Potential utilisation of ROG Class 93s?

[brad465]

mods note - split from this thread

What is the plan for whatever 93s displace? It sounds like 66s are being displaced from key services, when I initially thought it would be 37s. Is the plan to move 93s onto some 66 services, then the 66s move to take over 37s, if there's gauge clearance?

 

[Class15]

If there's a dodgy wagon onboard and the train is too long for all the passing loops, then the calculation for the freight train and every other service behind it goes up by several hours

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What is the plan for whatever 93s displace? It sounds like 66s are being displaced from key services, when I initially thought it would be 37s. Is the plan to move 93s onto some 66 services, then the 66s move to take over 37s, if there's gauge clearance?

In a centrally managed rail network, yes. But ROG don’t have 66s which makes that unlikely.

 

[Snow1964]

What is the plan for whatever 93s displace? It sounds like 66s are being displaced from key services, when I initially thought it would be 37s. Is the plan to move 93s onto some 66 services, then the 66s move to take over 37s, if there's gauge clearance?

From memory at time of ordering, growth was mentioned. There is a diminishing supply of 66s from abroad. So might not be to displace older locos. But as the 93 is a 110mph loco, more likely to be replacing the 35 year old class 90s

As for a cascade, rebuilds and re-engine of older locos make it difficult to generalise on what will be next to leave, but the oldest class 66s are now approaching 25th birthday

 

[Nottingham59]

I do find it a little remarkable that people think a business would be spending millions of pounds a pop on an asset without a very clear idea of what work they were planned to do for more than the next few years.

At the time of ordering, there was talk about developing a new fleet of intermodal flats, able to run at around 100mph. But I've seen no mention of that possibility recently, though 100mph intermodals are used on the continent.

Re-engineering Rail Freight - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article Unlike most passenger train operators, rail freight must operate at a profit since it gets no government support. As it works to tight financial margins, it is difficult to justify large capital investment without a guaranteed market. In such an environment, it is...

www.railengineer.co.uk

"the Class 93 could offer a more dynamic operation for modal freight, with an increased frequency of shorter trains running at higher speeds. This would also require faster container flats, for which ROG are also in discussions with various bodies to develop a high-speed freight bogie. In addition to being a more commercially attractive operating model, this would enable more freight trains to be run on a busy railway."

 

[D365]

From memory at time of ordering, growth was mentioned. There is a diminishing supply of 66s from abroad. So might not be to displace older locos. But as the 93 is a 110mph loco, more likely to be replacing the 35 year old class 90s

ROG don’t own or operate any Class 66 or Class 90 locomotives. Unless ROG intends to lease their 93s to established FOCs for this purpose…

 

[zwk500]

ROG don’t own or operate any Class 66 or Class 90 locomotives. Unless ROG intends to lease their 93s to established FOCs for this purpose…

Perfectly possible, of course.

 

[The_Train]

Wasn't the possibility of leasing loco's out why there is the chance to extend order to 30 loco's?

 

[Sm5]

Network codes can be changed. Admittedly it would be politically difficult to do so when FoCs depend on Class 66 traction. But when class 93 and (even more so) the Class 99 come into service, then it will become extremely difficult to justify allowing diesel traction on the WCML north of Crewe. Or anywhere where passenger timetabling is restricted by slow freight paths under the wires.

plenty of 86/90/92s in storage that could be displacing 66’s north of Crewe, its a choice of the operators not to.

 

[Class15]

From memory at time of ordering, growth was mentioned. There is a diminishing supply of 66s from abroad. So might not be to displace older locos. But as the 93 is a 110mph loco, more likely to be replacing the 35 year old class 90s

As for a cascade, rebuilds and re-engine of older locos make it difficult to generalise on what will be next to leave, but the oldest class 66s are now approaching 25th birthday

Given as the 90s are far younger than many diesel loco classes, so I don’t see them being replaced by 93s. I can see the 37s, 56s etc. being shown the door

 

[zwk500]

Given as the 90s are far younger than many diesel loco classes, so I don’t see them being replaced by 93s. I can see the 37s, 56s etc. being shown the door

90s are still 40 years old though, whether or not diesels are older. And some of them have done lots of high-speed running with Virgin or Anglia, before going to the freight side. 37s are very light RA, which the 93s don't match (37s are 100t over 6 axles = 16.67t/axle, 93s are 85t/4 axles = 21.25t/axle. 56s maybe.

 

[Class15]

90s are still 40 years old though, whether or not diesels are older. And some of them have done lots of high-speed running with Virgin or Anglia, before going to the freight side. 37s are very light RA, which the 93s don't match (37s are 100t over 6 axles = 16.67t/axle, 93s are 85t/4 axles = 21.25t/axle. 56s maybe.

40? I didn’t realise 1987 to 2023 was 40! My mistake. It would be a tragedy if they are withdrawn before the 56s etc.

 

[zwk500]

40? I didn’t realise 1987 to 2023 was 40! My mistake. It would be a tragedy if they are withdrawn before the 56s etc.

36 years is within 10% of 40. Bearing in mind the 93s are going to take a couple of years to get in squadron service.

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It would be a tragedy if they are withdrawn before the 56s etc.

Tragedy, why? They're different locos and the railway has different needs of their roles. The class 08s, 37s etc have outlasted a fair few classes by occupying useful niches.

 

[Class15]

36 years is within 10% of 40. Bearing in mind the 93s are going to take a couple of years to get in squadron service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2023 ==


Tragedy, why? They're different locos and the railway has different needs of their roles. The class 08s, 37s etc have outlasted a fair few classes by occupying useful niches.

It’s a tragedy because those 90s could be used vice-66s on trains that are fully under the wire. Then the 66s could replace 56s. I like 56s but if I was running the freight sector they’d be amongst the first to go (behind 37s, 47s)

 

[D365]

It’s a tragedy because those 90s could be used vice-66s on trains that are fully under the wire. Then the 66s could replace 56s. I like 56s but if I was running the freight sector they’d be amongst the first to go (behind 37s, 47s)

You're right that running diesel locomotives on 100% (or even 95%) electrified diagrams is a shame, but I don't see why you feel an urgency for FOCs to withdraw their Class 56 fleets.

 

[Class15]

You're right that running diesel locomotives on 100% (or even 95%) electrified diagrams is a shame, but I don't see why you feel an urgency for FOCs to withdraw their Class 56 fleets.

I don’t but they should be gone before the 90s, surely!

 

[D365]

I don’t but they should be gone before the 90s, surely!

All are privately owned and operated by different FOCs.