Airbus A320 - Uninhabited Terrain Kit?

[telstarbox]

This is for one-off queries which can be resolved fairly quickly.

Yesterday I was on an Airbus A320 which had a locker for Uninhabited Terrain Kit - any idea what that includes?

Have airliners ever landed successfully on random ground as opposed to a water landing?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The kits contain basic survival equipment and location beacons plus a few other useful bits and pieces for the circumstances.

 

[Cross City]

This is for one-off queries which can be resolved fairly quickly.

Yesterday I was on an Airbus A320 which had a locker for Uninhabited Terrain Kit - any idea what that includes?

Have airliners ever landed successfully on random ground as opposed to a water landing?

No idea what the kit contains but Air India flies the only double bogey A320s precicely so they can land at poor airstrips.

 

[Irascible]

This is for one-off queries which can be resolved fairly quickly.

Yesterday I was on an Airbus A320 which had a locker for Uninhabited Terrain Kit - any idea what that includes?

Have airliners ever landed successfully on random ground as opposed to a water landing?

I don't actually know what that kit is ( I can ask around ) - I would hazard a guess at a survival kit though.

Probably the most famous off-strip landing where they just flew it out again - TACA 110 ( the pilot was quite the character too ). Main problem isn't so much the terrain ( as long as it's firm enough to support the gear ) as the engines injesting the terrain. There are gravel kits for a few jet airliners. There was a more recent one in Russia that had repeated bird strikes on takeoff & ended up in a corn field ( lots from inside on YT ) but I think they kept the gear up.

 

[westv]

Have airliners ever landed successfully on random ground as opposed to a water landing?

Haven't there only ever been two "successful" (i.e. not everybody was killed) water landings by passenger airlines??

 

[Gloster]

Haven't there only ever been two "successful" (i.e. not everybody was killed) water landings by passenger airlines??

I am no aviation expert at all, but offhand I can think of three: New York, one in the Caribean and one in the Pacific. Plus a flying boat that landed near an Atlantic weather ship.

 

[westv]

I am no aviation expert at all, but offhand I can think of three: New York, one in the Caribean and one in the Pacific. Plus a flying boat that landed near an Atlantic weather ship.

ok many thanks although I don't think a flying boat really counts.

 

[Gloster]

There is an index page on Wikipedia called Airliner Accidents and Incidents involving ditching , although there weren’t survivors in all the listed incidents. The flying boat one I was thinking of was the Bermuda Sky Queen which ran short of fuel in 1947: she was sunk by the US Coast Guard cutter afterwards.

 

[Irascible]

Can't find anyone who flies with that specific kit onboard, but the similar Arctic kit is apparently meant to be enough kit that a couple of crew can go off into the frozen wilderness to try & get help, so I'd imagine it's the same sort of thing.

 

[william.martin]

This is for one-off queries which can be resolved fairly quickly.

Yesterday I was on an Airbus A320 which had a locker for Uninhabited Terrain Kit - any idea what that includes?

Have airliners ever landed successfully on random ground as opposed to a water landing?

What airline was it?

 

[edwin_m]

I am no aviation expert at all, but offhand I can think of three: New York, one in the Caribean and one in the Pacific. Plus a flying boat that landed near an Atlantic weather ship.

Plus the one that was hijacked and ditched off a beach in the Comoros islands. And quite a number of runway overruns into water but they probably don't count.

Safety videos I've see recently show the slides turning themselves into rafts and floating off. Any idea if this is automatic or has to be initiated by a staff member? I can see hazards if it either happens when not required, or doesn't happen when it is.

I probably have a flight in a Saudia A320 sometime in the next few weeks - I'll see if I can see this kit, as most of Saudi Arabia is pretty much uninhabited. Any clues on where it is stowed?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Any clues on where it is stowed?

It'll be in the "bulge" in the middle of the ceiling half way down the aisle that likely also has the emergency exit signs on it.

 

[Lost property]

Plus the one that was hijacked and ditched off a beach in the Comoros islands. And quite a number of runway overruns into water but they probably don't count.

Safety videos I've see recently show the slides turning themselves into rafts and floating off. Any idea if this is automatic or has to be initiated by a staff member? I can see hazards if it either happens when not required, or doesn't happen when it is.

I probably have a flight in a Saudia A320 sometime in the next few weeks - I'll see if I can see this kit, as most of Saudi Arabia is pretty much uninhabited. Any clues on where it is stowed?

In theory, the deployment of an escape slide is fully automatic...you will have heard the announcements " doors to automatic / manual " as the slide is connected by a short cable to a girt bar, in essence a fixed bar on the cabin floor ( have a look next time you enter at two metal lugs either side of the door) and when the door is opened, and is armed, the slide deploys and inflates whilst still being attached to the airframe.

This is not advisable at the gate when CC forget to disarm...on a 767...and the engineer plus ramp dispatcher were very fortunate to escape injury.

I say in theory because, over the years I deployed numerous slides when " time ex " and, they didn't all deploy...until manually operated..

I can't speak for an A320 but. I would suggest possibly stowed in an o'head locker. Just ask the CC.

 

[randyrippley]

I am no aviation expert at all, but offhand I can think of three: New York, one in the Caribean and one in the Pacific. Plus a flying boat that landed near an Atlantic weather ship.

there was also the Nimrod in the North Sea
not passenger, but equally remarkable

 

[edwin_m]

It'll be in the "bulge" in the middle of the ceiling half way down the aisle that likely also has the emergency exit signs on it.

In theory, the deployment of an escape slide is fully automatic...you will have heard the announcements " doors to automatic / manual " as the slide is connected by a short cable to a girt bar, in essence a fixed bar on the cabin floor ( have a look next time you enter at two metal lugs either side of the door) and when the door is opened, and is armed, the slide deploys and inflates whilst still being attached to the airframe.

This is not advisable at the gate when CC forget to disarm...on a 767...and the engineer plus ramp dispatcher were very fortunate to escape injury.

I say in theory because, over the years I deployed numerous slides when " time ex " and, they didn't all deploy...until manually operated..

I can't speak for an A320 but. I would suggest possibly stowed in an o'head locker. Just ask the CC.

I agree the slide itself is (in theory) automatic when a door is opened while armed. I was wondering about the feature where it separates from the aircraft to become a liferaft. Separate too early and people won't be able to get onto it, too late and it could be dragged down if the fuselage sinks.

Not sure I really want to be enquiring of airline staff in that part of the world about their emergency equipment...

 

[Ediswan]

I was wondering about the feature where it separates from the aircraft to become a liferaft. Separate too early and people won't be able to get onto it, too late and it could be dragged down if the fuselage sinks.

I have a vague recollection that this is manual, under the control of the occupants of the liferaft.

 

[Ted633]

I agree the slide itself is (in theory) automatic when a door is opened while armed. I was wondering about the feature where it separates from the aircraft to become a liferaft. Separate too early and people won't be able to get onto it, too late and it could be dragged down if the fuselage sinks.

Not sure I really want to be enquiring of airline staff in that part of the world about their emergency equipment...

Yes, separation from the aircraft is manually done. It's just two latches on the floor of the doorway that'll release the slide.

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks both. I'll try to remember that "in the unlikely event of a landing on water".

 

[cactustwirly]

I was thinking about this the other day when I was on a plane, what is actually the chances of survival if your plane goes down over the Atlantic?
It is very cold so surely you'd succumb to hypothermia before help could arrive.

All academic of course, as planes are very safe, the actual chances of that happening is slim

 

[Bald Rick]

I was thinking about this the other day when I was on a plane, what is actually the chances of survival if your plane goes down over the Atlantic?
It is very cold so surely you'd succumb to hypothermia before help could arrive.

All academic of course, as planes are very safe, the actual chances of that happening is slim

It depends which part of the Atlantic, what time of year, and the weather conditions.

North Atlantic in February / South Atlantic in August and anywhere more than around 200 miles from land and chances are very slim.

Just off the Jersey Shore or Bay of Biscay in June, pretty high (Assuming the plane ditches well).

 

[Strathclyder]

It depends which part of the Atlantic, what time of year, and the weather conditions.

North Atlantic in February / South Atlantic in August and anywhere more than around 200 miles from land and chances are very slim.

Just off the Jersey Shore or Bay of Biscay in June, pretty high (Assuming the plane ditches well).

Indeed. It also depends on the height from which the aircraft hits the water regardless of the prevailing weather conditions. Trans World 800, Swissair 111, EgyptAir 990 & Air France 447 (all 4 of which came down in the Atlantic for completely different reasons), each having been at cruising altitude when disaster struck, all had no survivors. The fact that the first two came down fairly close to land (less than 10km from land in Flight 111's case) mattered little.

 

[ainsworth74]

It also depends on the height from which the aircraft hits the water regardless of the prevailing weather conditions. Trans World 800, Swissair 111, EgyptAir 990 & Air France 447 (all 4 of which came down in the Atlantic for completely different reasons), each having been at cruising altitude when disaster struck, all had no survivors.

I'm not sure that that's necessarily true. TWA 800 exploded mid-air, Swissair 111 had a fire and loss of control, EgyptAir 990 was either flown into the ocean deliberately or suffered a severe mechanical failure rendering uncontrollable and Air France 447 was accidently flown into the ocean.

Therefore in all four cases the crew were unable to appropriately bleed off speed during their descent from cruising altitude meaning impacts with the ocean at speeds far higher than were ever likely to be survivable.

If you had a failure at cruising altitude during which the aircraft was controllable but would require ditching the the altitude the failure happens at isn't really relevant. Well other than increasing the range they can fly and the time to work the problem and prepare for ditching.

 

[Strathclyder]

I'm not sure that that's necessarily true. TWA 800 exploded mid-air, Swissair 111 had a fire and loss of control, EgyptAir 990 was either flown into the ocean deliberately or suffered a severe mechanical failure rendering uncontrollable and Air France 447 was accidently flown into the ocean.

Therefore in all four cases the crew were unable to appropriately bleed off speed during their descent from cruising altitude meaning impacts with the ocean at speeds far higher than were ever likely to be survivable.

If you had a failure at cruising altitude during which the aircraft was controllable but would require ditching the the altitude the failure happens at isn't really relevant. Well other than increasing the range they can fly and the time to work the problem and prepare for ditching.

All very true, those 4 just stood out to me as having occurred in the Atlantic is all. That said, even if the crew is able to maintain control, solve the problem if possible and/or prepare for a survivable ditching if they have no other options left, there are obviously no guarantees of survival if they do manage to bring their aircraft down at a safe angle and speed for a emergency water ditching; cases like US Airways 1549 are very much the exception to this.

And yeah, there is still debate over the exact cause of EgyptAir 990's demise, whether it was intentional on the part of the first officer (the conculsion the NTSB reached) or a severe mechinical failure of the 767's elevator control systems (the ECAA's conculsion, Egypt's counterpart to our AAIB at the time).