TPE - "Essential travel only" Friday 23rd June.

[Moonshot]

12 hours of 'service', SEVEN trains in each direction. I mean, if the Morley block was a short notice emergency one, I could understand it, but as it is it's a disgrace.

Which train was you hoping to catch?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jun 2023 ==

Reverse the changes that have led to the current situation, the causes have been aired on various threads here, it might not be a quick fix, but at least things would be moving in the right direction. As for who is in control, well that needs to be made clear, DfT? Minister? TPE MD?, and then whoever takes responsibility for this mess needs to be given the resources and backing to sort it.

Bear in mind that for a number of years up until 2018 TPE ran a reasonable service, the only major issue was overcrowding which could have been easily fixed with more rolling stock compatible with the existing fleet.

Reverse of changes has already begun

 

[trainophile]

They are giving misleading information for bookings made on their site but for other operators. Had an email this morning that my booked 08:11 next Monday 26th Hereford to Newport is cancelled. Got on Twitter to TfW to clarify my options (about to start a new thread about this) to be told it’s not cancelled.

Tried to reply to their email, told to use their contact us form, which is totally unusable for my query.

 

[185]

It was raised in previous threads the legacy of previous bad senior/exec management transferring into the new operator, OLR.

Perhaps this is reason enough for Chris Jackson and OLR/DfT to have a clearout, not just of that senior management & directors, but going beyond that now right down towards middle and local management too.

This kind of silliness justifies those calling for integration of TPE into Northern.

Heeley Mills is one of the 'basic' diversions all should sign. I'd understand not signing the more complex diversions (Methley, Calder Valley etc) but not Heeley Mills, an absolute basic one.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Heeley Mills is one of the 'basic' diversions all should sign. I'd understand not signing the more complex diversions (Methley, Calder Valley etc) but not Heeley Mills, an absolute basic one.

Because nobody is prepared to reduce the timetable to allow for the traincrew to be released to sign the diversionary routes…

 

[Horizon22]

Just who on earth do these people think they are?!!

Absolutely gobsmacking. Government owned or not, this company should not be entrusted to run rail services.

What’s the alternative? It was privatised, then “privatised” (with the new contract) now under DOHL. Who else would be running it? This is of course not considering removing all senior management & bringing in other people but this would have its own issues; they zouke have to be recruited, get up to speed, deal with the same fundamental problems all of which would take 3+ months.

There are fundamental, core problems which won’t be resolved in a matter of weeks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jun 2023 ==

The service would be the same with or without this warning.

At least this way passengers will know it will be bad today and some will choose not to travel today where they don’t have to specifically today.

Exactly. Perhaps worded slightly differently but the sentiment is the same.

 

[td97]

Northern are advising

Busy services expected between Manchester-Bradford-Leeds on Friday 21 June
Northern trains between Manchester, Bradford and Leeds are expected to be busier than normal this afternoon (Friday 23). Please allow extra time to travel.

This is due to cancellations by other operators

 

[185]

Because nobody is prepared to reduce the timetable to allow for the traincrew to be released to sign the diversionary routes…

A mention by Huw Merriman MP talking on the TSC the other day touched on the exodus of TPE drivers to other operators. Perhaps making TPE a fit and proper employer that people want to stay working for is primary, then there would be enough staff to put some on a route learning excursion each day. Tackle the toxic (or, perception of toxic) ex FirstGroup management - then maybe people will stay.

A temporary emergency timetable should come in, and priority should be given to remove, in my opinion, the huge amount of long distance empty stock trains. The only ECS moves left should be end of day stuff from Piccadilly to either Longsight / Ardwick or York to Siemens.

 

[Spartacus]

Which train was you hoping to catch?

Thankfully today, none of them, since the timetable's already too sparse to get me to work early enough, but it's a sorry state of affairs for others.

 

[Bantamzen]

As I understand it the immediate cause is the Morley block for Transpennine Route Update. We have heard that TPE told DfT that they could not get training done for sufficient staff to support the TRU. The DfT decided to go ahead anyway. The only Depot covering the diversion appears to be Sheffield. Getting more depots trained is not possible because of the Aslef RDW ban which ends tomorrow and the Morley block gets lifted on Monday. Apart from solving the drivers and conductors disputes a year ago or generally turning the clock back the only rational action is to put up with it until Monday.

The TRU works will be planned far in advance, with multiple contractors involved. And its a big project over many years so in all fairness if TPE can't cover these diversions this is not a reason to start cancelling works, pushing back engineering timetables and ultimately costing the project a lot more with delays.

 

[wellhouse]

So I've been brave enough to take the 1201 service from Huddersfield to Leeds today (23rd June), connecting with a journey already booked from Leeds to Horsham.

With TPE the way it's been, I always wait until 2200 the night before to establish exactly what is planned to run. I would have taken the 1220, but that was cancelled. With the extended journey time via the Healey Mills diversion, and the likely overcrowding, I decided to go First Class. TPE, Northern, and LNER all showed no First Class tickets available Trainsplit didn't offer the 1201 service at all, so I bought a standard ticket. I have never before encountered advance declassification of First Class.

As it happens, First Class was already rammed, and I had to stand. Full credit to the guard, who made her way through to make sure space was available for a booked wheelchair passenger boarding at Huddersfield.With the total absence of luggage racks in Class 802 First Class, both wheelchair spaces had been fully occupied by luggage (and the overhead racks were at least 50% full)

 

[800001]

12 hours of 'service', SEVEN trains in each direction. I mean, if the Morley block was a short notice emergency one, I could understand it, but as it is it's a disgrace.

Just seen an email stating they are only operating 20% of the service today between Manchester Victoria and York, CSL2 has been declared.

 

[Bantamzen]

Just seen an email stating they are only operating 20% of the service today between Manchester Victoria and York, CSL2 has been declared.

Could you please explain what CSL2 is?

 

[800001]

Could you please explain what CSL2 is?

It means they are in a state of disruption, they declare CSL2, that then means other TOCS are meant to accept TPE customers on their services.

I have attached a picture below of the meaning. This is taken from Northern trains website, which I have attached the link nelow

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/2022-01/Local_Delivery_Plan_2020_1_0.pdf

 

[Bantamzen]

It means they are in a state of disruption, they declare CSL2, that then means other TOCS are meant to accept TPE customers on their services.

I have attached a picture below of the meaning. This is taken from Northern trains website, which I have attached the link nelow

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/2022-01/Local_Delivery_Plan_2020_1_0.pdf

Cheers, that's much appreciated.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Wonder when TPE last had a "green" day?!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Got to hope the listening gets put into action before the whole thing comes crumbling down.

Yeah me too, with word spreading a certain junior manager collecting grieviances as if they are labels of honour is getting promoted into a senior role and the ex bank manager senior also getting a leg up is rather concerning conductors. They are far from competent....

What action should be taken by those in control?

For one, put the traincrew controllers back in control. Those who knew where the train crew were or took in to account when services are delayed/cancelled traincrews wil then be out of position rather than just relying on the information in Genius

Looking at the list of cancellations, it looks like an average day as far as I can see.

How? We are running half the service! Theres crews sitting spare because turns have been cancelled

Because nobody is prepared to reduce the timetable to allow for the traincrew to be released to sign the diversionary routes…

There are spare crews who "could" cover the work releasing others to learn routes. But as Liverpool dont sign beyond York and Newcastle crews beyond Leeds theres no cross cover available. Neither can any depot undertake any refreshers because the teaining days were removed by management under the premise of being "wasted days"

 

[stevieinselby]

Which is what everyone said, it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference.

You can't make an omelette, etc.
The situation at TPX was so bad that there was no way to improve it immediately. Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better ... but there's a better chance of them doing that under OLR.

 

[syorksdeano]

Any truth in the jungle drums that are banging that TPE might be implementing an emergency timetable to try and give customers an idea what will run?

 

[Trinzilla]

So now to add to the farce all mk5s are out of action until a full inspection for cracks have taken place. 4 sets are stranded at Scarborough.

 

[3RDGEN]

Any truth in the jungle drums that are banging that TPE might be implementing an emergency timetable to try and give customers an idea what will run?

Can only hope so. Hourly Liverpool - Newcastle, Manchester Airport - Middlesborough, Manchester - Scarb/Hull with Leeds/York shuttles for whichever doesn't get the Manc train. Then the usual hourly stoppers Leeds/Hudd/Manc. Is that manageable?

This weeks engineering timetable has given Scarborough / Hull their most reliable service for months. Cleethorpes has also had a much improved run recently.

 

[Spartacus]

So now to add to the farce all mk5s are out of action until a full inspection for cracks have taken place. 4 sets are stranded at Scarborough.

In fairness given how few operate on even decent days I doubt it'll be felt much, apart from it being a 3 car vice Mk5 set to and from Scarborough.

 

[Master29]

It was raised in previous threads the legacy of previous bad senior/exec management transferring into the new operator, OLR.

Perhaps this is reason enough for Chris Jackson and OLR/DfT to have a clearout, not just of that senior management & directors, but going beyond that now right down towards middle and local management too.

This kind of silliness justifies those calling for integration of TPE into Northern.

Heeley Mills is one of the 'basic' diversions all should sign. I'd understand not signing the more complex diversions (Methley, Calder Valley etc) but not Heeley Mills, an absolute basic one.

Makes you wonder why no one is ever accountable. Seems a recurring theme in this country.

 

[Fokx]

In fairness given how few operate on even decent days I doubt it'll be felt much, apart from it being a 3 car vice Mk5 set to and from Scarborough.

Which will also lead to unplanned 3 car services on Hull, Saltburns and South route

 

[Spartacus]

Which will also lead to unplanned 3 car services on Hull, Saltburns and South route

Maybe, but there's a lot of services cancelled due to the Morley work, so I woudn't be surprised if there's a few more around than there would be normally, maintenance schedules allowing.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Makes you wonder why no one is ever accountable. Seems a recurring theme in this country.

Nobody is surprised.

The people who thought that transfering operations to the state would solve all the problems of the railways are blinkered by their obsession with ideology. The DFT are and always have been a large part of the problem. Simply giving them more control was never going to achieve what some people would have you believe.

Over the past number of years the TOCs have been used as a shield by the DFT. The DFT dictating things behind the scene and making decisions on many things that result in things that the public then blame the TOCs for, despite the fact the DFT are pulling the strings behind the scenes and the DFT themselves are often operating on a political whim to their Government paymasters rather than what's best for me and you.

This has allowed the DFT to nationalise the praise and privatise the blame for too long, but seems even now some people still haven't cottoned on.

 

[ruaival]

As a regular (almost daily) user of Lockerbie, if anything I’d say it’s got worse!

They only useable commuter train to Glasgow from Lockerbie (the 07:10) seems to be one of their favourites to cancel. This is also the first northbound service of the day, so most folk have given up with commuting from there, as there’s simply no reliable option to get you into Glasgow before 9 now.

A small saving grace is that Avanti are now very reliable up here and the 08:15 is generally very punctual (most of the time), so provided I don’t have to be there before 9am, I generally use Avanti both ways now.

These early morning cancellations were common pre-pandemic too. I has several months in Spring '19 weekly commuting Manchester to Edinburgh and chose to travel to stay over in Carlisle on the Sunday night because first train from Manchester Airport to Edinburgh was routinely started at Preston ! - so I am left thinking there were systemic issues with TPE ways of working back then.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

There clearly needs to be an improvement plan (like Avanti) as issues such has lack of train crew aren't solved overnight, you can make overtime/RDW so attractive as a quick fix for a particular day but it's not sustainable for either party long term.

TPE need to announce a timetable they can stick to with the train crew they have, then in 2 months it will increase as planned recruitment/training gets completed and maybe 2 months after that get back to 100% so expectations are set and performance can be monitored.

On the wider point though TOCs should fined so heavily for cancellations due to lack of train crew/rolling stock that it actually makes it cheaper to have cover and extra trains on standby - obviously costly but it would move the needle to running services

 

[Spartacus]

There clearly needs to be an improvement plan (like Avanti) as issues such has lack of train crew aren't solved overnight, you can make overtime/RDW so attractive as a quick fix for a particular day but it's not sustainable for either party long term.

TPE need to announce a timetable they can stick to with the train crew they have, then in 2 months it will increase as planned recruitment/training gets completed and maybe 2 months after that get back to 100% so expectations are set and performance can be monitored.

On the wider point though TOCs should fined so heavily for cancellations due to lack of train crew/rolling stock that it actually makes it cheaper to have cover and extra trains on standby - obviously costly but it would move the needle to running services

Tightening up the PG cancellation get out clause so that it couldn't be used outside of normal rostering timescales would be a big boost, rather than the current theoretical 22:00 on the previous day, which is far too late for many passengers, and in my experience gets abused anyway. In return I know some TDAs who refuse to do TPE PGs on principle, even if they might eventually get recoded that way.

 

[Master29]

Nobody is surprised.

The people who thought that transfering operations to the state would solve all the problems of the railways are blinkered by their obsession with ideology. The DFT are and always have been a large part of the problem. Simply giving them more control was never going to achieve what some people would have you believe.

Over the past number of years the TOCs have been used as a shield by the DFT. The DFT dictating things behind the scene and making decisions on many things that result in things that the public then blame the TOCs for, despite the fact the DFT are pulling the strings behind the scenes and the DFT themselves are often operating on a political whim to their Government paymasters rather than what's best for me and you.

This has allowed the DFT to nationalise the praise and privatise the blame for too long, but seems even now some people still haven't cottoned on.

I wouldn't have agreed a few years ago but now I wouldn't be surprised. Much as they would have used BR in a similar fashion pre 1995.

 

[Silenos]

Nobody is surprised.

The people who thought that transfering operations to the state would solve all the problems of the railways are blinkered by their obsession with ideology. The DFT are and always have been a large part of the problem. Simply giving them more control was never going to achieve what some people would have you believe.

Over the past number of years the TOCs have been used as a shield by the DFT. The DFT dictating things behind the scene and making decisions on many things that result in things that the public then blame the TOCs for, despite the fact the DFT are pulling the strings behind the scenes and the DFT themselves are often operating on a political whim to their Government paymasters rather than what's best for me and you.

This has allowed the DFT to nationalise the praise and privatise the blame for too long, but seems even now some people still haven't cottoned on.

But this sounds in itself like an ideological position. If the issue were simply the incompetence or active malice of state actors, all TOCs would be affected equally, but few of them are in the same dire state as Trans Pennine services.