Lifespan/age of rails on the network

[devon_belle]

For how long are rails typically used before needing (and getting) replacements? Obviously this will depend on the route/wear but is there a typical lifespan? The last remaining jointed track must have been there for a while (e.g. south of Dorking) - is there a reason it has not needed to be replaced sooner? Possibly naive questions but I am interested nonetheless.

It is probably impossible to know for sure, but what would be an estimate for the oldest rails still in use on the network? 1960s is feasible to me but any earlier seems unlikely, as yards were used much more frequently and as such track would need to be replaced more often. I'm not counting ex-broad gauge rails used as fence posts, etc!

 

[AlterEgo]

You could certainly FOI Network Rail about this.

The oldest I was ever aware of on an open line was some track from the 1890s in a very little-used platform at Scarborough.

 

[Darandio]

It is probably impossible to know for sure, but what would be an estimate for the oldest rails still in use on the network? 1960s is feasible to me but any earlier seems unlikely, as yards were used much more frequently and as such track would need to be replaced more often.

I'll leave others to answer the other elements of your post but there are several threads on here discussing old track still in situ. Some stuff in Scotland in active passing loops apparently dates as far back as the 1920's.

 

[randyrippley]

Which begs another question: where jointed track still exists, why hasn't it been welded up in-situ? It was done in some places, why not all?

 

[Railsigns]

Which begs another question: where jointed track still exists, why hasn't it been welded up in-situ?

In short because expansion in the rails would cause them to buckle. Continuously welded rails are stressed so they can absorb expected temperature changes.

 

[randyrippley]

In short because expansion in the rails would cause them to buckle. Continuously welded rails are stressed so they can absorb expected temperature changes.

except in places it WAS done using thermite welding, with sliding joints to allow for expansion.

 

[Bald Rick]

except in places it WAS done using thermite welding, with sliding joints to allow for expansion.

‘Sliding joints‘ (breather switches) are not used in these circumstances. They are used in very specific circumstances, typically between CWR and jointed sections, or in areas of unstrengthened Switches / Crossings.

For the OP - there’s a difference between age of rails, and age of everything underneath them. Rail typically has a 30-40 year lifespan on main routes. But can be much longer on secondary routes - I’ve lifted out 19th century rail.

But there’s plenty of places where we install brand new bullhead jointed rail.

 

[hexagon789]

Cromer had some rails from around 1899 until about 10 years ago

Buckenham to Brundall had some rails stamped LNER from the late-40s, may still be there? Perhaps @dk1 could confirm/refute

York/Scarborough had some rails from the 30s and Seamer-Hull the 40s until about 12 years ago.

There are sleeper chairs from the 1910s on parts of the West Highland still, but the rails are newer. Some sidings still have original rails.

The Far North/Kyle reputedly has some rails from 1923/4 still in use.

The South West Main Line has some rails from 1966 still used very frequently.

I don't think anything with a 125mph speed is older than the 80s though.

 

[Bald Rick]

Cromer had some rails from around 1899 until about 10 years ago

Nearer 20 years ago, cos that was my example!

 

[Annetts key]

I don't think anything with a 125mph speed is older than the 80s though.

I don’t know about now, but there was a substantial amount of flat bottomed 113 lb LWR/CWR rails dating from 1970 to 1972 on parts of the GWML. Before the maintenance was taken back in house by Network Rail, for a short time, a special team went through recording the dates of all the rails.

Only a few years ago (actually likely five years ago), there were over one hundred transition rails (used between existing 113 lb rail and newer RT60 / NR60 rail) on the area covered by Western Central Delivery Unit alone.

 

[hexagon789]

Nearer 20 years ago, cos that was my example!

Well that makes sense in as much as I had to have read it somewhere!

I don’t know about now, but there was a substantial amount of flat bottomed 113 lb LWR/CWR rails dating from 1970 to 1972 on parts of the GWML. Before the maintenance was taken back in house by Network Rail, for a short time, a special team went through recording the dates of all the rails.

Only a few years ago (actually likely five years ago), there were over one hundred transition rails (used between existing 113 lb rail and newer RT60 / NR60 rail) on the area covered by Western Central Delivery Unit alone.

What sort of speeds were permitted on those sections?

Anything higher than 100mph?

 

[Annetts key]

What sort of speeds were permitted on those sections?

Anything higher than 100mph?

Yes, some are 110MPH and some 120MPH or 125MPH.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, some are 110MPH and some 120MPH or 125MPH.

Impressive, does that make them the fastest 1970s rails in the country?

 

[Railsigns]

I've read about a former practice where alternate fishplated joints were removed and the rails welded into 120-foot lengths. Listening to the sound of the train's wheels on the rail joints when travelling through Glenlochy on the Oban line suggests that it was done there.

 

[Bald Rick]

I've read about a former practice where alternate fishplated joints were removed and the rails welded into 120-foot lengths. Listening to the sound of the train's wheels on the rail joints when travelling through Glenlochy on the Oban line suggests that it was done there.

That can be done, but needs the joints to be wider.

 

[D6130]

I've read about a former practice where alternate fishplated joints were removed and the rails welded into 120-foot lengths.

When I was commuting on the Portsmouth Direct Line in the mid-late 1970s there were several sections like that. Off the top of my head, I can think of sections of the Down line between Godalming and Milford and between Petersfield and Rowlands Castle....and on the Up between Witley and Milford.

On my last visits to the Oban line (just under a year ago) and the Mallaig extension (just under five years ago), there were still sections of forty five foot (?) bull-head rail with staggered joints between Taynuilt and Connel Ferry (near Achnacloich) and between Locheilside and Glenfinnan (near the head of Loch Eil). The staccato rhythm produced by the wheels/rail joints on those sections gives the impression that the train is travelling much faster than it really is and the resulting corkscrew-like rocking motion feels a bit wierd if you're not used to it. Having travelled extensively on the old track in Ireland in the 1970s and '80s, I was well used to it!

 

[Railsigns]

On my last visits to the Oban line (just under a year ago) and the Mallaig extension (just under five years ago), there were still sections of forty five foot (?) bull-head rail with staggered joints between Taynuilt and Connel Ferry (near Achnacloich) and between Locheilside and Glenfinnan (near the head of Loch Eil.

Oh yes, I'm familiar with those, and there's a section between Arisaig and Morar too. I'd be interested to learn the actual length of the rails, which seem to me to be shorter than 45 feet. I wasn't aware that the joints are staggered.

 

[D6130]

I'd be interested to learn the actual length of the rails, which seem to me to be shorter than 45 feet. I wasn't aware that the joints are staggered.

Could be 40 feet. The sound and rocking motion would seem to indicate staggered joints, as was standard on a lot of Irish secondary main lines up until the wholesale renewals with concrete-sleepered CWR in the late 1990s/early 2000s as a result of the Knockcroghery derailment on the Westport line. I travelled over the Mallaig extension in the observation car several times in the 1980s and the relevant sections of track looked to me to have had staggered joints....although I couldn't swear to it. Unfortunately, I never managed to arrange a cab ride over the extension though.

 

[Deepgreen]

Which begs another question: where jointed track still exists, why hasn't it been welded up in-situ? It was done in some places, why not all?

There's a short section of what I believe are 45' rails left just east of Shalford station on the westbound line.

 

[Matey]

At Chippenham in 1950, a few hundred yards of the down line was relaid at the east end of the station. I chatted to one of the workmen who was standing by a neatly stacked pile of chairs which were dated 1907. I asked him how long rails lasted and he replied that on a long straight level stretch about 40 years or so. On an up gradient and curves less. All that took place in the days of steam of course. At that time it was fairly common to see old broad gauge rails on lightly used sidings, particularly under buffers.

 

[McRhu]

Does the practice of zig-zagging the railhead with a thin band of Manganese, to increase wear resistance, still exist?

 

[Annetts key]

Impressive, does that make them the fastest 1970s rails in the country?

Well, a lot, and I mean a lot of work was done in preparation for the introduction of the Intercity 125 HST… Including the replacement of conventional track circuits (that need IRJs) with audio frequency jointless’ track circuits (that don’t need IRJs). Although for some reason (maybe the money available ran out), not all conventional conventional track circuits were replaced in all the plain line sections.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jun 2023 ==

Does the practice of zig-zagging the railhead with a thin band of Manganese, to increase wear resistance, still exist?

That’s very expensive to do. So is normally only done where deemed essential. In track circuited areas, this is sometimes done on infrequently used sections to ensure the track circuit works correctly.

 

[Matey]

That’s very expensive to do. So is normally only done where deemed essential. In track circuited areas, this is sometimes done on infrequently used sections to ensure the track circuit works correctly.

I have only seen it on platform tracks open to the weather.

 

[McRhu]

That’s very expensive to do. So is normally only done where deemed essential. In track circuited areas, this is sometimes done on infrequently used sections to ensure the track circuit works correctly.

Thank you for that. I’ve also seen it done on level crossings, on point noses and on the last two foot section of track at the Lanark buffers.

 

[dk1]

Cromer had some rails from around 1899 until about 10 years ago

Buckenham to Brundall had some rails stamped LNER from the late-40s, may still be there? Perhaps @dk1 could confirm/refute

York/Scarborough had some rails from the 30s and Seamer-Hull the 40s until about 12 years ago.

There are sleeper chairs from the 1910s on parts of the West Highland still, but the rails are newer. Some sidings still have original rails.

The Far North/Kyle reputedly has some rails from 1923/4 still in use.

The South West Main Line has some rails from 1966 still used very frequently.

I don't think anything with a 125mph speed is older than the 80s though.

Sorry I know they’re very old indeed but not sure of dates.

 

[hexagon789]

Sorry I know they’re very old indeed but not sure of dates.

No problem, thanks anyway

 

[Bald Rick]

Does the practice of zig-zagging the railhead with a thin band of Manganese, to increase wear resistance, still exist?

That’s very expensive to do. So is normally only done where deemed essential. In track circuited areas, this is sometimes done on infrequently used sections to ensure the track circuit works correctly.

I have only seen it on platform tracks open to the weather.

Euston has them for the last 20 metres or so approaching the stops.

 

[Deepgreen]

That’s very expensive to do. So is normally only done where deemed essential. In track circuited areas, this is sometimes done on infrequently used sections to ensure the track circuit works correctly.

I have only seen it on platform tracks open to the weather.

It used to be the case near the buffers at Waterloo.

 

[snowball]

And near the buffers at Manchester Airport, I think (though I didn't know until I saw #21 that the metal in question is manganese).

 

[devon_belle]

Reading the replies, it boggles my mind that rails could last from the 1890s to the 2000s. Even under light use they must have been very flat!