ASLEF Overtime Ban at TPE Suspended

[Llandudno]

No cancellations at all on south Transpennine! All running Liverpool - Cleethorpes as well.

Is this the first Saturday ever that the full Liverpool - Cleethorpes service has operated without cancellations?

 

[Mattydo]

December 2021 RDW withdrawn. Earliest day for a RDW is Saturday 24th, to be rostered via the '48 hour' sheets. Any driver who wishes to be used for RDW to make themselves available for RDW.

Relatively swift process then. Will be interesting to see what the effect is. I guess it's been long enough that either people really fancy the extra income or have gotten very used to their full days off!

 

[john349uk]

Some rather passionate debates are occurring with regards to whether drivers should be working rest days or not, in the shadow of the national pay dispute. Seems like quite a few will be working them so I expect a significant improvement in service provision from next week, assuming that there's no more deviating from drivers terms which caused the overtime ban.

 

[Mattydo]

Some rather passionate debates are occurring with regards to whether drivers should be working rest days or not, in the shadow of the national pay dispute. Seems like quite a few will be working them so I expect a significant improvement in service provision from next week, assuming that there's no more deviating from drivers terms which caused the overtime ban.

Rest days continue as normal here with little debate over whether they should really except on those days where national overtime bans have been called. There is a feeling that an enduring RDW ban is more effective than a strike in terms of its effect on the private entity involved but as yet there doesn't seem to be an appetite for it as long as strikes are also continuing. Much like my depot I guess you'll find there is a spread of opinion. Good luck with it all!

 

[john349uk]

Rest days continue as normal here with little debate over whether they should really except on those days where national overtime bans have been called. There is a feeling that an enduring RDW ban is more effective than a strike in terms of its effect on the private entity involved but as yet there doesn't seem to be an appetite for it as long as strikes are also continuing. Much like my depot I guess you'll find there is a spread of opinion. Good luck with it all!

That's interesting, and thanks!

 

[LittleAH]

What a turnaround
Only 9 such cancellations today......

I’d wait until Monday…

Heavily reduced north route service due to no trains between Leeds and Huddersfield.

 

[43066]

Some rather passionate debates are occurring with regards to whether drivers should be working rest days or not, in the shadow of the national pay dispute. Seems like quite a few will be working them so I expect a significant improvement in service provision from next week, assuming that there's no more deviating from drivers terms which caused the overtime ban.

Certainly based on where I am, nobody has any qualms about working as many as they wish, despite the national backdrop. Then again I can imagine it’s a bigger issue where it’s been absent for such a long period.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2023 ==

Rest days continue as normal here with little debate over whether they should really except on those days where national overtime bans have been called. There is a feeling that an enduring RDW ban is more effective than a strike in terms of its effect on the private entity involved but as yet there doesn't seem to be an appetite for it as long as strikes are also continuing. Much like my depot I guess you'll find there is a spread of opinion. Good luck with it all!

Nobody where I am would dream of doing an overtime shift during a national ban, for sure. Some are/were uneasy about doing rest days during the RMT strikes, too. I’d see that as a different dispute, so no issues doing so personally. As always, it’s down to the individual.

 

[12LDA28C]

Realistically how long does it take to get RDW up and running again. It's a tick sheet operation at our TOC then collected at the end of the week to produce rosters starting a week hence so that in itself would take a couple of weeks. That's obviously assuming there is any interest. How long has it been withdrawn for now?

Surely once a RDW agreement is in place then it's instant - "driver, we have a turn open tomorrow, do you want to work your Rest Day?"

 

[basfordlad]

I’d wait until Monday…

Heavily reduced north route service due to no trains between Leeds and Huddersfield.

Thanks I didn't realise that

 

[driver9000]

Surely once a RDW agreement is in place then it's instant - "driver, we have a turn open tomorrow, do you want to work your Rest Day?"

In my experience there has always been a period of time between the agreement being made and it actually coming into force. This is to allow everyone involved to be informed of agreement and the terms of how RDW will be offered and rostered. It also gives Drivers time to inform the roster clerks that they wish to work rest days (it's opt in at TPE).

 

[Mattydo]

Surely once a RDW agreement is in place then it's instant - "driver, we have a turn open tomorrow, do you want to work your Rest Day?"

Works differently at different TOCS I guess. We don't get asked if we want to work a rest day unless we've made ourselves available and then it needs publishing on the daily sheets at least 48 hours in advance. Was just curious how it may work at TPE to get a realistic idea of when it might have an effect.

 

[Bald Rick]

My understanding here was that the ASLEF position on TPE was that there would be no discussion on lifting the RDW ban until the pay deal was done.

What changed?

 

[mandub]

My understanding here was that the ASLEF position on TPE was that there would be no discussion on lifting the RDW ban until the pay deal was done.

What changed?

Dunno for sure, but thought the issues were separate.
Aslef can't use rdw bans to chase a pay deal. Other TOC's have had rdw agreements throughout this dispute so wouldn't make sense for TPE alone to not have one to use as a bargaining chip with the RDG.
Northern have been offered RDW a couple of times during the dispute but at much lower rates than before and it's been considered and then rejected by Aslef on those conditions alone.

 

[fabs]

My understanding here was that the ASLEF position on TPE was that there would be no discussion on lifting the RDW ban until the pay deal was done.

What changed?

Members lobbying at branch.
Refreshing that the EC have listened to its members rather than going with their strategic political agenda.

I think it may support the national action. Drivers will now not be so out of pocket and even more likely to keep the strike mandates going.

 

[Goldfish62]

Members lobbying at branch.
Refreshing that the EC have listened to its members rather than going with their strategic political agenda.

I think it may support the national action. Drivers will now not be so out of pocket and even more likely to keep the strike mandates going.

Hardly surprising given there's a cost of living crisis and imminent mortgage crisis.

Certainly, some friends of mine who work on the railways are very glad that there's no RDW ban where they work, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford to keep striking.

 

[Mattydo]

I think this is probably key. People don't have the war chest that they used to. Houses require far larger amounts of financing, the cost of living and borrowing is currently under quite a squeeze. People do tend to live to their means more (a different debate and I don't want to start it here) but it means that a sustained strike alongside overtime ban can be quite difficult for some. Support for a strike at my TOC was still high this time but a significant amount of drivers voted against this time (and instead in favour of sustained RDW ban).

 

[fabs]

I think this is probably key. People don't have the war chest that they used to. Houses require far larger amounts of financing, the cost of living and borrowing is currently under quite a squeeze. People do tend to live to their means more (a different debate and I don't want to start it here) but it means that a sustained strike alongside overtime ban can be quite difficult for some. Support for a strike at my TOC was still high this time but a significant amount of drivers voted against this time (and instead in favour of sustained RDW ban).

Bang on.

But support for the strike here was waning, despite the rhetoric. 61% turnout tells you all you need to know.

I think turnout will increase now.

 

[class397tpe]

Is this the first Saturday ever that the full Liverpool - Cleethorpes service has operated without cancellations?

I think so, even the 68+Mk5 diagram ran!

 

[Some guy]

What is going on with TPE today. 0 cancellations at all today that must be the first cancel free day since pre covid. It seems the new MD who they took on from northern is slowly rebuilding the relationship with the staff

 

[greatkingrat]

What is going on with TPE today. 0 cancellations at all today that must be the first cancel free day since pre covid. It seems the new MD who they took on from northern is slowly rebuilding the relationship with the staff

There is engineering work this weekend, so fewer trains booked to run in the first place, and less drivers needed.

 

[Bald Rick]

Dunno for sure, but thought the issues were separate.

Aslef can't use rdw bans to chase a pay deal.

Why was the RDW ban on then?

Its my understanding that ASLEF were clear that there would be no RDW deal until the pay deal was done (even if the issues were separate)

Members lobbying at branch.
Refreshing that the EC have listened to its members rather than going with their strategic political agenda.

That is refreshing. Why did it need to wait until TPE were taken ‘in house’?

Or is that simply a remarkable coincidence.

 

[Killingworth]

What is going on with TPE today. 0 cancellations at all today that must be the first cancel free day since pre covid. It seems the new MD who they took on from northern is slowly rebuilding the relationship with the staff

Nothing running on South Pennine west of Piccadilly must help.

Northern have one cancelled return service between Manchester and Sheffield today. Instead of the normal 3 car 195s there's also a single 2 car 150 in the mix Last year it might have been a 6 car 195 on a warm sunny Sunday.

 

[class397tpe]

Nothing running on South Pennine west of Piccadilly must help.

Northern have one cancelled return service between Manchester and Sheffield today. Instead of the normal 3 car 195s there's also a single 2 car 150 in the mix Last year it might have been a 6 car 195 on a warm sunny Sunday.

Yeah I've noticed Northern seem to be falling back to sticking any old thing on the hope valley more and more - 6 car 195s were brilliant last year.

 

[MDB1images]

Why was the RDW ban on then?

Its my understanding that ASLEF were clear that there would be no RDW deal until the pay deal was done (even if the issues were separate)




That is refreshing. Why did it need to wait until TPE were taken ‘in house’?

Or is that simply a remarkable coincidence.

It would seem that it's not just the DFT/Government who are good at playing politics....

 

[43066]

Why was the RDW ban on then?

Its my understanding that ASLEF were clear that there would be no RDW deal until the pay deal was done (even if the issues were separate)

The history of the RDW ban is pretty well documented. ASLEF withdrew the agreement then sought to renew it, but for much of the last two years the rate ASLEF wanted wasn’t offered. The original rate was then offered, but then still not agreed due to the company reneging on agreements, as reported on here. It’s possible that the company has now committed to stick to those arrangements, hence resolving the issue preventing RDW being reintroduced.

That is refreshing. Why did it need to wait until TPE were taken ‘in house’?

Or is that simply a remarkable coincidence.

It would seem that it's not just the DFT/Government who are good at playing politics....

I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here.

ASLEF have been perfectly happy with rest day work agreements at my TOC (and many others) continuing throughout the dispute, despite no suggestion of the OLR getting involved.

 

[LittleAH]

Nothing running on South Pennine west of Piccadilly must help.

Northern have one cancelled return service between Manchester and Sheffield today. Instead of the normal 3 car 195s there's also a single 2 car 150 in the mix Last year it might have been a 6 car 195 on a warm sunny Sunday.

Northern have put their extra capacity on the Calder valley due to the engineering work between Leeds and Huddersfield. Also why TPE have few cancellations due to significantly reduced services

 

[gimmea50anyday]

And yet there is no ticket acceptance in place.....

 

[Peter Sarf]

Why was the RDW ban on then?

Its my understanding that ASLEF were clear that there would be no RDW deal until the pay deal was done (even if the issues were separate)




That is refreshing. Why did it need to wait until TPE were taken ‘in house’?

Or is that simply a remarkable coincidence.

I suppose a change of management would have triggered attempts by ASLEF and/or TOC (amongst others) to re-appraise the position they held. That would have been attempted regardless of the potential outcome. But the outcome seems to be good.

 

[Urobach]

Why was the RDW ban on then?

Its my understanding that ASLEF were clear that there would be no RDW deal until the pay deal was done (even if the issues were separate)

I don't recognise that position at all?

I understand the position was accepting "final offers" of payments and terms far worse than the previous rest day agreement was equivalent to a pay cut and couldn't be accepted. A broadly similar agreement to previous rest day agreement was eventually agreed, when an overtime ban was brought in due to 7 arbrogation of terms and conditions. They have since been addressed by the interim MD and the overtime ban suspended.

It's very clear the two are different disputes.

Should also be noted the company have stated they're keen to reset relationships with staff that have soured.

 

[jayah]

Speaking as someone outside the industry, the solution must be to recruit enough drivers so that running a full timetable is not dependent on rest-day working. But we know DfT and the TOCs don't want to pay for the extra training, along with increased pension commitments etc. Is that more or less correct?

It takes about a year to train a driver and 1-3 months to lose one.

The balkanisation of privatisation and the need for drivers to have competence on routes and traction means you have very small allocations of human resource that make it very difficult to forecast or resource changes hypothetically e.g. TPE at York vs LNER at York vs Northern at York.

It also means their competence largely mirrors the existing timetable and if TOCa varies their timetable or their rolling stock, a huge training requirement of hundreds and thousands of hours is dumped onto the roster.

In the BR model, a York driver might drive all of the routes and stock of the three depots above, larger depots sizes, more job variety, more flexibility and resilience.