Trainline rip off - charged admin fee but refund was for cancelled train

[Adam Williams]

What are the rules for refunds when a return journey is cancelled and the railway can't get you home?

If you just get the difference between the cost of a return and a single tickets then in many cases you'd get almost nothing yet if they got you there but 2 hours late you'd normally get the entire cost of the return ticket "refunded".

The iKB says that the amount due is 50% of the cost of the return fare under these circumstances (not the difference to the equivalent single fare), and most retailers that I know of will follow this guidance.

 

[AdamWW]

On a slightly different tangent, I had realised that when it launched all those years ago (with glossy ads and posters at stations) someone was going to have to pay for this, and I quickly realised going to the organ grinder and not the monkey was invariably best. My home TOC is ScotRail so I either bought direct or used their app. Now, I’ve no idea if this changed following Abello losing the contract, but trying to purchase a ticket on my phone - in the small print (see photo) that I was actually going to make a Trainline purchase! Anyone know why?

I think the Trainline provide on-line ticket sales for several TOCs via branded sites. But without the booking fees (and I presume also without the split ticketing ability).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2023 ==

The iKB says that the amount due is 50% of the cost of the return fare under these circumstances (not the difference to the equivalent single fare), and most retailers that I know of will follow this guidance.

That sounds reasonable.

Unless perhaps someone ends up having to buy a single ticket to travel home by a different route/company and therefore has to effectively pay for another return.
I suppose normally you'd hope they'd just get to use their existing ticket to do that.

 

[island]

On a slightly different tangent, I had realised that when it launched all those years ago (with glossy ads and posters at stations) someone was going to have to pay for this, and I quickly realised going to the organ grinder and not the monkey was invariably best. My home TOC is ScotRail so I either bought direct or used their app. Now, I’ve no idea if this changed following Abello losing the contract, but trying to purchase a ticket on my phone - in the small print (see photo) that I was actually going to make a Trainline purchase! Anyone know why?

Trainline processes several TOCs' bookings on an outsourced basis, sans nonsense fees.

 

[Haywain]

I think the Trainline provide on-line ticket sales for several TOCs via branded sites. But without the booking fees (and I presume also without the split ticketing ability).

They do indeed supply a good few TOCs with their 'white label' online sales, in the same way that a number use Worldline. I believe that TOCs are (or have been) restricted from charging booking or collection fees for their web sales - I think XC can do because they do not operate any stations or TVMs of their own.

 

[island]

They do indeed supply a good few TOCs with their 'white label' online sales, in the same way that a number use Worldline. I believe that TOCs are (or have been) restricted from charging booking or collection fees for their web sales - I think XC can do because they do not operate any stations or TVMs of their own.

I understand the rule to be that TOCs must make available one fee-free fulfilment option and may charge for alternatives.

XC will give free ToD on bookings that can't be fulfilled to e-ticket, such as cross-London tickets.

Could be wrong.

 

[yorkie]

That sounds reasonable.

Unless perhaps someone ends up having to buy a single ticket to travel home by a different route/company and therefore has to effectively pay for another return.
I suppose normally you'd hope they'd just get to use their existing ticket to do that.

As a general rule, there should be one of two things which could happen:

1) customer obtains a refund, and does not use the ticket (or delayed on route & returns to point of origin); the customer may additionally purchase another ticket

Or

2) customer travels by alternative route on the original ticket; delay repay would apply if th delay is of qualifying length

Option 2 is the best option if the journey is made by alternative means and if any replacement ticket would cost more than the original, although this may not always be an option depending on the extent of the delays, the applicable fare restrictions, ticket acceptance etc.

For example I once experienced a delay to Dumfries; I had bought through the forum's site. My TPE train was cancelled and I decided that the best thing to do was use alternative tickets to avoid a delay; I also arranged a lift from Carlisle. So in this case I chose the refund option rather than use the original ticket. This is because the original ticket wasn't being accepted on LNER, meaning I would be too late for the walk I was planning to do.

If anyone is in a pickle at the time of travel it's worth posting here, stating the booked itinerary, details of ticket(s) held, and as much information as possible, and those of us who happen to be online at the time may be in a position to assist.

Sometimes it's not easy to know the best solution as it depends on what the ticket acceptance situation is, how time critical the journey is, and other factors relating to customer preference etc.

 

[Haywain]

I understand the rule to be that TOCs must make available one fee-free fulfilment option and may charge for alternatives.

XC will give free ToD on bookings that can't be fulfilled to e-ticket, such as cross-London tickets.

Could be wrong.

We (LNER) were looking at charging for postal fulfilment when I was there but couldn't persuade DfT that it was a good idea!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because a lot of TOCs (about half, I think) contract out their online ticket selling operation to Trainline.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2023 ==

Trainline processes several TOCs' bookings on an outsourced basis, sans nonsense fees.

Indeed, though the app used is a different one that isn't quite as fully featured - for instance it doesn't do splits.

 

[ainsworth74]

Indeed, though the app used is a different one that isn't quite as fully featured - for instance it doesn't do splits.

One presumes that as that is something of a USP for Trainline that they'd charge a very pretty penny indeed for a TOC app to be able to use it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One presumes that as that is something of a USP for Trainline that they'd charge a very pretty penny indeed for a TOC app to be able to use it.

Or the TOCs might not want it as it would mean less income! (though LNER does do it themselves too)

 

[fandroid]

The iKB says that the amount due is 50% of the cost of the return fare under these circumstances (not the difference to the equivalent single fare), and most retailers that I know of will follow this guidance.

What is iKB?

 

[Haywain]

What is iKB?

It's the internal KnowledgeBase.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What is iKB?

"iKB" usually means 'internal knowledge base', which in a railway context, means a database that only railway staff and other authorized users can access. Should be organized in such a way that makes it easy for railway employees to find what they need to look up quickly.

 

[Deerfold]

We (LNER) were looking at charging for postal fulfilment when I was there but couldn't persuade DfT that it was a good idea!

Trying to book a journey in two weeks, it's no longer offered as an option at all.

 

[Adam Williams]

only railway staff and other authorized users can access.

 

[Haywain]

Trying to book a journey in two weeks, it's no longer offered as an option at all.

Yes, it was withdrawn for most things anyway.

 

[35B]

Yes, it was withdrawn for most things anyway.

That's odd; there's a regular booking I make where I use postal fulfilment (long story, but necessary and worth paying for) and it's still available

 

[Deerfold]

Yes, it was withdrawn for most things anyway.

I see it adds it back as an option (for £1.50) if I select PlusBus.

 

[Haywain]

Yes, it was withdrawn for most things anyway.

Might be wrong about that - just wishful thinking perhaps?! Just made a test booking and it is amongst the 'no phone' options if you're booking far enough ahead. With a charge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see it adds it back as an option (for £1.50) if I select PlusBus.

Guess it appears if eticket isn't an option, as not everyone can get to a station for ToD?

 

[35B]

Guess it appears if eticket isn't an option, as not everyone can get to a station for ToD?

Appears as a deeply buried option.

 

[Wallsendmag]

On a slightly different tangent, I had realised that when it launched all those years ago (with glossy ads and posters at stations) someone was going to have to pay for this, and I quickly realised going to the organ grinder and not the monkey was invariably best. My home TOC is ScotRail so I either bought direct or used their app. Now, I’ve no idea if this changed following Abello losing the contract, but trying to purchase a ticket on my phone - in the small print (see photo) that I was actually going to make a Trainline purchase! Anyone know why?

Always been Trainline white label.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2023 ==

We (LNER) were looking at charging for postal fulfilment when I was there but couldn't persuade DfT that it was a good idea!

Still trying I believe

I see it adds it back as an option (for £1.50) if I select PlusBus.

You must be using the app?

 

[Deerfold]

Always been Trainline white label.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2023 ==


Still trying I believe

You must be using the app?

No. The website. And they are charging for postal fulfillment.

 

[mangyiscute]

I was very impressed by trainpal (who I have been using due to their vouchers) who refunded my ticket due to a cancelled train in full just a day or two after the incident.
I will also say to op, I'd use the forums site https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ at least for looking up split tickets since they often find cheaper tickets than trainline (and you can of course book with them too with no booking fees except if they save you money from a split ticket)

 

[Wallsendmag]

No. The website. And they are charging for postal fulfillment.

Sorry I was confused yes postal charges are a thing and have been for a couple of years.