Jubilee line 96 stock, showing its age?

[Blindtraveler]

I've noticed in various posts on other threads that there have been known issues with the 96 stock but have never been able to find out what these are and in the last year or so in particular I have noticed that a lot of these trains seem to have issues with ride quality, motor problems and various other defects that are noticeable to the Passenger, particularly in terms of jerky stop start and other actions. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[Daniel]

Showing its age is an interesting one considering the Northern, Central, Waterloo & City, Piccadilly and Bakerloo Lines all have older rolling stock!

There is an interesting article here https://www.railengineer.co.uk/managing-cracks-and-fractures-safely-on-trains/ from Rail Engineer which discusses one of the big issues with 1996TS which was the cracks on the special trailer cars' underbody frame.

 

[stuu]

Showing its age is an interesting one considering the Northern, Central, Waterloo & City, Piccadilly and Bakerloo Lines all have older rolling stock!

There is an interesting article here https://www.railengineer.co.uk/managing-cracks-and-fractures-safely-on-trains/ from Rail Engineer which discusses one of the big issues with 1996TS which was the cracks on the special trailer cars' underbody frame.

The Northern Line trains are newer, despite being named 95 stock

 

[bramling]

Showing its age is an interesting one considering the Northern, Central, Waterloo & City, Piccadilly and Bakerloo Lines all have older rolling stock!

There is an interesting article here https://www.railengineer.co.uk/managing-cracks-and-fractures-safely-on-trains/ from Rail Engineer which discusses one of the big issues with 1996TS which was the cracks on the special trailer cars' underbody frame.

Slight point of order, the 95 stock dates from about 1998, so is actually slightly newer than the Jubilee fleet.

As regards the original question, part of the issue I suspect is to do with maintenance. The Jubilee fleet has never been maintained quite as well as the Northern fleet, and for some years the Jubilee has been tight on trains relative to the level of service desired to be provided. Essentially the JLE has been a little too successful in terms of demand (Crossrail may well now be easing this slightly), and the trains have had to be sweated. The 95 stock also had some refinements based on being a slightly newer design.

There are very faint signs that the 95 stock may be starting to run into issues as well…

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks all. Interesting article in particular. Yes the sets do feel as if they are simply suffering from a lack of maintenance or overwork, they certainly does seem less people on the jubilee at the southern end these days although events at the O2 and rail strikes seem to create pressure points for it, I know that I'm not alone in arriving at North Greenwich station by bus on days when there are no southeastern services for example and is there not some sort of huge big park and ride there as well? I confess to being completely unacquainted with the area other than the fact that there's a tube station there and a bus station with a lot of useful services

 

[LLivery]

I recently saw that the Jubilee has become the most unreliable line, while the Northern is now the most reliable. Take that as you wish...

 

[MCR247]

The Jubilee timetable also seems to be particularly intense with there often being no trains in Stratfords 3 platforms with an arriving train turned round in about a minute, or the only train currently sat at the station being the 2nd one booked to depart, with another booked to arrive and depart first

 

[stuu]

Percentages of scheduled service run in the last available period (April):

Bakerloo	90.40%​
Central	91.00%​
Circle Hammersmith & City	94.20%​
District	95.10%​
Jubilee	84.00%​
Metropolitan	90.40%​
Northern	98.30%​
Piccadilly	85.40%​
Victoria	95.10%​
Network	92.30%​

 

[rebmcr]

Percentages of scheduled service run in the last available period (April):

Bakerloo	90.40%​
Central	91.00%​
Circle Hammersmith & City	94.20%​
District	95.10%​
Jubilee	84.00%​
Metropolitan	90.40%​
Northern	98.30%​
Piccadilly	85.40%​
Victoria	95.10%​
Network	92.30%​

This would include staff absence though, so not necessarily an indication of the stock's condition?

 

[stuu]

This would include staff absence though, so not necessarily an indication of the stock's condition?

True, but wouldn't that be relatively uniform across the lines?

 

[Mojo]

True, but wouldn't that be relatively uniform across the lines?

Not at all. Some lines have greater shortages than others. You also have to consider that delays attributed to signal failures and public action will vary across all lines.

 

[Mikey C]

Slight point of order, the 95 stock dates from about 1998, so is actually slightly newer than the Jubilee fleet.

As regards the original question, part of the issue I suspect is to do with maintenance. The Jubilee fleet has never been maintained quite as well as the Northern fleet, and for some years the Jubilee has been tight on trains relative to the level of service desired to be provided. Essentially the JLE has been a little too successful in terms of demand (Crossrail may well now be easing this slightly), and the trains have had to be sweated. The 95 stock also had some refinements based on being a slightly newer design.

There are very faint signs that the 95 stock may be starting to run into issues as well…

Nitpicking, the 7th carriages (and 4 additional trains ordered at the same time in 2003) will be newer than the 1995 stock, even if the rest of the carriages will be older

The 1995 1996 have an older design of traction motor, similar to the Met Cam Networkers, which also are showing their age.

 

[bramling]

Nitpicking, the 7th carriages (and 4 additional trains ordered at the same time in 2003) will be newer than the 1995 stock, even if the rest of the carriages will be older

The 1995 have an older design of traction motor, similar to the Met Cam Networkers, which also are showing their age.

You mean the 96 stock? 95 stock has the Alstom ONIX system, which the 458s also have. That seems to be pretty bullet-proof.

 

[fgwrich]

You mean the 96 stock? 95 stock has the Alstom ONIX system, which the 458s also have. That seems to be pretty bullet-proof.

Indeed, noticeable by the noises each fleet makes! I have to admit, I like the quieter noise of the Onix system compared to the GEC whining.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I like them both and indeed having moved from Scott Rail three three four land earlier in the year the sound effects of the Northern Line provide me with some nice memories but I have a real soft spot for the traction equipment on the met cam networkers and 96 stock although the motors do seem to make a selection of other noises such as bangs and dropouts that they probably shouldn't be making

 

[Mikey C]

You mean the 96 stock? 95 stock has the Alstom ONIX system, which the 458s also have. That seems to be pretty bullet-proof.

Sorry, typo. Have they ever considered retractioning the 1996 stock with newer equipment, seeing that they'll be in service for another 20 years?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I guess the answer to that is they're going to wait and see how the similar project on the Central line works in practice

 

[D365]

I guess the answer to that is they're going to wait and see how the similar project on the Central line works in practice

"Similar" - not quite. 92TS modification is DC traction motors to three-phase AC. 96TS already has three-phase AC traction motors.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Ok my bad I should have worded that more accurately, I guess they are going to wait and see how the retractioning of the 92 stock works before they commit a not insignificant some of cash to doing another fleet albeit that it might for reasons described above be a little more straightforward?