, including “public” ones such as libraries, swimming pools etc. Yet such places don’t seem to have so many issues with people acting up, nor for that matter booting problem people out when necessary. There unfortunately seems to be something about the type of clientele that seems to increasingly form the railway’s backbone.

I don't think that the amount of noise that other passengers make is the major deterrent, - indeed on these very forums so many aspects of rail travel have been cited as major reasons why footfall is lower, (high fares, poor reliability, dirty, inadequate service, wrong type of seats, poor air conditioning, rough ride characteristics, surly or antagonistic staff),

It really is. I know a lot of people who won’t even countenance going by train, except perhaps to make London journeys simply because they perceive London as being such a pain to drive to. Being stuck on a train for a long time with something like a Jeremy Kyle family nearby really is a turn-off.

Those who seriously believe that German/Japanese/Swiss etc., railways are so much better than the UK's offering need to weigh up all aspects of living in those countries,

That isn’t really the comparison most people make, even if it makes a good Daily Express “have your say” tag. For most people the comparison is with their private car, where most of these issues simply don’t arise.

* Suggestions here that class 150s don't have a quiet coach reads like a joke. The thrash of the engines and other general din often drowns out even the most boisterouis of passenger groups so any semblence of 'quiet' would still be absent with no passengers.

This is one reason why I tend to prefer stock with opening windows. The noise from the train drowns out many of the minor irritating noises which people make. A constant engine or motor drone is much more preferable to tinny rubbish being played on an iPhone, or Kayleigh and Amber babbling away about what they’re going to buy from Primark at Thurrock Lakeside.

 

[Eastern Farmer]

On my LNER trips I usually use first class these days as I mostly go on longer trips, but if I am just popping to Lincoln London or Donny I just go with standard in a quiet coach usually. When I say quiet coach LNER actually call it a quieter coach, and off the top of my head their rule for it is something like music should be kept down and not to disturb the people around them ( I believe they mention using earphones) and that conversations should be conducted quietly.

The only time I think I have been ticked off with the noise on the quieter coach was when the two youths in front of me were playing their tip tok (I think that’s right) stuff on a very high volume, but when informed (by another passenger) they turned it down and actually said sorry to every single individual person around them one at a time which I found rather sweet.

Edit: Just corrected my poor geography skills!

 

[BeijingDave]

Also get the distinct impression it is AM9 who is self-entitled.

 

[SussexSeagull]

Again people should learn to read the room/carriage. I have been on commuter trains where literally the entire carriage is silent and half or full on asleep apart from one young guy who decided to have the most banal conversation with the girlfriend he probably left half an hour ago. On the other hand if it is an early evening Saturday train into town a bit of rowdiness is to be expected, which is fine so long as it doesn't overstep the mark.

 

[trainophile]

Funnily enough, on our outward journey (also in the quiet coach) where I had just met up with my friend after eight months on WhatsApp only, naturally we were excited to see each other again and had a bit of controlled chat at a not intrusive volume. However we realised we probably should be keeping quite, and apologised to the chap at the table across the aisle who was reading a book. He smiled and said "no worries, you're allowed to talk, it's just phones you shouldn't use in here". That probably contributed to our possible lack of consideration on our return journey, although at no point were we anything over a quiet conversational level.

The rules do need clarifying.

 

[westv]

I thought LNER dropped their "quiet coach" ages ago.

 

[BeijingDave]

Funnily enough, on our outward journey (also in the quiet coach) where I had just met up with my friend after eight months on WhatsApp only, naturally we were excited to see each other again and had a bit of controlled chat at a not intrusive volume. However we realised we probably should be keeping quite, and apologised to the chap at the table across the aisle who was reading a book. He smiled and said "no worries, you're allowed to talk, it's just phones you shouldn't use in here". That probably contributed to our possible lack of consideration on our return journey, although at no point were we anything over a quiet conversational level.

The rules do need clarifying.

I don't think the rules need clarifying. There are usually about 7-9 other carriages where you can go and not 'be quiet'.

I don't see that it's too much to ask of people to go and conduct an 'excited conversation' in the 90% of the train where it's not controversial.

 

[AM9]

I don't think the rules need clarifying. There are usually about 7-9 other carriages where you can go and not 'be quiet'.

I don't see that it's too much to ask of people to go and conduct an 'excited conversation' in the 90% of the train where it's not controversial.

I disagree. Clearly, the only ones who think the rules are clear are the ones that want the quiet coaches for themselves.
Not every other passenger necessarily understands the rules, probably because:

a) they are not consistent between TOCs or even different rolling stock on the same TOC, (acccording to some posters here).​

b) opinions of what there sometimes obscure rules mean is open to interpretation and consequentially dispute, (as many posters here have stated).​

So leaving the rules as they are where you, "don't see that it's too much to ask of people to go etc. ..."; not much is going to change. I realised that a long time ago so decided to learn to live with it, - less stress that way!

 

[spyinthesky]

I don't think the rules need clarifying. There are usually about 7-9 other carriages where you can go and not 'be quiet'.

I don't see that it's too much to ask of people to go and conduct an 'excited conversation' in the 90% of the train where it's not controversial.

The rules are controversial as they are written as requests with please and should.
Group of four people waiting at a station when train pulls in and they see free table in the quiet coach in front of them, they are going to take it. As most Inter city services are well loaded and reservations not required the 10% are going to have to put up with it until it becomes enforceable and those that are able to enforce it are safe to do so.
If quiet coaches are made reservation only and it becomes a condition of travel then maybe something could be done but I doubt very much that this will happen.

 

[Warrior2852]

I thought LNER dropped their "quiet coach" ages ago.

It certainly existed when I was in it back in March, that's why I started this whole thread in the first place!

 

[AM9]

The rules are controversial as they are written as requests with please and should.
Group of four people waiting at a station when train pulls in and they see free table in the quiet coach in front of them, they are going to take it. As most Inter city services are well loaded and reservations not required the 10% are going to have to put up with it until it becomes enforceable and those that are able to enforce it are safe to do so.
If quiet coaches are made reservation only and it becomes a condition of travel then maybe something could be done but I doubt very much that this will happen.

At least somebody here has a sense of realism about this.

 

[island]

I thought LNER dropped their "quiet coach" ages ago.

Coach H for Hush in 9 coach 801s is certainly still marked quiet. No idea about 5 coach units, 800s, or 802s.

 

[BeijingDave]

At least somebody here has a sense of realism about this.

Well, I do sort of have a sense of realism about it, because I have given up to the extent that I just sit in any carriage and wear noise-cancelling headphones now (ensuring my own music doesn't leak out and disturb others).

But I still despair that people think basic etiquette is not for them to observe. I would say in a place marked quiet you should be quiet. You wouldn't hold an excited conversation in the middle of a library so why do people do it in a train carriage marked 'quiet'?

It's noise pollution and akin to going to a small non-smoking area and smoking because it's too inconvenient to go somewhere where it's allowed (and you're too important!).

 

[bramling]

At least somebody here has a sense of realism about this.

I’m in two minds about this. Whilst I kind of agree that you’re right this probably something that isn’t going to improve, on the other hand this attitude is rather defeatist. I don’t find it unreasonable to expect a quiet carriage to provided, and likewise it really isn’t too much to ask that people respect it. Of course, as others have pointed out, people shouldn’t really be making disruptive noise in *any* carriage, but of course some people don’t seem to be house-trained enough to be able to exist in public spaces without making an exhibition of themselves. Car it is, then.

On the other hand, maybe rising inflation will ease the problem as it’s likely a proportion of people simply won’t be able to afford to travel by rail as much, and perhaps they’ll be resigned to making a nuisance of themselves in their local bus shelter instead.

 

[spyinthesky]

On the other hand, maybe rising inflation will ease the problem as it’s likely a proportion of people simply won’t be able to afford to travel by rail as much, and perhaps they’ll be resigned to making a nuisance of themselves in their local bus shelter instead.

Or have a quiet coach supplement if you think you can out price bad manners

 

[bramling]

Or have a quiet coach supplement if you think you can out price bad manners

I don’t have a problem with that, however there then comes the reasonable expectation of effective enforcement.

 

[trainophile]

It shouldn’t be too much to ask for a part of the train where hen parties, football fans etc. aren’t welcome, maybe where alcohol is not to be consumed, while permitting couples, be they partners or friends, sitting next to eachother, can talk quietly to eachother.

My reference to being excited to see my friend again was not intended to suggest that our reunion chat was at an excitable level!

 

[AM9]

It's noise pollution and akin to going to a small non-smoking area and smoking because it's too inconvenient to go somewhere where it's allowed (and you're too important!).

Not quite, smoking has a known impact on the health.of others in a confined space, and that is legislated for in all civilised countries. High accoustic levels of noise can eventually cause hearing damage but this discussion isn't about 90dBA plus levels. Unwanted noise, can affect a few people's mental health, but that is a whole new subject unless somebody is asking for special coaches for passengers with medically certified susceptibility to those noises.

 

[Eastern Farmer]

I thought LNER dropped their "quiet coach" ages ago.

No 9 cars still had it when I went to London in April. I don’t remember 5 cars ever having it.
Also just as a note my previous comment was meant to say London not Lincoln!

 

[Peter0124]

Occasional whispering to the person next to you, and not constant chatter would probably be more acceptable in the quiet coach.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I used to greatly miss having the option of a First Class Quiet Coach on Pendolinos. (I say used to because I've not travelled on one for several years)

Sometimes even just the frequent text message alert going off every minute or two on a long journey would frustrate me.

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

Interesting experience this morning - seeing a large group of schoolchildren being escorted onto (supposedly booked?) Coach A on a GWR IET, which is the quiet coach.

Not sure if this was planned beforehand, as I know it is possible to book coaches out for large groups, but it would be strange for Coach A to be picked! I understand it's the smallest standard class coach on the 9-car IETs, so maybe that's got something to do with it...

 

[zwk500]

Interesting experience this morning - seeing a large group of schoolchildren being escorted onto (supposedly booked?) Coach A on a GWR IET, which is the quiet coach.

Not sure if this was planned beforehand, as I know it is possible to book coaches out for large groups, but it would be strange for Coach A to be picked! I understand it's the smallest standard class coach on the 9-car IETs, so maybe that's got something to do with it...

It's also presumably the only end coach for standard class, and therefore easier to separate the school party from all the other travellers

 

[Krokodil]

In my experience organised school groups are far better behaved than many adult travellers.

 

[jackot]

Today, of 3 of the SWR services I travelled on to/from Waterloo, 2 of them involved the guard making an announcement about the quiet zones, telling people to 'keep noise levels to a minimum' if they are sat in them. Nice to see them actually being enforced - have SWR guards recently been briefed about reminding people about this? I can't say I've heard it being announced since the days of SWT.

 

[Travelkide]

I used to carry and proffer Poundland earbuds for the people who "forgot" their headphones.

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Nowadays a lot of devices don't have the necessary socket any more of course...

Even with the ''headphones'' they might as well talk on the speaker sometimes

 

[Basher]

Just dun my regular trip to Kings Cross first class (LNER), and yet again the journey was spoilt by noisy children in the coach. Having spent in the region of £200 for a ticket I feel I may as well travel standard class. I love children when they grilled.
People on telephones, telling people they are on the train. oh oh
What do you think