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Trivia: Slowest and fastest services on UK rail network

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Farningham

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But isn't it essentially a suburban service?

40kmh (25mph) is pretty standard worldwide where there are frequent stops.
25 mph? Luxury!
Wallington to London Victoria 13.42 miles in 42 minutes = 19.17 mph. The down service is slightly faster at 20.13 mph.
Not a one-off working, this is the all-day half-hourly service.
Certainly could not be driven in that time though.
 
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mjc

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Not so for many journeys between major cities with nearby motorways including some cited by the OP. Though it obviously depends on the actual journey and very heavily on the time of day.

From plentiful experience at quieter times, central-ish Stoke-on-Trent to Bristol residential or the city centre can be sub 2:00 by road. It's only 125m, the 50mph A500 dual carriageway has a junction barely yards from the area around Stoke station, it's a few miles to the M6 and then it's continuous motorway all the way to the M32 which goes into Bristol city centre.

In the middle of the day the traffic (mainly the approaches to the M6/M5 intersection) will obviously hobble this. Even then, Stoke-Bristol can still be as quick as the plodding X-Country service which combined with it being catastrophically expensive is why we almost never use it.

Even London-Bristol is almost as quick by road as train at quieter times despite the 125mph mainline. At night, the train wins easily to Reading, is still ahead at Swindon but is marginal by Bath. I've done Lancaster Gate area - Bristol central/home by road in around 1:50 more times than I can care to remember. It's a 118 mile journey and you're doing 70mph for nearly 110 of that.

Point-to-point journeys will be even quicker for anyone living at either end within 5-10 mins drive of the motorway/equivalent. You can routinely average 65mph+ legally on many such. The long-term trip computer on my car hasn't been reset in 7000+ miles and is currently showing an average of 53.3mph which tends to underline this considering there are plenty of journeys through the single track lanes of Powys and the Yorkshire Dales mixed in with all the motorway stuff. Where the railway wins is at 4pm on a Friday, or the likes of Manchester to London.
Thanks, this really encapsulates much of my frustration.

One poster mentioned needing to factor in delay of PNB if driving; I’m assuming that means personal needs break which is a fair point, the train doesn’t have to stop for me to go for a pee, but driving I’d go from home rather than spend time getting to the station and just turn on engine and drive rather than needing to be at station in good time before departure.

There’s also cost factors, I’ve not explored split tickets but Stoke to Bristol return for next Friday are £76 off peak or £154 anytime. Our car isn’t very fuel efficient but I still reckon on about 20p/mile on average for fuel (acknowledging there are other costs but negligible). C. 150 miles each way is then roughly £60 fuel for return trip, so a saving even for a single traveller who’s willing to restrict to off-peak let alone a couple or family.

Having said that I’m at risk of a wrist-slap from mods for going off topic on my own thread so I’ll stop now (and maybe search for or start a ‘what’s the point of the railway’ thread to explore these points further…)
 

mikeb42

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The Heart of Wales line seems like a contender at the slow end:

Llandovery to Llandrindod - 28 miles by road. Takes over an hour by train - about 35 minutes to drive a couple of weeks ago. There may be other worse pairs on this route.
 

Magdalia

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In the 1970s Railway Magazine used to do "Britain's Fastest Trains" and "Britain's Slowest Trains" articles every year.

With modern technology shouldn't that be a much easier task now than then?

But in the 1970s trains were getting faster, with WCML electrification and introduction of HSTs.

Annual articles now would probably make for quite depressing reading.
 

mjc

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In the 1970s Railway Magazine used to do "Britain's Fastest Trains" and "Britain's Slowest Trains" articles every year.

Annual articles now would probably make for quite depressing reading.
Absolutely, a couple of the regular trains I catch have accrued a few extra minutes in the timetable over the last couple of years (and no, it’s not rolling back an improvement from the less-congested Covid era). The train I caught this morning does Stoke to Birmingham in 3 minutes more than I did before timetable change last month (and wasn’t routinely late). The next train after that shifted slightly last December, departing 4 minutes earlier but only arriving 2 earlier; not much change but frustrating none the less, especially when it was already a tight connection to get to the station on the bus!
 

Aviator88

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For comparison, the vast majority of (legal) average speeds within the UK, from city centre to city centre, in a car, range between 40 mph and 55 mph. You'll be hard pressed to find many faster than this. The only outliers will be town/city departure/destination combos that are both very close to a motorway junction, where the average may creep up over 60 mph, i.e. Penrith to Glasgow.
 

Starmill

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Even London-Bristol is almost as quick by road as train at quieter times despite the 125mph mainline. At night, the train wins easily to Reading, is still ahead at Swindon but is marginal by Bath. I've done Lancaster Gate area - Bristol central/home by road in around 1:50 more times than I can care to remember. It's a 118 mile journey and you're doing 70mph for nearly 110 of that.
Lancaster Gate London Underground to Bristol Bus Station via the Hogarth Roundabout, M4 and M32 is approximately 117 miles so 1h 50m would, although possible, be rather tight if you set your cruise control at 70? Of course there's always those who push their luck and set it to 76 the whole way :lol:. Perhaps the journey to your actual destination shaves off a couple of miles from the end and of course the location of Bristol Temple Meads results in a lot of very poor connections. Then there's the fact that Bristol is bereft of any metro or light rail services whatsoever to bridge the gap between the station and the inner suburbs and city centre attractions.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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From Stoke (discounting any occasional blips in the timetable), the fastest and slowest are:
London Euston: 157 miles in 91 minutes, 103mph
Crewe: 14 miles in 23 minutes, 36mph
Stoke-Euston direct is 146.5 railway miles, so average speed is slower at 96.6 mph.
Stoke-Crewe is 15 rail miles, so a bit better at 39.1 mph.

Mileages used to be on the first page of each timetable in the NR book (GBTT) but the present computer-generated version doesn't have them.
You can find them in rail atlases, such as TrackMaps, and the lines themselves have mileposts (though it gets complicated where they meet).

It's all relative.
I remember a journey in Romania, Cluj to Sighisoara, exactly 200 km, 42 stops in 5h20m, or 37.5km/h (23.3 mph).
And it was an hour late, so the average speed was actually 31.6 km/h or 19.6 mph.
Electric loco and 2 coaches.

Central Wales line is pretty slow.
Llanelli-Craven Arms is 90.25 miles in 3h15m or 28 mph average (faster on the main lines either end to Swansea/Shrewsbury.
 

TheLastMinute

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2Y07 takes 51 minutes to go 11 miles and 48 chains from St Andrews Road to Parson Street, both in Bristol. If my maths is right, that an average of 13.65mph.
 

mikeb42

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Lancaster Gate London Underground to Bristol Bus Station via the Hogarth Roundabout, M4 and M32 is approximately 117 miles so 1h 50m would, although possible, be rather tight if you set your cruise control at 70? Of course there's always those who push their luck and set it to 76 the whole way :lol:. Perhaps the journey to your actual destination shaves off a couple of miles from the end and of course the location of Bristol Temple Meads results in a lot of very poor connections. Then there's the fact that Bristol is bereft of any metro or light rail services whatsoever to bridge the gap between the station and the inner suburbs and city centre attractions.
118 was to a previous office which was literally 1 minute's brisk walk from the gateline at Temple Meads. That'd be with the cruise control set to 74mph from Hounslow to the M32 as that gets you an actual 70mph when measured accurately, give or take tyre wear.

I see someone has mentioned the Severn Beach line. That also feels agonisingly slow when I use it occasionally from the far end to avoid driving into Brizzle. At quieter times you can drive from Severn Beach to Temple Meads in not much over half the time the train takes.
 

SeanG

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Stourbridge Shuttle is 0.62 miles and is timed at 3 minutes - and so I think this gives an average of 12.4mph
 

The Planner

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Stourbridge Shuttle is 0.62 miles and is timed at 3 minutes - and so I think this gives an average of 12.4mph
62 chains, so ¾ mile. considering only ½ mile is 20mph the rest 10mph, that probably isn't that bad.
 

Grecian 1998

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Bristol - Exeter must be one of the fastest journeys that doesn't (usually) involve London bound services - typically 58 minutes for 76 miles (when the Weston stoppers don't get in the way at Worle). There used to be a non-stop Sunday service which did it in 48 minutes IIRC and could be as little as 44 minutes with a clear run. Bristol - Taunton is faster still at 31 minutes for 45 miles.

There are some fast London bound services which go that way rather than the Berks and Hants, but not many - the majority of fast services are XC.

I think that’s a fair point, but arguing that a car (limited legally to 70mph at best and subject to traffic and congestion en route) is not better than a direct rail service (supposedly capable of 125mph and timetabled to have a clear run through) isn’t the best defence. I don’t expect trains to teleport and accept that station stops and other issues mean they have to stop, which brings deceleration and acceleration time) but even still why is the train so slow? Is it the technology, the rails, the station stops?

I don't think there are any 125mph sections between Stoke and Bristol unless Stafford - Wolverhampton permits non-tilting trains to run that way - otherwise it's generally 100mph south of Birmingham and 110mph northwards. However, Stoke - Bristol, as with most journeys on the railways, is a compromise. If there were enough people to merit a non-stop service, then one might run. As it is, it is clearly and not unreasonably felt that it is worth stopping trains at the not insubstantial hubs of Wolverhampton and Birmingham, along with Stafford for WCML connections and Cheltenham as a Cotswolds hub.

Added to that is the need for a reliable timetable. A car can go as fast as is legally permitted without worrying about other traffic; a train has to fit into a congested timetable, particularly around Birmingham New Street. If you pathed a Voyager to run as fast as possible with no contingencies, it might beat the car comfortably 10% of the time at best, but it would be hopelessly unreliable the other 90%. Once a XC train misses its path even with padding allowances, it frequently gets later and later as it gets stuck behind the stopping services it was supposed to be in front of.

There's also the fact that Stoke - Bristol trains come from Manchester and are heading to Bristol / Exeter or Bournemouth, meaning they have to be carefully timed to cross multiple London services which will usually get priority along with stopping services.

2h 20m may seem like a lengthy journey, but as long as nothing goes badly wrong, it should be a reliable journey time. A sub 2 hour time might sound attractive, but not if it's as accurate as a North Korean news channel. Driving can be much more variable although I accept that at quieter times it can be much faster. However, whilst some people find driving enjoyable (when the roads are quieter at least), the driver can do significantly less than a train passenger can (although I accept that when on a wedged service, there may not be much option but to stand and perspire).

I suspect another factor is that people feel far more in control of their journey when driving than on a train as they are choosing when to travel, which route to take etc. However, that rather ignores the fact that other road users also have a lot of control over your journey and not in a positive way.



Back OT, I did Colchester - Walton on the Naze a few weeks ago and was rather surprised to find that I'd only travelled 19 miles after 51 minutes, considering most of the route was on a double track route with relatively fast London services as far as Thorpe-le-Soken.
 

Bartsimho

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Bristol - Exeter must be one of the fastest journeys that doesn't (usually) involve London bound services - typically 58 minutes for 76 miles (when the Weston stoppers don't get in the way at Worle). There used to be a non-stop Sunday service which did it in 48 minutes IIRC and could be as little as 44 minutes with a clear run. Bristol - Taunton is faster still at 31 minutes for 45 miles.

There are some fast London bound services which go that way rather than the Berks and Hants, but not many - the majority of fast services are XC.



I don't think there are any 125mph sections between Stoke and Bristol unless Stafford - Wolverhampton permits non-tilting trains to run that way - otherwise it's generally 100mph south of Birmingham and 110mph northwards. However, Stoke - Bristol, as with most journeys on the railways, is a compromise. If there were enough people to merit a non-stop service, then one might run. As it is, it is clearly and not unreasonably felt that it is worth stopping trains at the not insubstantial hubs of Wolverhampton and Birmingham, along with Stafford for WCML connections and Cheltenham as a Cotswolds hub.

Added to that is the need for a reliable timetable. A car can go as fast as is legally permitted without worrying about other traffic; a train has to fit into a congested timetable, particularly around Birmingham New Street. If you pathed a Voyager to run as fast as possible with no contingencies, it might beat the car comfortably 10% of the time at best, but it would be hopelessly unreliable the other 90%. Once a XC train misses its path even with padding allowances, it frequently gets later and later as it gets stuck behind the stopping services it was supposed to be in front of.

There's also the fact that Stoke - Bristol trains come from Manchester and are heading to Bristol / Exeter or Bournemouth, meaning they have to be carefully timed to cross multiple London services which will usually get priority along with stopping services.

2h 20m may seem like a lengthy journey, but as long as nothing goes badly wrong, it should be a reliable journey time. A sub 2 hour time might sound attractive, but not if it's as accurate as a North Korean news channel. Driving can be much more variable although I accept that at quieter times it can be much faster. However, whilst some people find driving enjoyable (when the roads are quieter at least), the driver can do significantly less than a train passenger can (although I accept that when on a wedged service, there may not be much option but to stand and perspire).

I suspect another factor is that people feel far more in control of their journey when driving than on a train as they are choosing when to travel, which route to take etc. However, that rather ignores the fact that other road users also have a lot of control over your journey and not in a positive way.



Back OT, I did Colchester - Walton on the Naze a few weeks ago and was rather surprised to find that I'd only travelled 19 miles after 51 minutes, considering most of the route was on a double track route with relatively fast London services as far as Thorpe-le-Soken.
I know for a fact that the train (even XC) is faster for Sheffield-Exeter by about an hour it's still faster for Sheffield-Plymouth by 15 minutes but after taking 1 look at Cornwall it's painfully slower.

There is an opportunity for the railway here to convince some holiday makers out of cars if it could even just improve Exeter St Davids to Plymouth as it's only competing with A roads then which can be more congested and slower speeds.

If there could be better acceleration and some line speed improvements from Newton Abbot to Plymouth although looking at the curvature it seems impossible.

Invite some rental car places into the holiday stations and maybe sell special return tickets which are Rail Travel + Car Hire for an amount of time could improve ridership
 

miklcct

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For comparison, the vast majority of (legal) average speeds within the UK, from city centre to city centre, in a car, range between 40 mph and 55 mph. You'll be hard pressed to find many faster than this. The only outliers will be town/city departure/destination combos that are both very close to a motorway junction, where the average may creep up over 60 mph, i.e. Penrith to Glasgow.
How about urban traffic? I'd say that 15 mph on average is typical.

London Overground may be the slowest mainline rail of more than 10 miles but imagine driving along the route of North London Line.
 

The Planner

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And yet averages 60mph over the c 16 miles.
Eh? XC are timed 12.5 minutes between the two and that includes a minute engineering allowance. Where does the 60mph come from? Considering they stop at both stations and its not 125 all the way.
 

Bensonby

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New Cross to Deptford: half a mile and just over an hour to get there. Circa 0.5mph.

Maybe not in the spirit of this thread, as it goes a very indirect circular route, but it’s a direct train!
 

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Snow1964

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The 07:12 from Fulwell to London Waterloo must be in with shout for slowest

52 minutes, for journey of 12 miles 75 chains, a tranquil 14.93mph

A similar time train (105 years ago after electrification) took 35 minutes, so must also be in the list for most slowed train since electrification, at around 148% of its former timing.
 

Bald Rick

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The 07:12 from Fulwell to London Waterloo must be in with shout for slowest

52 minutes, for journey of 12 miles 75 chains, a tranquil 14.93mph

A similar time train (105 years ago after electrification) took 35 minutes, so must also be in the list for most slowed train since electrification, at around 148% of its former timing.

WTT it’s 50.5 mins, but point taken. Presumably it’s ancestor didn’t have the long dwells at Strawberry Hill or Twickers, and perhaps didn’t call at all the stations?
 

Mcr Warrior

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New Cross to Deptford: half a mile and just over an hour to get there. Circa 0.5mph.
It's actually just under 21 miles by rail from New Cross to Deptford via Slade Green. An hour or so's journey to do the loop makes the average speed of the train a somewhat glacial 20.6 m.p.h. given the number of station stops, almost one per mile.

Maybe not in the spirit of this thread, as it goes a very indirect circular route, but it’s a direct train!
As you say, not really in the spirit of the thread.
 

172007

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Stourbridge Jct to Stourbridge Town must be the slowest journey end to end in the country surely. Top speed is 15mph I believe (so many years since I drive a C153 down their I have forgotten), average speed must be 12mph I guess.
 

LAX54

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Short by just 21 chains is Clacton on Sea to Walton on the Naze - a one off working that reverses at Thorpe le Soken and is passed at Kirby Cross.

At 9 miles 59 chains, this works out to 19.475mph.

(2N02 0612 Clacton on Sea to Walton on the Naze)
sits 7 mins at TLS tho

A12 Colchester to London, anything from 90 mins to 3 hours, Train 45 mins.
 
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