ASLEF strike mandate renewed

[theageofthetra]

No surprise there, either!

At some stage the penny will drop that the “offer” needs to be improved and local negotiations enabled, or this will continue to the next election (along with overtime bans, working to rule etc. if going on strike is made more difficult).



This would just enable bad faith delaying tactics from the employer (government) as we have seen in this dispute: eg by making an “offer” with zero negotiation (the first ASLEF offer), or inserting clauses that will never be accepted (the RMT offer including blanket DOO).



To be fair there’s been little evidence of either union “targeting” events thus far. If anything they have deliberately left major events alone. Of course there will be something the Daily Mail can jump on virtually every weekend to suggest has been targeted by the evil unions!



ASLEF has indicated a willingness to continue talks - potentially a window for that now that the latest strike dates have finished.



The Ts and Cs are much more of a concern. In terms of “what next”, simply keep going is the predominant feeling, as underpinned by this latest ballot. Worse case scenario is continuing right up until the election but, even if that happens, we are likely already closer to the end than the beginning, assuming it’s called early autumn as some have predicted.



Those who are reliant on overtime to that extent will be outnumbered almost everywhere by those who do little to no overtime and would actually prefer an overtime ban to strike action!

The big issue with an overtime ban, at my TOC is the disgusting and spiteful behaviour of our management during the last ones.

Drivers with leave booked for months had leave declined, as suddenly only one was allowed off. In most of those cases there were multiple drivers sitting spare, so there was no operational reason for that leave to be declined.


Similarly they kept spares sitting around for the full shift, not for any operational reasons. Just pure spite.


If drivers who have spent thousands on summer holidays find they can't go because previously agreed ad hoc leave gets cancelled then all hell will break lose at our place.

It's worth also pointing out that at no point was this communicated to us by ASLEF and drivers only found out when leave got cancelled.


Are any other TOCs behaving in this appalling manner?

For clarification we are talking about adhoc as opposed to rostered leave.

 

[JonathanH]

At some stage the penny will drop that the "offer" isn't going to be imp

Then the dispute won't ever be settled. As people note, the best hope is a different government in 2024.

 

[theageofthetra]

It'll be a coincidence if strikes are called during Wimbledon I guess,but it does run for 2 weeks of course.

Affects very few most arrive by TFL at Southfields.

 

[Train_manager]

I suspect that if the TfW deal is accepted, it'll be the template for Labour if they get into Government.

Where do I sign. I don't know the full ins and outs(t&C's) but cash wise it's an excellent offer.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I’m just glad we are not striking on the 23rd & 24th of this month as I need the train after cancelling on two previous occasions. Must admit to being very surprised as those dates coincide with Glastonbury.

Previous mandate expired on 11th June (I think!) and the new mandate only arrived today so within the two week window for action to be called.

 

[footprints]

Then the dispute won't ever be settled. As people note, the best hope is a different government in 2024.

Isn't the best strategy in the interim therefore to keep the strike mandate live (as on London Underground) to protect terms and conditions but not continually lose members' money with nothing to show for it?

 

[JonathanH]

Isn't the best strategy in the interim therefore to keep the strike mandate live (as on London Underground) but not continually lose members' money with nothing to show for it?

Yes, but there needs to be an occasional reminder that the mandate and dispute remains live.

 

[dk1]

Previous mandate expired on 11th June (I think!) and the new mandate only arrived today so within the two week window for action to be called.

I got lucky for a change Cheers.

 

[Class15]

To be fair there’s been little evidence of either union “targeting” events thus far. If anything they have deliberately left major events alone. Of course there will be something the Daily Mail can jump on virtually every weekend to suggest has been targeted by the evil unions!

A bit of a niche, but both the class 315 farewell tour and Alexandra Palace show just “happened” to be on strike days. Being a Londoner I wasn’t affected but…

 

[irish_rail]

At some stage perhaps the penny will drop that the offer isn't going to be improved.

If the RMT and Aslef are to continue striking regardless, what have the government got to lose by eventually just imposing the changes anyway?

Well if they go down that route, good luck forcing drivers to work compulsory overtime. I for one wouldn't come in if rostered an overtime Sunday that I didn't fancy working (say Christmas eve this year), if I or the union hadn't signed off and agreed it. So if they want to impose the pay offer on us, fine, but the change of conditions won't be enforceable, and would be met with much worse action than what has been seen so far!

 

[riceuten]

I suspect the next move to be some planted stories in the Telegraph and the Times about "banning strikes in the public sector". Though how they are going to get compulsory overtime through, I have no idea - dismiss all and re-engage ?

 

[Confused52]

Yes you have.

You’ve completely ignored the more detailed “offer” document which contained details of what is envisaged by the government - TOCs to take full control of rostering subject only to consultation, not agreement. Changes to spare arrangements, Sunday arrangements etc. as I have already set out. This brief document adds no additional clarity to that. Fairly obviously any ambiguity in a document drafted by the government is going be construed in the most pro government/anti union way - so why would any union in its right mind agree to it?

It’s completely clear to me as an ASLEF member why this “offer” is utterly unacceptable. You can split irrelevant hairs and tell me I’m wrong. But the fact remains the union has rejected it and the membership has resoundingly voted in support of continuing action. It’s equally clear from our previous exchanges (especially your loaded comments about ASLEF overtime rates) that you have a staunchly anti union agenda, and will only ever argue that ASLEF are in the wrong, so what exactly is the point of discussing it?

Where is this document so I can read it please. I have not ignored it because I haven't seen it or a link to it. Not everyone who is sceptical about this dispute is anti-union and it is wrong to deflect discussion by using it as a ploy to denigrate those who don't just agree with one point of view. I have a very strong desire to have a reliable functioning railway and whether unions are part of such a railway is irrelevant to me.

 

[Thirteen]

As I've said, Pride on 1st July would be a big event that could be disrupted by a rail strike but it would make the unions a very easy target by the media and the Government accusing them of being homophobic, it's similar to the RMT moving their strike date last November because it clashed with Poppy collections.

 

[Towers]

The big issue with an overtime ban, at my TOC is the disgusting and spiteful behaviour of our management during the last ones.

Drivers with leave booked for months had leave declined, as suddenly only one was allowed off. In most of those cases there were multiple drivers sitting spare, so there was no operational reason for that leave to be declined.


Similarly they kept spares sitting around for the full shift, not for any operational reasons. Just pure spite.


If drivers who have spent thousands on summer holidays find they can't go because previously agreed ad hoc leave gets cancelled then all hell will break lose at our place.

It's worth also pointing out that at no point was this communicated to us by ASLEF and drivers only found out when leave got cancelled.


Are any other TOCs behaving in this appalling manner?

For clarification we are talking about adhoc as opposed to rostered leave.

This is the harsh reality of an overtime ban (or a ‘work to rule’); it’s a two way street and works both ways. It is rather naive to expect an employer to pay staff to go home early whilst those same staff are actively engaged in organised action to disrupt the running of the business, regardless of one’s viewpoint or feelings about the rights & wrongs of it all.

Is there not an agreed level of ‘guaranteed’ adhoc leave which should be granted at your depot?

To clarify, I’m not casting an opinion either way here!

 

[ComUtoR]

It's worth also pointing out that at no point was this communicated to us by ASLEF and drivers only found out when leave got cancelled.

DCC knew for some time what was happening. They were actively involved in the decision process.

 

[dk1]

As I've said, Pride on 1st July would be a big event that could be disrupted by a rail strike but it would make the unions a very easy target by the media and the Government accusing them of being homophobic, it's similar to the RMT moving their strike date last November because it clashed with Poppy collections.

Is Pride that important event wise?

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Well if they go down that route, good luck forcing drivers to work compulsory overtime. I for one wouldn't come in if rostered an overtime Sunday that I didn't fancy working (say Christmas eve this year), if I or the union hadn't signed off and agreed it. So if they want to impose the pay offer on us, fine, but the change of conditions won't be enforceable, and would be met with much worse action than what has been seen so far!

Driver phones in sick on a Saturday evening, resumes Sunday evening for Monday shift. Not officially marked as sick anywhere because it’s an overtime day, not a normal day. Doesn’t get paid but that’s fine, that’s the goal anyway. Repeat each week.

 

[dk1]

Driver phones in sick on a Saturday evening, resumes Sunday evening for Monday shift. Not officially marked as sick anywhere because it’s an overtime day, not a normal day. Doesn’t get paid but that’s fine, that’s the goal anyway. Repeat each week.

Yes and at my TOC comes in spare Monday as their turn is already covered so slides off home after approx 5hrs.

 

[choochoochoo]

Yes and at my TOC comes in spare Monday as their turn is already covered so slides off home after approx 5hrs.

Do you not pick up your rostered job after returning from sick. The driver who was meant to cover the turn reverts to spare ?

or does the rest day worker covering a sick shift keep the turn because they’re being paid more to do the job ?

 

[dk1]

Do you not pick up your rostered job after returning from sick. The driver who was meant to cover the turn reverts to spare ?

or does the rest day worker covering a sick shift keep the turn because they’re being paid more to do the job ?

It’s how it has always been. The person who’s picked the job up keeps it. Sometimes if a decent duty manager is on they’ll be offered the chance to do half each. I’ve always had more respect for my job to behave in such a way but you’ll always get those that do.