Irregularity report?

[transportphoto]

I'm panicking a bit and looking at all options to minimise the consequences as you say. I appreciate all information

Please take a breather and come back with an honest account of the situation.

 

[Papyrus]

And, if I may say so, seemingly because they dislike the manner in which you have presented yourself, other regular contributors have unusually placed the emphasis in their answers on retribution and implied oh anticipated an inevitable conviction.

However in truth I think all here would agree that in practice it is very rare indeed to see a conviction pursued over an out of court settlement (even if that may be painfully difficult to demand) including in the most egregious cases of dishonesty, if the person accused cooperates and presents themselves to the railway company in a particular formula.

Usually, when people haven’t reacted angrily as I suspect some commentators perhaps understandably did to you, the emphasis in contributions is helping you get that outcome rather than the above which is, dare I say it, a touch judgmental.

 

[skyhigh]

I'm panicking a bit and looking at all options to minimise the consequences as you say. I appreciate all information

To be blunt:

You need to grow up, accept that your ticket was not valid and you have no mitigation.

It is completely ridiculous to simply claim "ah well there's no proof that I used it". I'm going to take a guess that you knew full well what you were doing and were going to reuse the ticket as many times as you could.

It is again completely ridiculous to even suggest that you entered the barriers at Leeds to use a shop. Simply because the 2 shops inside the barriers have comparable outlets on the concourse... And I'd bet there are inward scans at the gateline which match up with you making a return journey.

Add in the way that you claim you "in fright" gave an old address, wrong name and date of birth (one of those might be plausible as a mistake, all 3, not so much) and are now wondering if the court will be able to track you and it paints a picture.

The bottom line is this forum is here to give advice and assistance. You seem to be clinging to making the excuse that your ticket was valid as you think they don't have any proof otherwise. We simply cannot suggest or endorse you telling falsehoods to try and get out of a problem of your own making.

 

[30907]

I am sure we would love to know

I'm panicking a bit and looking at all options to minimise the consequences as you say. I appreciate all information

The best way to minimise the consequences is to wait for the letter to arrive and admit that you travelled without a valid ticket (on the occasion you were caught), apologise and promise not to repeat the offence, and ask if they would kindly consider settling out of court. There is a reasonable chance that the train operator will offer to do so.
If not, you will be prosecuted for travelling without a valid ticket, which will result in a fine in addition.

BTW, I'd love to know whereabouts in the world it is legal to use a return ticket multiple times

 

[rail-train]

I am sure we would love to know

The best way to minimise the consequences is to wait for the letter to arrive and admit that you travelled without a valid ticket (on the occasion you were caught), apologise and promise not to repeat the offence, and ask if they would kindly consider settling out of court. There is a reasonable chance that the train operator will offer to do so.
If not, you will be prosecuted for travelling without a valid ticket, which will result in a fine in addition.

BTW, I'd love to know whereabouts in the world it is legal to use a return ticket multiple times

thanks, can you maybe direct me to an example response that I can use? Does it matter if they go with Byelaws or S.5(3) OF THE REGULATION OF RAILWAYS ACT 1889 for my response?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2023 ==

And, if I may say so, seemingly because they dislike the manner in which you have presented yourself, other regular contributors have unusually placed the emphasis in their answers on retribution and implied oh anticipated an inevitable conviction.

However in truth I think all here would agree that in practice it is very rare indeed to see a conviction pursued over an out of court settlement (even if that may be painfully difficult to demand) including in the most egregious cases of dishonesty, if the person accused cooperates and presents themselves to the railway company in a particular formula.

Usually, when people haven’t reacted angrily as I suspect some commentators perhaps understandably did to you, the emphasis in contributions is helping you get that outcome rather than the above which is, dare I say it, a touch judgmental.

thanks for understanding. some people acting like I stole that money from them. Also same question, can you show what formula that should be?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2023 ==

thanks, can you maybe direct me to an example response that I can use? Does it matter if they go with Byelaws or S.5(3) OF THE REGULATION OF RAILWAYS ACT 1889 for my response?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2023 ==


thanks for understanding. some people acting like I stole that money from them. Also same question, can you show what formula that should be?

Will saying I was ready to buy a ticket on board help me in any way?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Will saying I was ready to buy a ticket on board help me in any way?

No, because York has a ticket office and multiple ticket machines. There was no valid reason to be on the train without a valid ticket

 

[rail-train]

No, because York has a ticket office and multiple ticket machines. There was no valid reason to be on the train without a valid ticket

sure, but is it a 'mitigating' condition showing my remorse?

 

[SuspectUsual]

sure, but is it a 'mitigating' condition showing my remorse?

Honestly? No. Why not? Because if it were true, you'd have gone to the unpaid fares people at Leeds. "Pay when challenged" isn't remorse

 

[Starmill]

However in truth I think all here would agree that in practice it is very rare indeed to see a conviction pursued over an out of court settlement (even if that may be painfully difficult to demand) including in the most egregious cases of dishonesty, if the person accused cooperates and presents themselves to the railway company in a particular formula.

Unfortunately this isn't actually so rare. However, you're absolutely right that there's every reason to believe that this case can in fact be settled without the need for Court.

However, people have advised that several times now and the OP is giving the appearance of not accepting it. That's obviously 100% their right but I don't think anyone here is going to be willing to advise if the OP doesn't accept that. The forum's rules also wouldn't allow the giving of advice on how to break the law.

Sadly, the OP may also be guilty of an additional offence in relation to giving false details.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Will saying I was ready to buy a ticket on board help me in any way?

Thought you'd gone back through the barriers at Leeds to visit the on platform shops. Is that no longer the case?

thanks for understanding. some people acting like I stole that money from them.

More likely that some people have possibly sussed that you're bullsh**ting them.

sure, but is it a 'mitigating' condition showing my remorse?

What remorse? Actions have consequences. Time to face up to them.

 

[Starmill]

Honestly? No. Why not? Because if it were true, you'd have gone to the unpaid fares people at Leeds. "Pay when challenged" isn't remorse

If it were accepted as sincere it would likely be mitigation at Court. Mitigation isn't likely to be available for a settlement out of court, certainly here the OP is in no position to negotiate.

 

[rail-train]

If it were accepted as sincere it would likely be mitigation at Court. Mitigation isn't likely to be available for a settlement out of court, certainly here the OP is in no position to negotiate.

Ok. How can I convince them not to prosecute then?

 

[Starmill]

Ok. How can I convince them not to prosecute then?

As above you can't at the moment. You just need to wait for them to make contact.

 

[30907]

thanks, can you maybe direct me to an example response that I can use? Does it matter if they go with Byelaws or S.5(3) OF THE REGULATION OF RAILWAYS ACT 1889 for my response?

I suggest you follow the advice regularly given by forum member @Hadders, e.g.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/unintentional-fare-evasion.250580/#post-6284034

You will have to lread the letter carefully when it arrives, but I would expect Byelaw 18 to be used if it comes to prosecution, as it is straightforward to prove. They are unlikely to worry too much about the false details you gave IMO.

RoRA requires them to prove intent - if they did you would end up with a bigger fine and a criminal record. Giving a fictitious account of how you exited Leeds station 3 times without travelling from York, however ingenious, might be deemed to show intent, which is further reason for not replying along the lines you have been testing

sure, but is it a 'mitigating' condition showing my remorse?

No, because you attempted to travel with the invalid ticket!

 

[skyhigh]

Ok. How can I convince them not to prosecute then?

Engage with them, apologise for your actions, make it clear you now understand the severity and that it won't happen again and ask to pay the costs they've incurred to conclude the matter.

Bearing in mind the fact you didn't give your correct details (which is an offence) but they're likely able to find them from your account, you might find if you were to proactively contact them to correct the details you gave that would cause them to look more favourably on your case too.

 

[MotCO]

There is an expression in England "if you're in a hole, stop digging". Please accept that you were travelling without a valid ticket, and that you have no real or imaginary mitigations. When communicating with the rail company, please engage positively with them, and show remorse.

Finally, it is quite possible that the rail company's representatives will read this blog and will be able to match the details you have given here with your case. You therefore MUST be truthful if you want to secure the best outcome.

 

[rail-train]

Does anyone else think I should contact them now to correct my details?