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Ticket office closures

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142blue

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Having worked in a ticket office I can say to you there are times my takings don't cover my wages

Lots of thumb twiddling and watching stuff on phones

Absolutely needs needs reviewing and using people at the right time and in the right places
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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There does seem a tendency for reducing staff numbers in a number of industries by putting the onus on customers to perform tasks once done by employees. As a comparative to passenger usage of platform mounted ticket machines, the best that I can cite is self-service tills in supermarkets.
 

AdamWW

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We all know now that some jobs don't require being in "the office" and can be done at home. Of course it doesn't have to be at home.

Maybe where you have a member of staff who is underutilised in a ticket office, instead of reading a book they could spend the time not selling tickets doing something useful like answering customer complaints?

With the bonus that you'd actually get someone who knows something about tickets dealing with them...
 

Mcrdvr

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They'll make thousands redundant then eventually busier stations will see staff reappear wearing a GBR uniform employed by an outsourced company on national minimum wage and no pension.
 

sor

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There does seem a tendency for reducing staff numbers in a number of industries by putting the onus on customers to perform tasks once done by employees. As a comparative to passenger usage of platform mounted ticket machines, the best that I can cite is self-service tills in supermarkets.
self checkouts arguably have a place (my Aldi lunchtime experience has improved immeasurably now that I can pay in a few seconds and not have to queue up), the supermarkets won't threaten legal action when their equipment fails, and the most important difference is that they still retain staffed checkouts for whose who need/want to use them.

Aldi in particular seem to have implemented multi skilling rather well, as workers can move from shelf stacking and other tasks to staffing the checkouts when there's a rush on

Is it the case that outsourcing companies do not offer a pension plan to employees?
I gather the railway pension is rather generous, compared to the modern workplace pension schemes that are anything but (they're not defined benefit).
 

whoosh

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overgroundtickets.gif

This is a photo of the London Overground map showing ticket sales in 2022. Very low numbers across the board. Diamond Geezer has looked in detail at the figures, but the fourth-busiest LO ticket office (Enfield Town) only sells an average of 28 tickets per day. Somewhere like Hackney Wick will only sell a ticket on two in every five days. Most travellers would not miss them, especially as staffing levels are generally pretty good, even at odd hours.

There was a trial, (referred to in the last three paragraphs here: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...fice-changes-introduced-due-to-customer-needs) which involved a video link from ticket machines to a remote member of staff. This enabled the staff member to cover more than one station.

Looked a good idea to me, but sadly the trial has ended and gone no further: https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-ar...-an-answer/london-overground-ticket-offices-2

Incidentally, that first article says that Brondesbury's ticket office closed due to the space being required for an accessible lift, so I don't know where the '77' figure of ticket sales there on the map comes from?
 

Mabs

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Staff found staying in their cars when they should be working can fully expect to be dismissed, I would imagine!

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Fair play to you sir! :D
I don't think they'd hire someone to watch the staff. It's already under funded so most likely come and check once a week.

I'm giving you my honest opinion. I think it will become worse especially customers not finding staff especially in a rush.
 

MikeWM

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So, this morning I got to Ely, bought a ticket from the TVM, and then found nothing running to Cambridge due to a signal failure.

30 seconds at the ticket office and I got my cash refunded.

Any ideas how to do that without a ticket office, and how much more complex it will be?
 

Towers

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Having worked in a ticket office I can say to you there are times my takings don't cover my wages

Lots of thumb twiddling and watching stuff on phones

Absolutely needs needs reviewing and using people at the right time and in the right places
This; an honest appraisal from someone who actually does the job. And no doubt you can appreciate that the long term career prospects of the situation you describe are not great? I think this sort of honesty needs to be part of the process. There are quite simply better things that a lot of tix office staff could be doing.
 

Mabs

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So, this morning I got to Ely, bought a ticket from the TVM, and then found nothing running to Cambridge due to a signal failure.

30 seconds at the ticket office and I got my cash refunded.

Any ideas how to do that without a ticket office, and how much more complex it will be?
Without a ticket office. Send the ticket to customer services and give a valid reason and it could take upto two weeks to get a refund.
 

12LDA28C

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It had to come, it's far too archaic for 2023. With all the numerous alternatives there's little real need for manned offices nowadays. A shame, but far too little benefit.

And yet I see a steady stream of people using my local ticket office pretty much all day, due to people not knowing what type of ticket they want, not having confidence to use the machines, asking for timetable / journey planning advice, making seat reservations and so on. If you can explain to me the benefit of taking a member of staff out from behind a counter and standing them next to a ticket machine showing people how to use it then I'd be interested to hear what it is.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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That does not answer the question that I raised in my posting which was specific to outsourcing companies.
Outsourcing companies will have their own pension schemes, good and bad, depending on their size and history.
People who are TUPEd over will continue with railway pensions I expect.
I'd say the railway is now an outlier in having final salary pensions.
Most other businesses ended them a couple of decades ago, at least for new members.
 
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sor

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That does not answer the question that I raised in my posting which was specific to outsourcing companies.
I'd say it does, regardless or whether or not you want to argue the toss over "no pension" vs "no meaningful pension".

You can opt out of the workplace pension schemes, and to be honest if you're on minimum wage you might consider it more worthwhile to have that money in your pocket today. It isn't the bonanza that the DB / final salary schemes of old have turned out to be for anyone who has retired in the last 30 or so years (and largely unavailable to new workers for about the same time)

The outsourced security guard or cleaner won't have anything like what the driver, guard or TOC-employed platform assistant has.
 

Towers

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And yet I see a steady stream of people using my local ticket office pretty much all day, due to people not knowing what type of ticket they want, not having confidence to use the machines, asking for timetable / journey planning advice, making seat reservations and so on. If you can explain to me the benefit of taking a member of staff out from behind a counter and standing them next to a ticket machine showing people how to use it then I'd be interested to hear what it is.
The benefit is fairly obvious; next time the customer knows how to use the machine!
 

12LDA28C

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Do many people still use ticket offices? I travel thousands of miles per month on rail and never do - its all apps or website. Don't want to see anyone out if a job mind and always preferable to have a staffed station than not.

This argument against ticket offices appears to be along the lines of 'I don't use them myself so I don't see why anyone else should do'. Or alternatively 'I'm all right Jack'....

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The benefit is fairly obvious; next time the customer knows how to use the machine!

And while that's happening a queue builds up behind them leading to people either missing their train or just running out of time to buy a ticket and boarding the train without one. Not to mention people who are just after some information, fares and timetable advice etc having to wait until the queue has been cleared, if they can be bothered to wait that long...
 

bramling

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This argument against ticket offices appears to be along the lines of 'I don't use them myself so I don't see why anyone else should do'. Or alternatively 'I'm all right Jack'....

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And while that's happening a queue builds up behind them leading to people either missing their train or just running out of time to buy a ticket and boarding the train without one. Not to mention people who are just after some information, fares and timetable advice etc having to wait until the queue has been cleared, if they can be bothered to wait that long...

To be brutally honest, it’s more a case of ‘they are an easy target as (unlike grades such as driver) they don’t have a lot of leverage, and the government-led industry will do it whether anyone likes it or not, as TFL did’.

Doesn’t make it sit any better with me, though.
 

KGX

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So, this morning I got to Ely, bought a ticket from the TVM, and then found nothing running to Cambridge due to a signal failure.

30 seconds at the ticket office and I got my cash refunded.

Any ideas how to do that without a ticket office, and how much more complex it will be?
TVMs will be going the same way as the ticket office. I'm sure their usage has fell through the floor over the last couple of years.

Once people switch to apps/e-ticketing/registered contactless then it becomes very easy to purchase/amend/refund.

The days of standing in a ten deep queue at a TVM are long gone.
 

JamieL

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This argument against ticket offices appears to be along the lines of 'I don't use them myself so I don't see why anyone else should do'. Or alternatively 'I'm all right Jack'....

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It was merely a comment that I am a regular rail commuter and have never had the requirement to use them. I don't profess to have any knowledge of how many people do use them. Having looked at some of the comments on the thread, some certainly resonate with me - particularly having a member of staff who is readily on hand to deal with issues plus the safety and security aspects - and I would generally support the status quo. I also reject some of the 'union blaming' nonsense espoused earlier in the thread - clearly dinosaur relics from the Thatcher era!
 

HamworthyGoods

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They'll make thousands redundant then eventually busier stations will see staff reappear wearing a GBR uniform employed by an outsourced company on national minimum wage and no pension.

Incorrect - UK registered companies are obliged to provide a pension plan. Yes it might be a different value pension but there won’t no pension.
 

Bald Rick

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So, this morning I got to Ely, bought a ticket from the TVM, and then found nothing running to Cambridge due to a signal failure.

30 seconds at the ticket office and I got my cash refunded.

Any ideas how to do that without a ticket office, and how much more complex it will be?

Easy. Either:

1) you buy it as an e-ticket, and get the refund that way
2) even easier, You check if the train is running before buying a ticket, and don’t even buy it.
 

al78

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There does seem a tendency for reducing staff numbers in a number of industries by putting the onus on customers to perform tasks once done by employees. As a comparative to passenger usage of platform mounted ticket machines, the best that I can cite is self-service tills in supermarkets.
Self service tills are used alongside staffed tills and are superior as there are six tills for one queue making throughput way more efficient (one trundlebunny doesn't hold everyone else up), they take up far less space than the equivalent number of staffed tills, and they only need a couple of staff to provide assistance.

I use a ticket office for buying split tickets for commuting but I wouldn't lose any sleep if I was forced to buy online in advance or use a machine at the station.
 

12LDA28C

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It was merely a comment that I am a regular rail commuter and have never had the requirement to use them. I don't profess to have any knowledge of how many people do use them. Having looked at some of the comments on the thread, some certainly resonate with me - particularly having a member of staff who is readily on hand to deal with issues plus the safety and security aspects - and I would generally support the status quo. I also reject some of the 'union blaming' nonsense espoused earlier in the thread - clearly dinosaur relics from the Thatcher era!

That's fair enough but of course people that use ticket offices are usually not regular rail commuters. They are more likely infrequent travellers who are not quite so au fait with the type of tickets available, the restrictions applicable to their use and routes available to get to an unfamiliar destination.
 

L401CJF

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There does seem a tendency for reducing staff numbers in a number of industries by putting the onus on customers to perform tasks once done by employees. As a comparative to passenger usage of platform mounted ticket machines, the best that I can cite is self-service tills in supermarkets.
I would agree with this. A good example being yesterday I went to Pizza Hut for my daughters birthday, hugely reduced waiting staff (only 1 on plus a manager), order food via your phone using a QR code on the table which took us forever as there were 8 of us - we were all saying how much easier it would be if they could just come over and take our order the old fashioned way!

The closure of ticket offices does concern me, every day I see numerous people queuing up around the network at windows asking complex queries and do wonder how things will work without the offices. Obviously there are some offices at some stations you can see really wouldn't be missed, and understand that these could be reviewed. But major cities, airports and tourist hotspots really ought to keep the offices.

Surprised to see in this thread that Chester office is to close - I overhear a lot of queries at this office in particular when I'm booking out a machine for my shift. The excess fares window at the back of the office on platform 3 is very well used too if the guard hasn't got through the train.
 

MikeWM

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Easy. Either:

1) you buy it as an e-ticket, and get the refund that way
2) even easier, You check if the train is running before buying a ticket, and don’t even buy it.

But I hadn't bought it as an e-ticket, and I'm not going to for a plethora of reasons. Plus I'd gone through the barriers before realising there were no trains running - not a problem for a paper ticket refund, probably rather more effort and explanation for an e-ticket refund.

As for the latter point, the disruption started just as I got to the station, else I wouldn't have walked there in the first place.

--

Without a ticket office. Send the ticket to customer services and give a valid reason and it could take upto two weeks to get a refund.

Yep - 'progress'.
 

HamworthyGoods

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TVMs will be going the same way as the ticket office. I'm sure their usage has fell through the floor over the last couple of years.

Once people switch to apps/e-ticketing/registered contactless then it becomes very easy to purchase/amend/refund.

The days of standing in a ten deep queue at a TVM are long gone.

Indeed Sweden, having already shut all ticket offices, including that at its Capital City - Stockholm Central is now moving onto the next phase of shutting all ticket machines with people without smartphones having to pay a supplement to have their tickets printed at station shops!!
 

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AdamWW

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Indeed Sweden, having already shut all ticket offices, including that at its Capital City - Stockholm Central is now moving onto the next phase of shutting all ticket machines with people without smartphones having to pay a supplement to have their tickets printed at station shops!!

Hmmm. If I've done the conversion correctly, that's a penalty of around £7 (per ticket?) for not having a smartphone. Lovely!
 
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