Are there some potential future uses for class 321s after all..?

[warwickshire]

My thoughts precisely. I'd be interested to know.

mods note - split from here

According to Facebook 321 pages, it's for mileage accumulation and hardback reasons to be handed back, to a certain extent. As 321321 needed various parts, and didn't ran at Ilford from around August 2022 to May 2023.
Not for this thread ideal for a possible reuse one, maybe the 321s have some future???
Until then storage and maybe scrap?.
Who knows?.

 

[Wyrleybart]

According to Facebook 321 pages, it's for mileage accumulation and hardback reasons to be handed back, to a certain extent. As 321321 needed various parts, and didn't ran at Ilford from around August 2022 to May 2023.
Not for this thread ideal for a possible reuse one, maybe the 321s have some future???
Until then storage and maybe scrap?.
Who knows?.

Indeed. Who knows what their future is with the half dozen or so moving to Warrington for storage. It is just that handback involves handing back from TOC "A" to the Rosco in fit condition irrepective of whether the future will be TOC "B" or scrapyard.

 

[D365]

Regarding the amended thread title [before the "split from here"]: is the Varmis Rail unit not currently ”in service”?

 

[fgwrich]

Regarding the amended thread title: is the Varmis Rail unit not currently ”in service”?

It is, and is currently running 36 minutes ahead of schedule about to pass Crewe as I type!

 

[D365]

It is, and is currently running 36 minutes ahead of schedule about to pass Crewe as I type!

So I might suggest a further amendment to your title, @TT-ONR-NRN

 

[Strathclyder]

So I might suggest a further amendment to your title, @TT-ONR-NRN

Would (None in Passenger Service) suffice?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So I might suggest a further amendment to your title, @TT-ONR-NRN

I’ll politely decline as it referring to passenger services should be easily implied.

Edit: Actually I’ll just remove the end bit, not because of Varamis’ silly project, but because it’s unnecessary.

 

[adc82140]

What's the plan for the pile of 321s at Wolverton? Are they all destined for scrap?

 

[Class15]

I’ll politely decline as it referring to passenger services should be easily implied.

Edit: Actually I’ll just remove the end bit, not because of Varamis’ silly project, but because it’s unnecessary.

“Silly”?

 

[DustyBin]

“Silly”?

It looks like a good use of trains with plenty of life left in them, which have found themselves homeless due to the lack of a national rolling stock strategy and/or electrification programme (which is silly!). Surely not wasting resources is a good thing?

 

[Class15]

It looks like a good use of trains with plenty of life left in them, which have found themselves homeless due to the lack of a national rolling stock strategy and/or electrification programme (which is silly!). Surely not wasting resources is a good thing?

That’s what I was thinking.

 

[D365]

It looks like a good use of trains with plenty of life left in them, which have found themselves homeless due to the lack of a national rolling stock strategy and/or electrification programme (which is silly!). Surely not wasting resources is a good thing?

Indeed - and in this instance, the redeployment of motive power isn’t even relevant to passenger service (a pet peeve for some!).

 

[Wivenswold]

It looks like a good use of trains with plenty of life left in them, which have found themselves homeless due to the lack of a national rolling stock strategy and/or electrification programme (which is silly!). Surely not wasting resources is a good thing?

Agreed. It should be a national news story, the amount of brand new and also perfectly serviceable existing stock sitting in sidings collecting dust while rural customers have 2 car diesels for their commute. It's a total waste of resources that exposes the lack of joined-up thinking at the top (the DfT).

 

[Roger B]

Agreed. It should be a national news story, the amount of brand new and also perfectly serviceable existing stock sitting in sidings collecting dust while rural customers have 2 car diesels for their commute. It's a total waste of resources that exposes the lack of joined-up thinking at the top (the DfT).

There's much rage expressed on these pages about the DfT, and much of it rightly so. But it's also worth considering the dead hand of the Treasury - the DfT can't spend what the Treasury won't provide, and above all to remember where their orders have come from - their masters in government, whose policies they are implementing.

There is a 'death by a thousand cuts' philosophy at the heart of this government about anything that's a public (and not a privately owned) good - I'm thinking NHS, railways, etc - and this isn't necessarily (and should not be) held by civil servants. But whilst civil servants must act in a way that doesn't question their political impartiality, they are required to carry out the policies of the government of the day - no matter how ridiculous they may seem to everyone else.

 

[Wivenswold]

You've raised a very good point, I should have remembered that every Government department has its hands tied by the Treasury. Totally agree with everything you've said.

 

[warwickshire]

However on Tuesday 27th June 2023 at Wembley Yard around 2040, when passing the 321s had lights on and some was being moved around, however when passing again on Thursday 29th June 2023, some had been moved around. It does appear Wembleys have been rotated around the yard, don't know about Warringtons unless anyone knows any information if they have or not. .
However 3502s aren't on, for transfer anytime soon, could it well be possible the 321s are going to Scotland for the new electricified lines, as it would be quite easier to get into service up there even if shortened to a 3 car?
Or is the movements at Wembley similar to what happened at Crewe with the 365s ie got moved around but no buyer in the end a tick box exercise???.

 

[Southsider]

However 3502s aren't on, for transfer anytime soon, could it well be possible the 321s are going to Scotland for the new electricified lines, as it would be quite easier to get into service up there even if shortened to a 3 car?

I think this was the original plan but Scotrail have withdrawn so many services of late that they will probably have sufficient 380s and 385s to cover Barrhead and East Kilbride.

 

[JonathanH]

The leasing system where good refurbished units are withdrawn before the end of useful life is daft.

What would be different if the units were owned outright and there was no work for them?

I can't find any updates from Eversholt about the Renatus units, the plan for hydrogen conversion stopped in favour of new hydrogen powered Alstom Aventuras (but no new trains have been ordered), the plan to work with Vivarail for battery power has also stopped as Vivarail went into admin.
The last update was a year ago!

Maybe there isn't any update to give. Are they meant to announce if ideas have fallen through?

 

[43096]

What would be different if the units were owned outright and there was no work for them?

No difference. BR scrapped plenty of stock before its nominal life span, particularly during recessions.

 

[Invincible]

What would be different if the units were owned outright and there was no work for them?

Class 321 Renatus

A Member of Eversholt UK Rails Group

eversholtrail.co.uk

Just seems daft so much was spent on refurbishing the 30 units to extend their life, rather then scrapping, only for the new operator to order new trains anyway!.
The units have been stored for a while now, but the proposed battery conversion seems to have stalled, and they will most probably be scrapped.

 

[Energy]

Class 321 Renatus

A Member of Eversholt UK Rails Group

eversholtrail.co.uk

Just seems daft so much was spent on refurbishing the 30 units to extend their life, rather then scrapping, only for the new operator to order new trains anyway!.
The units have been stored for a while now, but the proposed battery conversion seems to have stalled, and they will most probably be scrapped.

Because of Covid the refurbishment had a good 6-7 years of use. The 30 units were a commercial decision.

It was also known that commuter services would have been sped up (GEML is dual track and they wanted to speed up intercity services) and reliability wanted to be improved. Eversholt took the (rather likely) risk that the next franchise wouldn't want more renatus 321s.