Transdev Blazefield

[Ashly_Jethro]

If only they’d known a few months ago Transdev could have planned to retain the Streetlites and move them back to Burnley for the local services, so they wouldn’t have had to proceed with this big move around of Mellors and Solos

I’m guessing Transdev might sell most of the single decks to First as they don’t really have much alternative work for them. It might be useful if they could offload a number of the surplus Mellors as well

We don’t know what is happening with the schools work, but if that is also lost, I imagine Transdev would want to retain the double decks as they would have alternative uses, helping to start removing the old Presidents.

They’d never send those Streetlites back to Burnley, they were removed for a good reason.

They’d likely keep all the Volvos, sell or scrap most of the enviros, and quite possibly sell the streetlites to first. The Eclipses and B9s are desperately needed at other depots. Not sure they’d actually allow for any presidents to be retired, most likely just fill the gaps they already have. Single decks on the other hand could see any remaining B10s off (sad as it is) and possibly some of the older eclipses too

 

[Geeves]

So far TfGM have 100 new buses coming for the northern areas including Oldham that will displace some of the current fleet to other areas (including you would assume the Rochdale work)

I dont think its out in the open yet what First plan to do with their fleet at Oldham yet, so far as I know. Theres nothing really in Rochdale (now) that a full size bus couldnt get down.

Doesn't seem like Transdev will need to hand anything over

 

[mangad]

Stagecoach are reported to be retaining Bryn (Wigan) Depot. With them winning Oldham, Middleton and Queens Road franchises maybe it will become some sort of storage area.

Remember that Stagecoach have also previously won a high number of school franchises needing 51 buses in the Wigan and Bolton areas...

I think they may have a use for the Wigan depot if they want to retain it and it's vehicles.

Transdev will have redundant vehicles. Stagecoach less so.

TfGM awards first school bus franchise contracts

Stagecoach Manchester and Vision Bus have been awarded home-to-school franchise contracts by TfGM as part of reregulation in the region.

www.route-one.net

 

[SCH117X]

They’d likely keep all the Volvos, sell or scrap most of the enviros, and quite possibly sell the streetlites to first.

Are they owned ? - I thought the large part of the fleet was leased

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2023 ==

Its now 6 months since the former MD tweeted a image of a new livery for the X98/X99 - presumably that has been cancelled.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

Are they owned ? - I thought the large part of the fleet was leased

Think the vehicles formerly purchased by the council run Rosso will be owned, sure the B9s were purchased after they came off lease at malton. Streetlites may be leased, enviros possibly purchased.

 

[SCH117X]

Think the vehicles formerly purchased by the council run Rosso will be owned, sure the B9s were purchased after they came off lease at malton. Streetlites may be leased, enviros possibly purchased.

Its noticeable all the Volvos are in the generic Pride of the North / Transdev Go livery as if it had already been considered what if we lose Rochdale.

 

[RustySpoons]

Are they owned ? - I thought the large part of the fleet was leased

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2023 ==

Its now 6 months since the former MD tweeted a image of a new livery for the X98/X99 - presumably that has been cancelled.

Forgot about that. Unless the repaints for the vehicles swapped between Burnley and Keighley have taken priority?

Or, and probably more wise, it's been decided that a new livery and brand for a service that by all accounts isn't performing brilliantly using the highest spec vehicles in the fleet isn't the best idea.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

Its noticeable all the Volvos are in the generic Pride of the North / Transdev Go livery as if it had already been considered what if we lose Rochdale.

That’s just current policy for school service vehicles which they were intended for, there is some Rosso branded eclipses too don’t forget

 

[Andyh82]

Its noticeable all the Volvos are in the generic Pride of the North / Transdev Go livery as if it had already been considered what if we lose Rochdale.

Probably because they were used on schools which could have been lost at any time (I’m sure the contracts for school services in Manchester were pretty short length retendered constantly)

 

[bgbus21]

That’s just current policy for school service vehicles which they were intended for, there is some Rosso branded eclipses too don’t forget

The rosso "yellow" Eclipses got transferred to Team Pennine for Great Northern Line 502 (1714/15) and the generic pink ones (1716/24/25) which normally see use on the 20/21/587.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

The rosso "yellow" Eclipses got transferred to Team Pennine for Great Northern Line 502 (1714/15) and the generic pink ones (1716/24/25) which normally see use on the 20/21/587.

Forgot about those ones!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

and quite possibly sell the streetlites to first

Think it was suggested on the initial tranche that e200mmcs were earmarked by First to transfer from Glasgow; sure it's on that thread somewhere. Somewhat curiously, they're busy sending Streetlites off lease, with these ending up with Diamond to help with their GM routes until their new buses arrive IIRC.

 

[Delenn]

From the North West Notices and Proceedings:

Section 5.1 – Notice of Public Inquiries to be Held
Public Inquiry (88108) to be held at The Public Inquiry Room (Warrington), WA3 2SH, Suite 4, Stone
Cross Place, Stone Cross Lane North, Golborne, Warrington, on 7 September 2023 commencing at
10:00
PC0001838 SN
ROSSENDALE TRANSPORT LTD
Director(s): VITTORIO PIZZUTI, PAUL TURNER, HENRI ROHARD, ANDREW BROWN
C/O TRANSDEV BLAZEFIELD LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE,
HG2 7NY
S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act
1981 &
S155 Transport Act 2000

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1166143/np_3078_28_June_2023.pdf

Anyone heard anything about this?

 

[Goldfish62]

From the North West N&P:

Section 5.1 – Notice of Public Inquiries to be Held
Public Inquiry (88108) to be held at The Public Inquiry Room (Warrington), WA3 2SH, Suite 4, Stone
Cross Place, Stone Cross Lane North, Golborne, Warrington, on 7 September 2023 commencing at
10:00
PC0001838 SN
ROSSENDALE TRANSPORT LTD
Director(s): VITTORIO PIZZUTI, PAUL TURNER, HENRI ROHARD, ANDREW BROWN
C/O TRANSDEV BLAZEFIELD LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE,
HG2 7NY
S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act
1981 &
S155 Transport Act 2000

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1166143/np_3078_28_June_2023.pdf

Anyone heard anything about this?

I was told a few weeks ago they were being called up.

S155 is basically failure to operate services as registered.

 

[M803UYA]

I was told a few weeks ago they were being called up.

S155 is basically failure to operate services as registered.

Wonder if TfGM have reported them for failing to run their contracts some time back? They were losing rather a lot of mileage during evenings!

 

[Bayum]

Forgot about that. Unless the repaints for the vehicles swapped between Burnley and Keighley have taken priority?

Or, and probably more wise, it's been decided that a new livery and brand for a service that by all accounts isn't performing brilliantly using the highest spec vehicles in the fleet isn't the best idea.

Is it not performing well? Always seems to be well-used whenever I see it in Wetherby/Collingham.

 

[Soundwave]

Wonder if TfGM have reported them for failing to run their contracts some time back? They were losing rather a lot of mileage during evenings!

It would be bad form for a Local Authority to report to the Traffic Commisioner.

They would essentially be saying they don't have good contract management systems in place.

 

[Goldfish62]

It would be bad form for a Local Authority to report to the Traffic Commisioner.

They would essentially be saying they don't have good contract management systems in place.

Local authorities have a responsibility to report poor services to the Traffic Commissioner, especially when they're financially supporting said operator's services.

How on earth do you deduce that local authority contract management systems are responsible for an operator's inability to recruit and retain staff?

Rosso have already been suspended from tendering for existing TfGM work several times due to poor performance and have lost all their work under Tranche 2. If that's not effective contract management by TfGM then I don't know what is.

 

[Andyh82]

Surely if this enquiry delivers a sanction then all they would do is quit some Rochdale or Bury tenders early, which they’ve lost anyway, which will once again cause problems for TfGM

 

[Goldfish62]

Surely if this enquiry delivers a sanction then all they would do is quit some Rochdale or Bury tenders early, which they’ve lost anyway, which will once again cause problems for TfGM

And the alternative is what? Let them get away with it? (assuming the TC decides the case warrants regulatory action)

The reputational damage to Transdev Blazefield of any sanction would far outweigh the inconvenience to TfGM of scrambling around trying to cover any services they chuck in.

 

[Soundwave]

Local authorities have a responsibility to report poor services to the Traffic Commissioner, especially when they're financially supporting said operator's services.

How on earth do you deduce that local authority contract management systems are responsible for an operator's inability to recruit and retain staff?

Rosso have already been suspended from tendering for existing TfGM work several times due to poor performance and have lost all their work under Tranche 2. If that's not effective contract management by TfGM then I don't know what is.

I never said contract management was the issue. I just pointed out that local authorities would/should have robust contract management to deal with repeated incidences, so they wouldn't need to approach the Traffic Commissioner.

As you said yourself, Rosso have been banned. I assume TfGM did not have to go running to the the Traffic Commisioner to do that!

 

[Goldfish62]

I never said contract management was the issue. I just pointed out that local authorities would/should have robust contract management to deal with repeated incidences, so they wouldn't need to approach the Traffic Commissioner.

As you said yourself, Rosso have been banned. I assume TfGM did not have to go running to the the Traffic Commisioner to do that!

I don't think you understand the role of the traffic commissioners. They are completely independent of local authorities. If it comes to light that an operator hasn't been operating registered services they still have the right to take regulatory action irrespective of what action a local authority may have already taken. Once an operator starts consistently failing to operate registered services they've got the attention of the TC.

Rosso will have been called to informal meetings with the DVSA and the TC to work through the issues. Obviously this approach hads't worked to the TC's satisfaction, hence the formal inquiry.

 

[duncombec]

Rosso have already been suspended from tendering for existing TfGM work several times due to poor performance and have lost all their work under Tranche 2.

Just as a point of interest, has that only happened since the Transdev takeover (which I'm aware was itself a few years ago now), or is this a lasting problem that has continued since days of municipal management?

 

[Goldfish62]

Just as a point of interest, has that only happened since the Transdev takeover (which I'm aware was itself a few years ago now), or is this a lasting problem that has continued since days of municipal management?

As far as I'm aware, only the past couple of years, during which Rosso have had far more difficulties recruiting and retaining staff than other operators in the area.

The TCs are fully aware of the issues and to a certain extent have taken the nationwide shortages into account, but will still take action against outliers, as was done with Stagecoach South West.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't think you understand the role of the traffic commissioners. They are completely independent of local authorities. If it comes to light that an operator hasn't been operating registered services they still have the right to take regulatory action irrespective of what action a local authority may have already taken. Once an operator starts consistently failing to operate registered services they've got the attention of the TC.

Rosso will have been called to informal meetings with the DVSA and the TC to work through the issues. Obviously this approach hads't worked to the TC's satisfaction, hence the formal inquiry.

No disrespect, but I know exactly what the role of the traffic commissioner is and I also know very well how local authority bus contracts work.

The point I'm making is that local authorities will not dob in operators to the TC unless they are asked for information. At which point the local authority may have already lost control of the contract management given it's landed on the desk of the traffic commissioner in the first place (unless both parties are looking at the same thing)

 

[markymark2000]

It's worth noting that it wasn't just the tenders which were an issue in Manchester but also the commercial routes which suffered heavily from cancellations.

 

[Goldfish62]

It's worth noting that it wasn't just the tenders which were an issue in Manchester but also the commercial routes which suffered heavily from cancellations.

Quite correct.

Also worth noting that the TC will not proceed to a formal inquiry unless presented with evidence gathered from observations by DVSA Traffic Officers.

 

[theblackwatch]

Is it not performing well? Always seems to be well-used whenever I see it in Wetherby/Collingham.

I believe some of the locals in one of the villages (not yours!) weren't too happy after Transdev too over - more frequent late running (possibly due to driver's unfamiliarity picking up at extra stops on the way into Leeds?) and the binning of the last Wetherby to Leeds bus, as the bus now goes empty back to Starbeck from Wetherby. Whether this has affected passenger numbers I don't know.

I suspect Transdev's financial position has also led to a few plans being ditched.

 

[duncombec]

As far as I'm aware, only the past couple of years, during which Rosso have had far more difficulties recruiting and retaining staff than other operators in the area.

The TCs are fully aware of the issues and to a certain extent have taken the nationwide shortages into account, but will still take action against outliers, as was done with Stagecoach South West.

Thanks - sometimes issues rear their head quickly, other times they have a rather longer tail. Especially in view of the fact in the closing years of municipal management it felt as though almost every Rosso bus was a different colour (and not in a good sense), I wondered whether this had been a situation for a while.

 

[M803UYA]

I never said contract management was the issue. I just pointed out that local authorities would/should have robust contract management to deal with repeated incidences, so they wouldn't need to approach the Traffic Commissioner.

As you said yourself, Rosso have been banned. I assume TfGM did not have to go running to the the Traffic Commisioner to do that!

Given TfGM's role in Goodwins ceasing to provide tendered bus services recently it wouldn't come as a surprise if they'd reported to the traffic commissioner! I could be wrong and it might be passengers who were affected sending a steady stream of reports which cumulatively provide enough evidence?

Lack of buses/drivers doesn't count as a reasonable excuse for failing to provide services - statutory guidance makes it clear operators should have enough buses and drivers to operate their timetables. If not, then they're expected to reduce the timetables by varying the registration. Evidently the traffic commissioner isn't happy with Transdev's mitigations to the issue, hence the public inquiry.