Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[dk1]

So the question being avoided, how many 745's (both 0 and 1) are out of use a day, and why?

Only two 745s stopped today at Norwich so 18 are out & about somewhere.

 

[Bald Rick]

So the question being avoided, how many 745's (both 0 and 1) are out of use a day, and why?

Depends what you mean by ‘out of use’

Some will be stopped for planned maintenance or repair. But even with the current diagrams, AIUI there is one diagram set that sees a set do a morning return trip to Liverpool St, spends much of the day at Crown Point (presumably for daytime maintenance) and then back out for a late evening return trip to London before spending the night at Platform 4 in Ipswich.

So while there may well be 18 units out today, there won’t be 18 units out (or being stabled) at any one time.

 

[Railperf]

Probably a better question is how many diagrams are there per day allocated for both intercity and stansted units - and how many are actually being substituted by 755 or 720 units?
Based on @dk1 Reply above, there are two Norwich diagrams that would usually be allocated to 745's that now seem to have pairs or triple 755's allocated to them. And it seems at least one of the Stansted diagrams per day - still only 2 to 3 off peak vice 4 originally - are being filled by 720's.

 

[Energy]

And how is the shortfall in 745/0s caused by Covid?

Speed upgrades would have meant that the service would only need 9 745s, and some of the services were planned for 720s.

Fewer 755s (if there are spare units to be used on Norwich services)

The additional 755s were for additional services (such as Lowestoft to London direct) which never happened.

But isn't that the flaw with such sweeping "big bang" fleet renewals, rather than just replacing stock as it's life expired, that circumstances change.

Is it? Even if they only replaced some of the fleet they'd have still ordered too few 745/0s as they'd still be going of the plan to speed up the services.

 

[Bald Rick]

Speed upgrades would have meant that the service would only need 9 745s, and some of the services were planned for 720s.

But there were no speed upgrades planned or even proposed (there still aren’t). The journey time improvement would have come from a timetable recast. And that hasn’t happened because of Covid.

 

[dk1]

Probably a better question is how many diagrams are there per day allocated for both intercity and stansted units - and how many are actually being substituted by 755 or 720 units?
Based on @dk1 Reply above, there are two Norwich diagrams that would usually be allocated to 745's that now seem to have pairs or triple 755's allocated to them. And it seems at least one of the Stansted diagrams per day - still only 2 to 3 off peak vice 4 originally - are being filled by 720's.

Also of interest is that the 745/1s are the only Stadler trains operated by GA not to have been promoted from the Modern Railways new trains TIN watch. Even thought this is the case they are currently top of the league of those trains still in reliability table and will hopefully move out within the next few months. The 755s gained promotion a good while ago now.

 

[Railperf]

But there were no speed upgrades planned or even proposed (there still aren’t). The journey time improvement would have come from a timetable recast. And that hasn’t happened because of Covid.

Rail upgrade between Norwich and London worth �2.5bn to the east - but Norwich in 90 at least a decade away

Faster Norwich to London trains will boost East Anglia's economy by �2.5bn, experts have estimated – but only five minutes are expected to…

www.edp24.co.uk

 

[dk1]

Rail upgrade between Norwich and London worth �2.5bn to the east - but Norwich in 90 at least a decade away

Faster Norwich to London trains will boost East Anglia's economy by �2.5bn, experts have estimated – but only five minutes are expected to…

www.edp24.co.uk

That was often spoken about in the media back then but Network Rail & anybody in the know never expected anything above 100mph. Although weekend timings are faster some of those on weekdays have actually reduced by 5 or so minutes and that is with excessive dwell times en-route.

 

[Bald Rick]

Rail upgrade between Norwich and London worth �2.5bn to the east - but Norwich in 90 at least a decade away

Faster Norwich to London trains will boost East Anglia's economy by �2.5bn, experts have estimated – but only five minutes are expected to…

www.edp24.co.uk

Sorry, when I said ‘proposed’ I meant ‘proposed within the rail industry’, or (uncharitably) ‘proposed by anyone who understood the issue’. That report was not validated, and neither was it (or anything like it) used as an assumption at the time of the GA refranchising.

 

[RuddA]

They do not get uncoupled once in service. They are prepped as one train then remain together on a 745 diagram. Both the 06:28 and 07:26 are formed thus returning at 09:00 and 10:00 respectively and stay on those circuts all day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2023 ==

Saturdays are similar with no Sundays yet.

Travelling to London on Sunday with Hare fare tickets. If 755s don't run to London on Sundays I presume those trains with no 1st class (08:25 from Norwich) are usually Stansted units without tables. Is that correct?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Travelling to London on Sunday with Hare fare tickets. If 755s don't run to London on Sundays I presume those trains with no 1st class (08:25 from Norwich) are usually Stansted units without tables. Is that correct?

yes that unit proceeds onto

Realtime Trains | 1B52 1054 London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport | 02/07/2023

Real-time train running information for 1B52 1054 departure from London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport on 02/07/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

after that journey

 

[dk1]

Travelling to London on Sunday with Hare fare tickets. If 755s don't run to London on Sundays I presume those trains with no 1st class (08:25 from Norwich) are usually Stansted units without tables. Is that correct?

Yes that’s correct. Often easier to keep them to diagram on Sundays. Announcements on stations now state ‘this service is not booked to have first class’ or something similar too. Be prepared to stand your cuppa on the ledge near your feet or better still sit in an airline seat. There are flip down tables on seat backs.

 

[RuddA]

Thank you @pokemonsuper9 & @dk1 .
Going as a family of 4 (only £44 rtn, excellent value) so may wait until 9 for a table instead. Before your previous post I was hoping it would be a 755 rather than a 745/1.

 

[dk1]

Thank you @pokemonsuper9 & @dk1 .
Going as a family of 4 (only £44 rtn, excellent value) so may wait until 9 for a table instead. Before your previous post I was hoping it would be a 755 rather than a 745/1.

You’re most welcome mate. One of the reasons for using 755s has been mentioned internally as tables but it’s causing some horrendous overcrowding. Surely seats come first.

 

[RuddA]

You’re most welcome mate. One of the reasons for using 755s has been mentioned internally as tables but it’s causing some horrendous overcrowding. Surely seats come first.

Whichever train we take it will be the first time my youngest has been further south than Ipswich on the GEML so she is really looking forward to the trip and going through Ipswich tunnel

 

[dk1]

Whichever train we take it will be the first time my youngest has been further south than Ipswich on the GEML so she is really looking forward to the trip and going through Ipswich tunnel

Wonderful stuff. Hope she thoroughly enjoys as much as I did aged 10 on an overnight train to Gatwick from Yarmouth in 1978. The booked wait at Ipswich loading mail was magical.

 

[RailWonderer]

In some ways Covid bailed them out from a chronic rolling stock shortage.

In the months leading up to covid there was up to 100 short forms a day.

That was due to the MTIN reliability nosediving after GA cut back on maintenance awating the new fleets.

You’re most welcome mate. One of the reasons for using 755s has been mentioned internally as tables but it’s causing some horrendous overcrowding. Surely seats come first.

Makes you wonder how they coped with pairs and triples of 170s pre 2004 (and occasionally after that).

 

[dk1]

That was due to the MTIN reliability nosediving after GA cut back on maintenance awating the new fleets.

Makes you wonder how they coped with pairs and triples of 170s pre 2004 (and occasionally after that).

Single 170 on the 15:00 ex-LivSt to Yarmouth. Remember only 2 coaches of standard class & a buffet counter/conductors office to boot. Trains were much less busy then.

 

[F Great Eastern]

That was due to the MTIN reliability nosediving after GA cut back on maintenance awating the new fleets.

Makes you wonder how they coped with pairs and triples of 170s pre 2004 (and occasionally after that).

Yes but they got it seriously wrong and the rolling stock shortage, already bad, was about to get worse before COVID saved their bacon due to the original rolling stock plan being unrealistic and running late.

 

[Railperf]

That was often spoken about in the media back then but Network Rail & anybody in the know never expected anything above 100mph. Although weekend timings are faster some of those on weekdays have actually reduced by 5 or so minutes and that is with excessive dwell times en-route.

Well, there was plenty of unofficial 110mph running with Class 86's in the early days - in fact most of the RPS GEML fastest times featured loco hauled speeds well in excess of 100mph.

 

[dk1]

Well, there was plenty of unofficial 110mph running with Class 86's in the early days - in fact most of the RPS GEML fastest times featured loco hauled speeds well in excess of 100mph.

Flordon Dip was superb. Some said it was punching 120mph with coaches oscillating & tables shaking. Great days.

 

[Railperf]

You’re most welcome mate. One of the reasons for using 755s has been mentioned internally as tables but it’s causing some horrendous overcrowding. Surely seats come first.

A triple 755 consist comprised of 2 X 755/4 and a single 755/3 isn't too bad,but the triple 755 made up of 2x 755/3 with a single 755/4 is tight. Worse still, the double 755/4 consist is woefully short of seats but still better than no train at all.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Flordon Dip was superb. Some said it was punching 120mph with coaches oscillating & tables shaking. Great days.

Different from today where I guess the whole cab displays would be lighting up like mad, followed by an unpleasant invite in to the managers office

 

[Energy]

But there were no speed upgrades planned or even proposed (there still aren’t). The journey time improvement would have come from a timetable recast. And that hasn’t happened because of Covid.

Thanks for the clarification.

That was often spoken about in the media back then but Network Rail & anybody in the know never expected anything above 100mph. Although weekend timings are faster some of those on weekdays have actually reduced by 5 or so minutes and that is with excessive dwell times en-route.

The current journey is only averaging 60-70mph, getting more of the mainline to 100mph would be a much better spend of cash.

 

[Railperf]

Flordon Dip was superb. Some said it was punching 120mph with coaches oscillating & tables shaking. Great days.

Thanfully i can confirm that the Stadlers don't oscillate and the tables dont shake at 120mph lol

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2023 ==

Thanks for the clarification.

The current journey is only averaging 60-70mph, getting more of the mainline to 100mph would be a much better spend of cash.

A timetable recast to take into account the newer rolling stock better performance and actual SRT's should do the trick..been promised for some time..not looking likely for a while yet.

 

[dk1]

Different from today where I guess the whole cab displays would be lighting up like mad, followed by an unpleasant invite in to the managers office

Wouldn’t be possible with the current fleet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2023 ==

Thanks for the clarification.

The current journey is only averaging 60-70mph, getting more of the mainline to 100mph would be a much better spend of cash.

Not really as it’s already 100mph Norwich to Chelmsford, 85 to Shenfield then 90 to Maryland. Any change on that would be very negligible.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Wouldn’t be possible with the current fleet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2023 ==



Not really as it’s already 100mph Norwich to Chelmsford, 85 to Shenfield then 90 to Maryland. Any change on that would be very negligible.

Depends on if you're measuring infrastructure speed or pathing speed/ reality of congestion but the point is the same,

 

[dk1]

Depends on if you're measuring infrastructure speed or pathing speed/ reality of congestion but the point is the same,

You can’t do much about pathing speed on Mondays to Fridays and partially on Saturdays.

 

[Class 170101]

Liverpool Street Anglia drivers signed them. Also most Senior Conductors & some conductors did too.

Ipswich Mainline drivers and conductors signed Class 321s too.

Liverpool Street drivers have Class 720 work today.

 

[dk1]

Ipswich Mainline drivers and conductors signed Class 321s too.

Liverpool Street drivers have Class 720 work today.

No 321s now lol.

Both us at Norwich & our Ipswich colleagues have nothing to do with 720s.