Swanline Scheduling

[Topological]

Hopefully this is the right section for this question.

Since the re-introduction of separate Swanline trains the timetable has the train leave Swansea at xx06 and arrive at Cardiff just ahead of the London train.

However, I see a lot of London trains picking up delays between Bridgend and Cardiff and sometimes even before Bridgend. Had this myself on a trip to London this week where the outward was delayed and then the train coming to form the return was late at Paddington for similar reasons.

Delay repay will apply to all those arriving in London 15 minutes late, so not a small number. Who actually pays that?

Would it make sense to change the time of the Swanline or loop it somewhere?

 

[bramling]

Hopefully this is the right section for this question.

Since the re-introduction of separate Swanline trains the timetable has the train leave Swansea at xx06 and arrive at Cardiff just ahead of the London train.

However, I see a lot of London trains picking up delays between Bridgend and Cardiff and sometimes even before Bridgend. Had this myself on a trip to London this week where the outward was delayed and then the train coming to form the return was late at Paddington for similar reasons.

Delay repay will apply to all those arriving in London 15 minutes late, so not a small number. Who actually pays that?

Would it make sense to change the time of the Swanline or loop it somewhere?

I’m not sure it’s the Swanline that’s the problem, however the Maesteg trains very much are. A look at RTTT for a typical day of Maesteg services is quite telling, their performance is dire, and this will of course be affecting other services due to the three intermediate stations between Bridgend and Cardiff, and the awkward layout at Bridgend where a down Maesteg train blocks the main line if the branch is occupied.

 

[Topological]

Presumably though the Swanline does still follow any delayed Maesteg and therefore prevents the GWR path from catching up the Maesteg?

It all feels very clumsy anyway.

Is it TfW who pick up the delay repay bill?

 

[markymark2000]

I’m not sure it’s the Swanline that’s the problem, however the Maesteg trains very much are. A look at RTTT for a typical day of Maesteg services is quite telling, their performance is dire, and this will of course be affecting other services due to the three intermediate stations between Bridgend and Cardiff, and the awkward layout at Bridgend where a down Maesteg train blocks the main line if the branch is occupied.

Depends. I have seen Maesteg trains looped quite a bit to the east of Bridgend. I think sometimes it depends on the signaller as sometimes they loop it and other times I've seen them happily put it into the platform and sit there 20 minutes blocking the line.

 

[sefyllian]

Lots of swan line delays today.

 

[clagmonster]

Delay repay will apply to all those arriving in London 15 minutes late, so not a small number. Who actually pays that?

If you delayed on a GWR train, you claim from and are paid by GWR. If said GWR train has been delayed following a late running TFW service, then GWR will be compensated by whoever has caused the delay to the TFW train. This latter transaction has nothing to do with your claim with GWR however.

 

[Topological]

If you delayed on a GWR train, you claim from and are paid by GWR. If said GWR train has been delayed following a late running TFW service, then GWR will be compensated by whoever has caused the delay to the TFW train. This latter transaction has nothing to do with your claim with GWR however.

Indeed.

So my question really concerns the fact that the train(s) causing delay to the GWR are consistently the same one(s) and that those train(s) are run by TfW. If it is as simple as the stock not keeping to the timetable then presumably that is TfW causing the delay?

My aim is to understand whether the Welsh Government are paying out for a service that should have been timed better, or where placing the train(s) in loops would remove the problem.

I appreciate the SWML is busy with freight, but it seems that the Swanline should leave Swansea much closer to the Manchester* departure and/or be timed to be looped.

Maesteg is more difficult but the zero investment solution is to reduce it to a shuttle from Bridgend with connection into the GWR. There seems to be a bay platform facing Maesteg. Otherwise the infrastructure needs sorting which has more obvious cost.

I know that delay repay is comparatively low, but theoretically how long until all these delays add up to more than the infrastructure cost?

 

[Class15]

Lots of swan line delays today.

Very funny.

 

[The Planner]

Indeed.

So my question really concerns the fact that the train(s) causing delay to the GWR are consistently the same one(s) and that those train(s) are run by TfW. If it is as simple as the stock not keeping to the timetable then presumably that is TfW causing the delay?

My aim is to understand whether the Welsh Government are paying out for a service that should have been timed better, or where placing the train(s) in loops would remove the problem.

I appreciate the SWML is busy with freight, but it seems that the Swanline should leave Swansea much closer to the Manchester* departure and/or be timed to be looped.

Maesteg is more difficult but the zero investment solution is to reduce it to a shuttle from Bridgend with connection into the GWR. There seems to be a bay platform facing Maesteg. Otherwise the infrastructure needs sorting which has more obvious cost.

I know that delay repay is comparatively low, but theoretically how long until all these delays add up to more than the infrastructure cost?

I am not sure there is anything wrong with the Swanline paths. Possibly run it a couple of minutes earlier at most to mitigate the Paddington catching it up outside Cardiff, but they only seem to suffer from reactionary delay, they keep time otherwise. Theoretically it will be decades before delay repay adds up to the infrastructure costs.

 

[Jez]

The Swanline trains have always been very tightly timed around the fast trains. They used to leave Swansea at xx10 about 18 minutes ahead of the GWR train. By Bridgend the GWR was only about 5 minutes behind the Swanline. Now its been changed to around xx05/xx06 as the GWR of course leaves Swansea earlier than it did. But its the same issue with roughly the same headway from Swansea. If the Swanline is even a few minutes late by Bridgend it risks the performance of the GWR train.

It doesnt help that the departure of the Manchester/Cardiff fast trains is all over the place now. It used to be almost always xx55 from Swansea. Now on a weekday we have departures from Swansea to Manchester/Cardiff at 0852, 0952, 1055, 1152, 1255, 1400, 1448, 1601, 1650. So its not very consistent. If it was a regular departure time of say xx52 for the fast TFW service to Manchester or Cardiff then perhaps the Swanline could go a bit earlier at say xx02 to give it a bit more padding in the timetable. When they are formed of pairs of 153s especially the timings are tight. Not so bad when its a 150. Of course an earlier arrival into Cardiff would also depend on what paths there are at Cardiff Central too unless it was just held outside Cardiff a few minutes for a pathing allowance. Cardiff seems very congested recently. When I was there on Thursday a late arrival from Manchester was blocking a platform which meant the Milford Haven from the depot was late arriving and departing. Of course this would have been a through train before the December TT change but that's another discussion!

Hopefully when Swanline goes hourly (meant to be this December but might be delayed now?) it will be better timed. However the extra stops between Bridgend and Cardiff making them half hourly could cause problems.

As for who would pay the delay repay, well I assume GWR would pay their customers the delay repay and claim it back from TFW if it was their fault they were delayed.

 

[anthony263]

The Swanline trains have always been very tightly timed around the fast trains. They used to leave Swansea at xx10 about 18 minutes ahead of the GWR train. By Bridgend the GWR was only about 5 minutes behind the Swanline. Now its been changed to around xx05/xx06 as the GWR of course leaves Swansea earlier than it did. But its the same issue with roughly the same headway from Swansea. If the Swanline is even a few minutes late by Bridgend it risks the performance of the GWR train.

It doesnt help that the departure of the Manchester/Cardiff fast trains is all over the place now. It used to be almost always xx55 from Swansea. Now on a weekday we have departures from Swansea to Manchester/Cardiff at 0852, 0952, 1055, 1152, 1255, 1400, 1448, 1601, 1650. So its not very consistent. If it was a regular departure time of say xx52 for the fast TFW service to Manchester or Cardiff then perhaps the Swanline could go a bit earlier at say xx02 to give it a bit more padding in the timetable. When they are formed of pairs of 153s especially the timings are tight. Not so bad when its a 150. Of course an earlier arrival into Cardiff would also depend on what paths there are at Cardiff Central too unless it was just held outside Cardiff a few minutes for a pathing allowance. Cardiff seems very congested recently. When I was there on Thursday a late arrival from Manchester was blocking a platform which meant the Milford Haven from the depot was late arriving and departing. Of course this would have been a through train before the December TT change but that's another discussion!

Hopefully when Swanline goes hourly (meant to be this December but might be delayed now?) it will be better timed. However the extra stops between Bridgend and Cardiff making them half hourly could cause problems.

As for who would pay the delay repay, well I assume GWR would pay their customers the delay repay and claim it back from TFW if it was their fault they were delayed.

Swanline was from this December supposed to be hourly and leave Swansea 5 minutes behind the gwr london train

 

[Jez]

Swanline was from this December supposed to be hourly and leave Swansea 5 minutes behind the gwr london train

That will be good timings better than currently. However im not sure if it will happen in December, they made no reference to the Swanline service in the statement they issued about December timetable last week.

Another thing i notice is the Swanline sometimes gets randomly dropped from the timetable. Last week the 1105 was removed entirely not just cancelled on the day, quite a few times. I don't understand why Swanline stops don't then get picked up by the fast train rather than leave the Swanline stations (aside from Pyle) with a gap of 4 hours between 0905 and 1305. I was planning on catching it so annoyingly i had to make my own arrangements to get to Neath as there was no sign of any road replacement transport or stops being picked up on the fast train.