Bournemouth - Exeter via new link at Yeovil Junction

[BaxterDawg]

Links between Devon and South Dorset are pretty poor and current journey times are over 3 hours by train with at least 2 changes. No direct coach service exists either (perhaps suggesting there's no market for it!). A direct service between the 2 towns could help remove traffic on the A35 as well provide new economic opportunities for the region.

Possible solution could be an extension to the Manchester - Bournemouth XC Service (calling at Poole, Wareham, Dorchester West, Yeovil Junction, Axminster, Honiton, Exeter Central & Exeter St Davids). This would require reversing into Dorchester West (would that even be possible?) as well as a small section of new track into Yeovil Junction, linking the Heart of Wessex line with the West of England Line:



It would give Exeter a direct service to the New Forest (linking 2 national parks) and Southampton Airport, as well as more efficient connections to ferry services at Poole & Southampton.

Approx. Journey time would be 2hrs, making it a quicker and more reliable journey time than by car (approx. 2hrs 15m).

 

[Romsey]

This idea has been kicked around on odd occasions within BR / Network SE and Network Rail over many years.

The earthworks required are not too much, but it would mean considerable track arrangements, perhaps a new platform and a complete resignalling of both routes.
Then the journey time Bristol - Weymouth would be extended by maybe 10 minutes. That's not much in the great scheme of things (particularly with Bristol division timekeeping) but it would either make a mess of the plan at Bristol/Bath to maintain the connections at Weymouth/Dorchester or vice versa.

Plus there is the minor issue of altering or removing Yeovil Steam Centre.

The fast and dirty solution is a halt on the DOR line with a footpath and ramp parallel to the BAE line.

Cheers, Neil

 

[Xavi]

Watch this space, though no plans for an Exeter - Bournemouth service.

 

[30907]

Welcome to the forum.

If you use the search engine you will find various threads over the years - I think you are the first to suggest extending the XC service though.

Briefly: you would need signalling alterations at Dorchester Jn and Maiden Newton, plus a significant amount of additional double track, Moreton-Dorchester and West of Yeovil (not bad ideas!) to make it work.

I doubt if there's much of a market for Devon to Channel Islands or Cherbourg, but I do like the idea of Dartmoor and New Forest being connected for all those pony-lovers

PS I would use Dorchester South not West for more frequent Weymouth connections.

 

[zwk500]

The south curve is looked at regularly for Yeovil connectivity purposes. A Bournemouth-Exeter wouldn't happen for sure. And tbh a Weymouth-Exeter serves Yeovil better by reversing at Pen Mill anyway. One member/official of a local council in that area is extremely keen on the South Curve idea though, so expect it to bubble away.
FWIW I could find no evidence tracks were even laid on the south curve when I last looked , let alone that there was a junction there. The competition between the GWR and LSWR was brutal at times and Passenger convenience was not top of the priority list.

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/Southern/Dorset Connectivity Strategic Study.pdf have a read of this PDF which looks at local connectivity options for the railways in Dorset. The conclusion is that when 1tph Bristol-Weymouth is ready, it should do 2 sides of the triangle at Yeovil but given the costs involved I can see ministers balking at authorising such construction.

It would give Exeter a direct service to the New Forest (linking 2 national parks) and Southampton Airport, as well as more efficient connections to ferry services at Poole & Southampton.

Direct Exeter-Southampton is possible via Salisbury should it be desired. Ferries from Poole are very poorly connected to rail, being largely car services, and ferries from Southampton only go to the Isle of Wight (Portsmouth is the Ro-Ro port for the solent-continent run, and there's a bus from Portsmouth Harbour to the port).

 

[Irascible]

I doubt if there's much of a market for Devon to Channel Islands or Cherbourg

Practically nil to the Channel Islands given the number of flights from Exeter. Cherbourg possibly, the road is a bit mixed, not sure if it's enough for this amount of effort though.

FWIW I could find no evidence tracks were even laid on the south curve when I last looked

Pretty sure there wasn't ever any track there.

 

[swt_passenger]

I’d suggest a hypothetical through service from Exeter with a reversal somewhere south of Dorchester would be no faster than going via Salisbury for most stations in the New Forest. Or to the other supposed target destination of Southampton Airport.

 

[30907]

Cherbourg possibly, the road is a bit mixed, not sure if it's enough for this amount of effort though.

Unfortunately the ferry tends to sail at breakfast time and return quite late, making onward rail travel in the UK impossible.

I’d suggest a hypothetical through service from Exeter with a reversal somewhere south of Dorchester would be no faster than going via Salisbury for most stations in the New Forest. Or to the other supposed target destination of Southampton Airport.

It would work for the Bournemouth conurbation though, to be fair.
The trouble is, the market is a bit limited - to the extent that it no longer supports a coach service along the A35.

 

[islandmonkey]

A more highly expensive option would be to connect Bournemouth with Salisbury via rail, with stations at Ringwood and Fordingbridge as a minimum. The X3 bus is great (have taken it the whole way) but the rail scheme would be more about wider connectivity and giving a faster link within the communities between Bournemouth and Salisbury.

Ringwood feels like one of those places where a train station is conspicuously missing.

 

[Irascible]

Unfortunately the ferry tends to sail at breakfast time and return quite late, making onward rail travel in the UK impossible.

Not exactly great for getting there by road either!

Ringwood feels like one of those places where a train station is conspicuously missing.

Well, it had one but on Poole - Brockenhurst line, the other Salisbury line peeled off earlier in the loop. There was a line down to Christchurch which is a corridor that looks undeveloped, but that seems a bit of a meander. A totally new route might have ... obstacles.

 

[Western Sunset]

Bournemouth is in the South West Region of England, along with Bristol, Glos, Wilts and points west. Thus when, for example, I worked for Bournemouth Council, our regional meetings were in places like Bristol, Exeter, Taunton, etc. Bournemouth being very much on the edge of the region.
It was bad enough trying to get to Bristol by train, having to head east to Southampton first, before turning to head in the right direction. For any other destinations I was given a hire-car; the train just not being a viable alternative in either time or cost.

Whilst, on a regional basis, it would be "nice" to have better links across the region, I can't see see it ever happening. Especially with the London-centric nature of our national rail network.

 

[islandmonkey]

Well, it had one but on Poole - Brockenhurst line, the other Salisbury line peeled off earlier in the loop. There was a line down to Christchurch which is a corridor that looks undeveloped, but that seems a bit of a meander. A totally new route might have ... obstacles.

My totally armchair and uneducated route would be Bournemouth - Pokesdown - Christchurch - Ringwood - (Verwood?) - (Alderholt?) - Fordingbridge - Downton - (Alderbury and Whaddon?) - Salisbury.

A quick scan on OpenRailwayMap reveals that the A338 duel carriageway was the site of the latter line you mentioned.

Could have an all route stopper, and then a service that goes to Bristol or whatever that calls at some selection of stations on the route. Might attach with the Portsmouth - Cardiff train at Salisbury.

 

[DerekC]

The south curve is looked at regularly for Yeovil connectivity purposes. A Bournemouth-Exeter wouldn't happen for sure. And tbh a Weymouth-Exeter serves Yeovil better by reversing at Pen Mill anyway. One member/official of a local council in that area is extremely keen on the South Curve idea though, so expect it to bubble away.
FWIW I could find no evidence tracks were even laid on the south curve when I last looked , let alone that there was a junction there. T

Pretty sure there wasn't ever any track there.

Kentrail has a comprehensive article about the history of Yeovil Junction - see the link below.

https://www.kentrail.org.uk/yeovil_junction 2.htm


Regarding the south curve it says:

"The GWR withdrew from the site in July 1937, when traffic ceased to be carried over the Clifton Maybank branch on 17th of that month. The 21-lever signal box at Clifton Maybank Junction remained in use until 1st November of the same year; the transfer shed at the Junction station retained a rail connection until 1952, and the branch became an elongated siding. In the past, the GWR had ambitions to provide this branch with an additional Weymouth-facing connection, creating a triangular junction, but works got no further than forming an embankment south of the LSWR station."

 

[Grecian 1998]

One of the major problems is the lack of current capacity on both the West of England and Heart of Wessex for additional services. There are regular proposals to add additional double track or passing loops to the WoE as per the 2020 NR Line Study, with more infrequent proposals to upgrade the HoW. In the meantime, finding new paths isn't going to be easy and having say a 158 joining an existing service for each leg is likely to be operationally impractical at best.

The 2021 study linked to by @zwk500 is the first study I've seen looking at improving the HoW. It appears the main idea for improving capacity is extending Maiden Newton loop which makes sense. An interesting thought that a level crossing in Poole can have a significant impact on a hypothetical service running to Exeter.

Another option for Exeter - Bournemouth could be creating a north to west curve at Redbridge. However this might be difficult given the River Test is in the way, and there would need to be confidence the market was big enough to justify missing Southampton altogether, which seems unlikely.

 

[zwk500]

One of the major problems is the lack of current capacity on both the West of England and Heart of Wessex for additional services. There are regular proposals to add additional double track or passing loops to the WoE as per the 2020 NR Line Study, with more infrequent proposals to upgrade the HoW. In the meantime, finding new paths isn't going to be easy and having say a 158 joining an existing service for each leg is likely to be operationally impractical at best.

You could get 1tph with some skip stops on the Heart of Wessex but it required being able to pass Maiden Newton at speed.

The 2021 study linked to by @zwk500 is the first study I've seen looking at improving the HoW. It appears the main idea for improving capacity is extending Maiden Newton loop which makes sense. An interesting thought that a level crossing in Poole can have a significant impact on a hypothetical service running to Exeter.

The level crossing was more in relation to the Bournemouth side of that study, but yes anything that could affect timings on the Dorchester-Weymouth section would not be helpful for that level Crosing.

Another option for Exeter - Bournemouth could be creating a north to west curve at Redbridge. However this might be difficult given the River Test is in the way, and there would need to be confidence the market was big enough to justify missing Southampton altogether, which seems unlikely.

Not a chance. You'd be creating a section of junctions so tight between each other the signals couldn't be close enough to maintain headways, and there isn't the room for the 800m standage you'd need on the Redbridge-Romsey chord for freight.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I doubt if there's much of a market for Devon to Channel Islands or Cherbourg,

The Penzance-Portsmouth service and its return operated by Wessex Trains were very popular trains. They reversed at Westbury and offered connections to the Bournemouth line at Southampton. Many passengers were heading for cruises. This traffic now entails a change at Westbury.
Their were proposals in the 80s to lay the Yeovil south chord to allow trains to and from Weymouth to run via Yeovil Junction to provide better connections to the WoE line.

 

[30907]

The Penzance-Portsmouth service and its return operated by Wessex Trains were very popular trains. They reversed at Westbury and offered connections to the Bournemouth line at Southampton. Many passengers were heading for cruises.

Indeed, IIRC a 2-car train.

Solent-Exeter is undoubtedly a bigger flow than Bournemouth-Exeter and a faster service (and/or a through service) might well increase loadings. The trouble is, it doesn't look to be a big enough flow to justify substantial investment on the (SR) WoE route. Diverting via Dorchester would cater for the Bournemouth market, but considerably slow down the Solent market - and require as much investment.

 

[Irascible]

Bournemouth is in the South West Region of England, along with Bristol, Glos, Wilts and points west

Weeell... thing is once you draw a line somewhere about Bridport, people west of that don't really look at Bournemouth ( or even Weymouth ) as being in the same place. Bristol is a remote but distantly relevant place with an airport, rather like London ( and yes I know Bournemouth has one too - I don't know anyone here who's used it ) & the idea of the area having anything to do with Glos. is laughable - that's the west Midlands as far as attitudes go. That is rather represented in the east-west transport links... and the differentiation between westcountry & south-west ( I always thought ITV areas were a rather canny representation of the country, honestly ).

Southampton cruise traffic is surely not enough to justify extra infrastructure unless it's extra double track on the WoE - and there can't be enough for that. Seems a bit mad to go all the way down to Dorchester on a Solent service.

 

[A0]

I doubt if there's much of a market for Devon to Channel Islands or Cherbourg,

Practically nil to the Channel Islands given the number of flights from Exeter. Cherbourg possibly, the road is a bit mixed, not sure if it's enough for this amount of effort though.

Anyone in Devon looking to use a ferry to get to France will simply go via Plymouth and sail to Roscoff, which for the holiday destinations in the south or south-west of France is just as convenient, if not more so, than Cherbourg.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2023 ==

Links between Devon and South Dorset are pretty poor and current journey times are over 3 hours by train with at least 2 changes. No direct coach service exists either (perhaps suggesting there's no market for it!). A direct service between the 2 towns could help remove traffic on the A35 as well provide new economic opportunities for the region.

There is a direct bus between Weymouth and Axminster (used to run to Exeter) which gives a link from west Dorset to east Devon.

Further out than that - it's worth remembering that Bournemouth - Dorchester is 30 miles, Dorchester - Exeter is another 60 miles, so Bournemouth - Exeter is in the region of 90 miles - that's long distance by most standards. For Bournemouth that's pretty much the same distance as it is to Brighton (94 miles), Gloucester (95 miles) or Minehead (90 miles) - yet I'm not sure there are demands to travel to those either. Bear in mind the average commute is a 23 mile round trip - so about 12 miles each way,.

 

[Western Sunset]

There used to be the Jurassic Coast bus service between Bournemouth and Exeter, using a fleet of attractive-livered modern double-deckers. Though that died a death some 5 - 10 years ago...

 

[zwk500]

There used to be the Jurassic Coast bus service between Bournemouth and Exeter, using a fleet of attractive-livered modern double-deckers. Though that died a death some 5 - 10 years ago...

It's almost as if the markets been tested

 

[A0]

There used to be the Jurassic Coast bus service between Bournemouth and Exeter, using a fleet of attractive-livered modern double-deckers. Though that died a death some 5 - 10 years ago...

What still runs is between Weymouth and Axminster - which probably gives you a pretty good idea of where the demand actually is and also how much demand there was for end to end journeys.

 

[devon_belle]

FWIW I could find no evidence tracks were even laid on the south curve when I last looked , let alone that there was a junction there. The competition between the GWR and LSWR was brutal at times and Passenger convenience was not top of the priority list.

This is correct. Clifton Maybank curve (Yeovil Jnc south side to HoW Northbound) was originally built as a broad gauge exchange depot, later standard gauge used until 1937; Bradford Abbas curve (WoE Westbound, east of Yeovil Jnc at 'Bradford Abbas Jnc' to Yeovil Town branch northbound at 'Yeovil Upper Jnc') was used until 1870. Good to recall there was no passenger connection between HoW and Yeovil Jnc-Yeovil Town branch until 1943 as a wartime measure.

The south curve is looked at regularly for Yeovil connectivity purposes. A Bournemouth-Exeter wouldn't happen for sure.

Curious for what connectivity purposes it is being looked at - just Weymouth to Exeter? I agree better connections Exeter to Solent would be preferred.

 

[randyrippley]

This is correct. Clifton Maybank curve (Yeovil Jnc south side to HoW Northbound) was there as a broad gauge exchange depot until the 1937 and Bradford Abbas curve (WoE Westbound, east of Yeovil Jnc, to Yeovil Town branch northbound) until 1870. Good to recall there was no passenger connection between HoW and Yeovil Jnc-Yeovil Town branch until 1943 as a wartime measure.

And anecdotally that wartime link was never used / needed

 

[devon_belle]

And anecdotally that wartime link was never used / needed

Is that true? I seem to recall hearing that Granges and Halls had made it onto the WoE line but I have absolutely no evidence to back it up.

This is correct.

Just checked and earthworks were indeed built for a triangle junction from Clifton Maybank in 1864, but track was not laid on the southern chord. Presumably it was intended for Broad Gauge goods exchange from the Weymouth direction but never needed.

 

[zwk500]

Curious for what connectivity purposes it is being looked at - just Weymouth to Exeter? I agree better connections Exeter to Solent would be preferred.

Bristol-Weymouth only. HoW trains would run Pen Mill-Junction-Maiden Newton to connect into WoE line trains. Would be very pricey for minimal benefit IMHO but it fulfills Dorset council's goals so is included in the strategic advice for development. Weymouth-Exeter wasn't in any service spec (Westbury-Yeovil was required to maintain spare capacity for GWR).
1tph was achievable with moderate infrastructure amendment without the curve, requiring non-stop running through Maiden Newton but had zero recovery time in the pattern so would need linespeed uplifts or extended loops to run a robust timetable.

 

[randyrippley]

Is that true? I seem to recall hearing that Granges and Halls had made it onto the WoE line but I have absolutely no evidence to back it up.

Just checked and earthworks were indeed built for a triangle junction from Clifton Maybank in 1864, but track was not laid on the southern chord. Presumably it was intended for Broad Gauge goods exchange from the Weymouth direction but never needed.

If you actually look at the embankment for the southern curve it aligns on the transfer goods shed, not the station platforms.
You'd have to rebuild it to align more to the north to be usable and would need a fairly tight curve to the east of platforms 3/4 - cutting off the steam centre from the main line and also severing it's only running line: the remains of the Clifton Maybank curve.

As for why the southern curve was never finished, it was probably easier to transfer freight at Yeovil Town or Hendford, which became a dedicated goods station. (By Hendford I mean the original station, not Hendford Halt)

 

[Irascible]

Anyone in Devon looking to use a ferry to get to France will simply go via Plymouth and sail to Roscoff, which for the holiday destinations in the south or south-west of France is just as convenient, if not more so, than Cherbourg.

If it wasn't so awkward then weekenders in Normandy might be popular, but by the time you've got to the port & then taken the ferry it's half the day gone already... Plymouth-Roscoff is a definite journey alll by itself, not really a casual trip.

What still runs is between Weymouth and Axminster - which probably gives you a pretty good idea of where the demand actually is and also how much demand there was for end to end journeys.

Showing how much I think about using it, I thought the break was in Bridport!

 

[A0]

If it wasn't so awkward then weekenders in Normandy might be popular, but by the time you've got to the port & then taken the ferry it's half the day gone already... Plymouth-Roscoff is a definite journey alll by itself, not really a casual trip.



Showing how much I think about using it, I thought the break was in Bridport!

There are very few areas in the UK where a "weekender in Normandy" is remotely practical. It certainly isn't a large enough market to even come close to justifying this proposal.

 

[30907]

Is that true? I seem to recall hearing that Granges and Halls had made it onto the WoE line but I have absolutely no evidence to back it up.

Not wartime, but I remember a report of emergency diversions when the GW route was blocked - there's a photo in a Railway Mag around 1962 of a Warship heading the Up Riviera at Crewkerne. Not sure I can find it though!

May be significant that it was a diesel, as bigger GW steam locos would have had gauging problems.