Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[Bald Rick]

The current journey is only averaging 60-70mph, getting more of the mainline to 100mph would be a much better spend of cash.

Thereisnt really anywhere left that can easily go to 100. London side of Chelmsford it’s 90 for signal spacing to get the 2 min headways, country side of Chelmsford it’s 100 except for Colchester (90, but everything stops), Manningtree for the station, junction and Cattawade viaduct, Ipswich for the tunnel and station (but everything stops) the down at Stowmarket (90) for the loop pointwork and the station and the approaches to Trowse.

Even if you made Manningtree 100, at considerable expense (it would need a new alignment round the back of Manningtree, and a new viaduct) it would save a half minute at most, and nothing for anything stopping there.

As ever with the Norwich services, by far the cheapest and best value solution to speeding up the Norwich services is to take out stops.

 

[Alfie1014]

The xx:00s down from Liverpool Street off peak regularly get to Colchester in 42-43 mins but even then are checked by the preceding xx:36 stopper to Colchester Tn which is slowed by the approach control into platform 1. I’ve often wondered if there’s any possibility of having flashing yellows here for the divergence, or does the complication of having the connection on to the goods line and CS just before make any signalling alterations impractical?

 

[dk1]

The xx:00s down from Liverpool Street off peak regularly get to Colchester in 42-43 mins but even then are checked by the preceding xx:36 stopper to Colchester Tn which is slowed by the approach control into platform 1. I’ve often wondered if there’s any possibility of having flashing yellows here for the divergence, or does the complication of having the connection on to the goods line and CS just before make any signalling alterations impractical?

Sorry I misread your comment, maybe that is the reason.

 

[Railperf]

There isnt really anywhere left that can easily go to 100. London side of Chelmsford it’s 90 for signal spacing to get the 2 min headways, country side of Chelmsford it’s 100 except for Colchester (90, but everything stops), Manningtree for the station, junction and Cattawade viaduct, Ipswich for the tunnel and station (but everything stops) the down at Stowmarket (90) for the loop pointwork and the station and the approaches to Trowse.

Even if you made Manningtree 100, at considerable expense (it would need a new alignment round the back of Manningtree, and a new viaduct) it would save a half minute at most, and nothing for anything stopping there.

As ever with the Norwich services, by far the cheapest and best value solution to speeding up the Norwich services is to take out stops.

By far the biggest acceleration would come by reducing the 15 minute stratford to shenfield timing for stopping services to nearer 13 minutes. That would clear the Southend service off the mainline and into Shenfield P4 a little earlier Also the timings for stoppers north of Chelmsford to Colchester can be reduced by at least three minutes - and that's based on real timings. The Braintree for example has to come to almost a complete stand before the signal clears for it to enter the loop platform - - with a hard driven 745 - starting to see double yellows behind. A more efficient signalling solution here would see the Braintree able to approach the loop braking in time for the switch.

Whether it is 745 or 755 in use - there are just too many frequent stops for the Intercity services. From Norwich its 6 mins to Diss, 10 mins to Stowmarket, 9-10 min to Ipswich, 8 mins to Manningtree and then 6.5 minutes to Colchester. Fortunately the 745's 755's can reach even time within a couple of minutes but they are not running at 100mph long enough to raise the average speed much over 60/70mph when you include dwell times. Essentially you need to be stopping at Colchester and Ipswich only - maybe Chelmsford to get a fast service

The approach to Manningtree Northbound is slow because the crossing is usually open and so the trains are seeing double yellows not long after Ardleigh to a red light at the end of the platform until the crossing is closed and route cleared. This adds unnnecessary time to the station approach. A similar issue at Kelvedon southbound, where the approach is much slower and longer due to the red signal at the end of the platform. When 1PXX services have stopped there, they have been much quicker as the crossing is usually open expecting a through train.

 

[306024]

Even if you made Manningtree 100, at considerable expense (it would need a new alignment round the back of Manningtree, and a new viaduct) it would save a half minute at most, and nothing for anything stopping there.

That should excite the Dedham Vale fraternity I may even have to amend my avatar

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2023 ==

The approach to Manningtree Northbound is slow because the crossing is usually open and so the trains are seeing double yellows not long after Ardleigh to a red light at the end of the platform until the crossing is closed and route cleared. This adds unnnecessary time to the station approach. A similar issue at Kelvedon southbound, where the approach is much slower and longer due to the red signal at the end of the platform. When 1PXX services have stopped there, they have been much quicker as the crossing is usually open expecting a through train.

CO189 will show two yellows with the gates raised, but they are nearly always lowered by the time the driver encounters CO191 (one signal before Manningtree) and the route cleared, so you are not running in on a red. Rarely does that happen in my experience.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2023 ==

The xx:00s down from Liverpool Street off peak regularly get to Colchester in 42-43 mins but even then are checked by the preceding xx:36 stopper to Colchester Tn which is slowed by the approach control into platform 1. I’ve often wondered if there’s any possibility of having flashing yellows here for the divergence, or does the complication of having the connection on to the goods line and CS just before make any signalling alterations impractical?

I was once told the pointwork was designed for 50mph, looks like it but I’m no track engineer. Yes a good idea if practical.

None of which is particularly 755 relevant, but having to use them on the Norwich service makes it all a bit of a muddle.

 

[Railperf]

Just trying to make sense of the diagram Mon to Fri

There are nine dedicated class 745 Stansted diagrams - one of which starts at Norwich and one which ends there.

There is a diagram starting from Norwich 05:05 to Liverpool which forms the 07:23 to Stansted return and another two Stansted return trips before switching back to Intercity with the 14:30 to Norwich.

The morning Liverpool Street 05:10 diagram to Stansted return resumes Norwich Intercity turns with the 07:30 from Liverpool Street

A morning diagram starting 6:25 from Liverpool Street does two Norwich return trips, then switches to Stansted in the evening peak 16:10.

Then there seem to be eight dedicated Intercity diagrams - two of which are allocated to multiple 755 workings.

I make that 20 diagrams in total - 18 allocated to 745's, the renaining two allocated to multiple 755.

Today, part time trainspotter website
reports three 745's unallocated. Along with a pair of unallocated 755/3's and seemingly four 755/4's.

That suggests either 720 covering one Stansted diagram unless a third pair of 755's are out covering for the missing 745!

Any errors let me know .

Just as well there are plenty of spare 755 that can be used to London. With Stansted still on 4 trains per hour in the peak, and some Norwich diagrams missing..one can only conclude that the 745/755 fleet would be very stretched if those trains are reinstated. Never mind N in 90!

 

[Class 170101]

The Braintree for example has to come to almost a complete stand before the signal clears for it to enter the loop platform - - with a hard driven 745 - starting to see double yellows behind. A more efficient signalling solution here would see the Braintree able to approach the loop braking in time for the switch.

Isn't that driven by signalling standards the diverging route to the Braintree platform is significantly slower than the route to the Down Main and Platform 3? Also it will depend if the route is set round to Braintree which I believe is a 15mph restricted curve plus foot crossing?

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Just trying to make sense of the diagram Mon to Fri

There are nine dedicated class 745 Stansted diagrams - one of which starts at Norwich and one which ends there.

There is a diagram starting from Norwich 05:05 to Liverpool which forms the 07:23 to Stansted return and another two Stansted return trips before switching back to Intercity with the 14:30 to Norwich.

The morning Liverpool Street 05:10 diagram to Stansted return resumes Norwich Intercity turns with the 07:30 from Liverpool Street

A morning diagram starting 6:25 from Liverpool Street does two Norwich return trips, then switches to Stansted in the evening peak 16:10.

Then there seem to be eight dedicated Intercity diagrams - two of which are allocated to multiple 755 workings.

I make that 20 diagrams in total - 18 allocated to 745's, the renaining two allocated to multiple 755.

Today, part time trainspotter website
reports three 745's unallocated. Along with a pair of unallocated 755/3's and seemingly four 755/4's.

That suggests either 720 covering one Stansted diagram unless a third pair of 755's are out covering for the missing 745!

Any errors let me know .

Just as well there are plenty of spare 755 that can be used to London. With Stansted still on 4 trains per hour in the peak, and some Norwich diagrams missing..one can only conclude that the 745/755 fleet would be very stretched if those trains are reinstated. Never mind N in 90!

We know we have 745/1 on the InterCity but on the flip side, how often are 745/0 on the Stansted Express? I'd be surprised if they weren't ending up there.

I'm suspecting the current mix of getting first class or not becoming inconsistent (advertised or not) on first refurbishment (a few years away I know) the fleet will merge into one, Stansted exp units will get tables and intercity will lose first class as so few will actually buy tickets for it.
Today if you buy first class it limits the times you can return on.

 

[Railperf]

Isn't that driven by signalling standards the diverging route to the Braintree platform is significantly slower than the route to the Down Main and Platform 3? Also it will depend if the route is set round to Braintree which I believe is a 15mph restricted curve plus foot crossing?

Possibly. It's a shame we don't have a form of ATP to protect these sorts of situations. It would allow the train to brake within a set braking curve and improve efficiency at this location and others that are similar.

I've just taken a returm trip from LST to NRW and back on a 755 triple unit. These accelerate like the proverbial you know what. Issues en route include - catching up the Southend at Stratford and then Shenfield, catching the Braintree up - having to brake at Hatfield Peverel.
Movements in Ipswich station prevent a clear run- in there. And almost catching up the Peterborough service at Haughley. Just proves how congested the GEML is and how the Intercity services have to be regulated to fit in around the regional services because there are essentially only two tracks between Stratford and Haughley to serve all these trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2023 ==

We know we have 745/1 on the InterCity but on the flip side, how often are 745/0 on the Stansted Express? I'd be surprised if they weren't ending up there.

I'm suspecting the current mix of getting first class or not becoming inconsistent (advertised or not) on first refurbishment (a few years away I know) the fleet will merge into one, Stansted exp units will get tables and intercity will lose first class as so few will actually buy tickets for it.
Today if you buy first class it limits the times you can return on.

The part timespotter website publishes expected allocations for each day ..subject to operations on the day. There seems to be no guarantee what units will appear. There seems to be an intention to keep Stansted units on the WA side, but clearly the diagrams suggest that is impossible. And if an Intercity unit ends up on Stansted services, it looks likely to stay there until it can be reaĺlocated to a different Intercity diagram.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2023 ==

The xx:00s down from Liverpool Street off peak regularly get to Colchester in 42-43 mins but even then are checked by the preceding xx:36 stopper to Colchester Tn which is slowed by the approach control into platform 1. I’ve often wondered if there’s any possibility of having flashing yellows here for the divergence, or does the complication of having the connection on to the goods line and CS just before make any signalling alterations impractical?

For reference - the fastest time we have recorded so far is 38.5 mins on a clear run.

 

[Class 170101]

Movements in Ipswich station prevent a clear run- in there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2023 ==

That should have lessened as Freightliner stable much less on the Down Side at Ipswich since their new facility opened on the Up Side.

The part timespotter website publishes expected allocations for each day ..subject to operations on the day. There seems to be no guarantee what units will appear. There seems to be an intention to keep Stansted units on the WA side, but clearly the diagrams suggest that is impossible. And if an Intercity unit ends up on Stansted services, it looks likely to stay there until it can be reaĺlocated to a different Intercity diagram.

Some services will be booked 745/0 to Stansted to release the 745/1s to return to Crown Point for maintenance.

 

[dk1]

Should 745/1s on StanEx develop a fault they are randomly swapped with 745/0 on a Norwich circut to keep them nearer Crown Point unfortunate as that is.

 

[RuddA]

Wonderful stuff. Hope she thoroughly enjoys as much as I did aged 10 on an overnight train to Gatwick from Yarmouth in 1978. The booked wait at Ipswich loading mail was magical.

Made the 0800 on Sunday as my daughters were awake early with excitement. Train was busy but seats were available, so easy for everyone to walk through the train. Stansted unit substituted on the way back and we did miss the tables. Family had an enjoyable day out and so nice not to drive. Will look out for more hare fares in future.

Noticed that some coaches had additions to the outside cameras to reduce the glare. Is that a trial modification as only on 1/2 set and looked a bit messy.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

On Friday, three Stansteds were 745/0 while two Norwiches were triple 755 and one was 745/1.

 

[dk1]

On Friday, three Stansteds were 745/0 while two Norwiches were triple 755 and one was 745/1.

The way it goes I’m afraid. 755s are not used on Stansted Express duties.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2023 ==

Made the 0800 on Sunday as my daughters were awake early with excitement. Train was busy but seats were available, so easy for everyone to walk through the train. Stansted unit substituted on the way back and we did miss the tables. Family had an enjoyable day out and so nice not to drive. Will look out for more hare fares in future.

Noticed that some coaches had additions to the outside cameras to reduce the glare. Is that a trial modification as only on 1/2 set and looked a bit messy.

I’m not totally sure about the cameras if I’m honest. Possibly. Them not working or severe glare doesn’t affect us Anglia Railway drivers on the GEML or our regional routes as we never operate without a guard.

Glad you all had a great day. The Hare fares are ridiculously good value.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The way it goes I’m afraid. 755s are not used on Stansted Express duties.

I have no complaints, merely I think the two separate specifications are pointless.

 

[dk1]

I have no complaints, merely I think the two separate specifications are pointless.

All to do with crews and operational practicalities.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I have no complaints, merely I think the two separate specifications are pointless.

Seemed a good idea to have more luggage/seats on the Stansted express at the expense of first and buffet on the ICs but as COVID hit and more diagrams needed for for the ICs reality hit and we have to use what we have.

 

[dk1]

Seemed a good idea to have more luggage/seats on the Stansted express at the expense of first and buffet on the ICs but as COVID hit and more diagrams needed for for the ICs reality hit and we have to use what we have.

We are now back to soaring passenger numbers at Stansted Airport as well as ever climbing commuter/first class passengers on Intercity along with back to normal and above leisure traffic.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

We are now back to soaring passenger numbers at Stansted Airport as well as ever climbing commuter/first class passengers on Intercity along with back to normal and above leisure traffic.

Yes but I'm not certain that message has got back to the dft yet, I know last few weeks my commute from Norwich, the trains are basically been full from Manningtree (not saying full and standing necessarily but certainly very few seats left).

Question is, will some of the franchise proposals come back into GAs thoughts

 

[dk1]

Yes but I'm not certain that message has got back to the dft yet, I know last few weeks my commute from Norwich, the trains are basically been full from Manningtree (not saying full and standing necessarily but certainly very few seats left).

Question is, will some of the franchise proposals come back into GAs thoughts

I doubt franchise proposals will come back personally. Remember there are far more seats on a 745 than the previous MK3 sets.

 

[RunRepeat]

The way it goes I’m afraid. 755s are not used on Stansted Express duties.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2023 ==



I’m not totally sure about the cameras if I’m honest. Possibly. Them not working or severe glare doesn’t affect us Anglia Railway drivers on the GEML or our regional routes as we never operate without a guard.

Glad you all had a great day. The Hare fares are ridiculously good value.

I think the addition to the bodyside camera set up helps deflect debris away from the lens helping with visibility.

 

[dk1]

I think the addition to the bodyside camera set up helps deflect debris away from the lens helping with visibility.

The cleaners (& many guards) are very good and wipe as they walk the platform.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I doubt franchise proposals will come back personally. Remember there are far more seats on a 745 than the previous MK3 sets.

I was just looking back to 2017 - there were 7 departures to Norwich from Liverpool Street between 17:00 and 19:00 which surprised me, I think there are 5 now.

 

[dk1]

I was just looking back to 2017 - there were 7 departures to Norwich from Liverpool Street between 17:00 and 19:00 which surprised me, I think there are 5 now.

Yes the 18:10 Intercity still hasn’t returned. The 17:02 never really counted as was the 12-car 321s which only ran through due to insufficient pathing to turn back at Stowmarket. Seating capacity doesn’t suffer too much due to greater capacity on the 745 fleet.

 

[Alfie1014]

Spotted 755404 passing Wivenhoe today on what was presumably 5N94 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:75232/2023-07-05/detailed There was also a previous working about an hour earlier from Clacton CSD to Colchester. Swap for maintenance or mods at Clacton?

 

[dk1]

Spotted 755404 passing Wivenhoe today on what was presumably 5N94 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:75232/2023-07-05/detailed There was also a previous working about an hour earlier from Clacton CSD to Colchester. Swap for maintenance or mods at Clacton?

Diesel engine replacement program is taking place at Clacton depot as has spare capacity.

 

[trebor79]

Diesel engine replacement program is taking place at Clacton depot as has spare capacity.

Crikey, are the engines worn out already of is there some design/build flaw being addressed? Wouldn't be the first time Deutz have produced a duff batch of engines (familiar with an issue from another sector).

 

[dk1]

Crikey, are the engines worn out already of is there some design/build flaw being addressed? Wouldn't be the first time Deutz have produced a duff batch of engines (familiar with an issue from another sector).

It’s just a flaw that Deutz needed to address.

 

[Railperf]

It’s just a flaw that Deutz needed to address.

How common is it for a 755 to be running with an engine out?

 

[cnjb8]

Apologies if this was mentioned before but there was either a 745 or 755 (I'm guessing the latter and I was zooming past on a train so I didn't see the number or car length) in Derby Etches Park on Wednesday. Any idea why it's there?