Faster turnaround at a Long Distance Terminal

[Spekejunction]

I’m not second guessing the current system of turning a train around at say Euston or Kings Cross ..
but to pose the question as to why terminal stations are not designed to separate incoming and out going passengers ..which results in the so called Euston Rush.
A station with a platform at each side of the train would immediately separate passenger flows allowing departing passengers to be admitted to the platform and be ready to board..
once the cleaning and stocking of the train from the arrival side has been completed.
Thus each two sided platform can be designated either arrival/ servicing or departure
Turnaround times could be optimised ..
Maybe the HS2 Old Oak station might benefit from this approach..

 

[12LDA28C]

I’m not second guessing the current system of turning a train around at say Euston or Kings Cross ..
but to pose the question as to why terminal stations are not designed to separate incoming and out going passengers ..which results in the so called Euston Rush.
A station with a platform at each side of the train would immediately separate passenger flows allowing departing passengers to be admitted to the platform and be ready to board..
once the cleaning and stocking of the train from the arrival side has been completed.
Thus each two sided platform can be designated either arrival/ servicing or departure
Turnaround times could be optimised ..
Maybe the HS2 Old Oak station might benefit from this approach..

How would that work? Would doors on both sides of the train be open until departure time and if so, how would the train be dispatched? If you are closing one set of doors (the 'arrival side') before the other side (the 'departure' side), what process would be followed to allow that to happen?

It sounds a bit complicated to me.

 

[Spekejunction]

How would that work? Would doors on both sides of the train be open until departure time and if so, how would the train be dispatched? If you are closing one set of doors (the 'arrival side') before the other side (the 'departure' side), what process would be followed to allow that to happen?

It sounds a bit complicated to me.

 

[The Planner]

I’m not second guessing the current system of turning a train around at say Euston or Kings Cross ..
but to pose the question as to why terminal stations are not designed to separate incoming and out going passengers ..which results in the so called Euston Rush.
A station with a platform at each side of the train would immediately separate passenger flows allowing departing passengers to be admitted to the platform and be ready to board..
once the cleaning and stocking of the train from the arrival side has been completed.
Thus each two sided platform can be designated either arrival/ servicing or departure
Turnaround times could be optimised ..
Maybe the HS2 Old Oak station might benefit from this approach..

So Euston would need 32 platforms?

 

[Spekejunction]

Doors on departure side remain closed until the train is clear of incoming passengers and has been serviced with all equipment on the arrival side only ..
.the service crew can then transfer their attention to the incoming train on the other side of the platform.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2023 ==

So Euston would need 32 platforms?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2023 ==

Turnaround times would be considerably reduced..
I suggest you look at real-time trains to see how long current turnaround times are.
The biggest beef people have is the last minute display of platform information .

 

[The Planner]

Doors on departure side remain closed until the train is clear of incoming passengers and has been serviced with all equipment on the arrival side only ..
.the service crew can then transfer their attention to the incoming train on the other side of the platform.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2023 ==

So how does it make it quicker? You still need to add the time for everyone to get off to the time it takes to service and then for everyone to get on?

 

[skyhigh]

Turnaround times would be considerably reduced..
I suggest you look at real-time trains to see how long current turnaround times are.

Turnaround times are as they are to provide resilience in the timetable.

Look at a turnaround during disruption and you'll see how quickly it can be done under the current system.

 

[Otis]

I've used a similar set-up in use in one of the termini in Moscow, the equivalent of the Gatwick express arrives, doors on the left open and you can exit quickly because the platform is empty and everyone is heading the same way, once empty the doors can be swapped over (left close, right open) and rapid boarding can occur.

I'm not sure it's necessarily more efficient, but if space is not at a premium, it does seem an interesting approach.

 

[Spekejunction]

I've used a similar set-up in use in one of the termini in Moscow, the equivalent of the Gatwick express arrives, doors on the left open and you can exit quickly because the platform is empty and everyone is heading the same way, once empty the doors can be swapped over (left close, right open) and rapid boarding can occur.

I'm not sure it's necessarily more efficient, but if space is not at a premium, it doeit’s the separation of incoming and outgoing passengers that is key .and allows for passengers to be iin position at the correct place avoiding the stampede..

Glad to see that it’s a reality somewhere.
Separating arrivals from departures would make a big difference to the passenger experience especially at rush hour…

 

[zwk500]

Doors on departure side remain closed until the train is clear of incoming passengers and has been serviced with all equipment on the arrival side only ..
.the service crew can then transfer their attention to the incoming train on the other side of the platform.

Believe this is known as the Spanish Solution after the Barcelona metro which uses this method.

Turnaround times would be considerably reduced..
I suggest you look at real-time trains to see how long current turnaround times are.

Turnrounds are as long as they are because of the time it takes to clean, tank, stock and prep the set for the next service after 2-4 hours of the british public travelling on it. A Pendo can reverse in service in 15 minutes, turnrounds are usually in the 25-40 minute range at Euston. So there's not that much slack time.

Go to Victoria if you want quick turnrounds.

The biggest beef people have is the last minute display of platform information .

The platform number could be displayed earlier without needing to do anything with the platform time. A train arriving at Euston will be empty in less than 5 minutes, and a full train can move from concourse to train in a similar amount of time when pushed for it. The only way you're turning a train round in less than 10 minutes at Euston is if you're got Crews stepping up and abandoning the rubbish sweep.

 

[eldomtom2]

I'm not sure how much difference the Spanish solution makes for long-distance trains - the Shinkansen doesn't use it but is famous for its fast turnarounds...

 

[stuu]

I'm not sure how much difference the Spanish solution makes for long-distance trains - the Shinkansen doesn't use it but is famous for its fast turnarounds...

Japan benefits from having well trained passengers who leave and board quickly, and almost never leave trains looking like a tornado has hit a rubbish tip

 

[SynthD]

It’s barely any faster than letting the new passengers onto the platform while they clean. But for your idea to help, the gate staff have to agree with it. Will they, at Euston? Just fix that for a little less money.

 

[The Planner]

Doors on departure side remain closed until the train is clear of incoming passengers and has been serviced with all equipment on the arrival side only ..
.the service crew can then transfer their attention to the incoming train on the other side of the platform.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2023 ==



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2023 ==

Turnaround times would be considerably reduced..
I suggest you look at real-time trains to see how long current turnaround times are.
The biggest beef people have is the last minute display of platform information .

I know exactly how long they are as they are specified to us by operators. Last minute display of platforms is a seperate issue.

 

[Bald Rick]

Having studied this in detail in my early years …. It’s not necessary.

I have, personally, turned an intercity train around at Euston in 4 minutes. Yes it went out without being cleaned, tanked or rebuffeted, but it was done in 4 minutes.

Theres no reason why passengers for the outbound can’t be waiting on the platform.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I have, personally, turned an intercity train around at Euston in 4 minutes. Yes it went out without being cleaned, tanked or rebuffeted, but it was done in 4 minutes.

Quite common. Saw a late inbound CrossCountry turned round in four minutes at Manchester Piccadilly the other day. I'd barely had time to walk along the platform after alighting.

A significant problem with 'platforms both sides' can be if any of the under floor equipment needs to be examined, especially if a train is shut down and stabled overnight. I recall from my Southern days that we could never stable a locomotive in the Down Bay Siding at Southampton for that reason.