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ASLEF strike mandate renewed

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father_jack

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For info.


Members of ASLEF, the train drivers’ union, have voted overwhelmingly to continue strike action in the union’s ongoing national dispute over pay.

Commenting on the ballot results, General Secretary Mick Whelan said:

“Once again our members have decided, and made it clear that we are in this for the long haul.

“Train drivers are sick to the back teeth of their employers and the government failing to negotiate in good faith, and blaming drivers for their inability to manage services and the rail industry effectively.

“ASLEF members, the key workers who kept our country moving through the pandemic, are simply asking for a fair deal on pay so that they can afford to keep up with their outgoings in this government-made cost of living crisis.

“We have always said we are prepared to come to the table but the government and the train companies need to understand that this dispute won’t be resolved by trying to bully our members into accepting worse terms and conditions.”



Results of Ballots



Great Western Railway

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 1044 (90.63%)

NO 108 (9.37%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 1105 (96.17%)

NO 44 (3.83%)



Turnout: 78.45%





South Western Railway - Depot Drivers

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 40 (90.91%)

NO 4 (9.09%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 43 (97.73%)

NO 1 (2.27%)



Turnout: 68.75%





South Western Railway - Island Line

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 10 (100%)

NO 0 (0%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 10 (100%)

NO 0 (0%)



Turnout: 90.91%





CrossCountry

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 487 (95.49%)

NO 23 (4.51%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 498 (97.84%)

NO 11 (2.16%)



Turnout: 85.28%





London North Eastern Railway (Pay Dispute)

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 350 (96.69%)

NO 12 (3.31%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 342 (97.44%)

NO 9 (2.56%)



Turnout: 86.87%





London North Eastern Railway (Agreements Dispute)

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 351 (96.96%

NO 11 (3.04%)



Turnout: 86.40%





Avanti West Coast

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 474 (96.34%)

NO 18 (3.66%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 480 (97.56%)

NO 12 (2.44%)



Turnout: 83.00%





South Western Railway

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 1009 (93.43%)

NO 71 (6.57%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 1059 (97.69%)

NO 25 (2.31%)



Turnout: 87.87%





Southeastern

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 695 (91.09%)

NO 68 (8.91%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 729 (96.05%)

NO 30 (3.95%)



Turnout: 78.04%





West Midlands Trains

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 683 (95.13%)

NO 35 (4.87%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 696 (97.07%)

NO 21 (2.93%)



Turnout: 83.14%





GTR Great Northern Thameslink

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 733 (86.34%)

NO 116 (13.66%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 807 (95.05%)

NO 42 (4.95%)



Turnout: 74.11%





Greater Anglia

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 562 (96.73%)

NO 19 (3.27%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 561 (96.56%)

NO 20 (3.44%)



Turnout: 81.88%





GTR Southern/Gatwick Express

Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?

YES 689 (85.38%)

NO 118 (14.62%)



Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?

YES 757 (94.15%)

NO 47 (5.85%)



Turnout: 72.43%
 
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mandub

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Yet ministers keep saying Aslef should put "the deal" to a membership vote
 

1D54

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So when can we expect the next dates to be called?
 

DanNCL

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I note two separate ballots for LNER there with agreements and pay separately, but all the others only have one ballot. Is there a separate dispute over agreements at LNER that isn't the case at the other TOCs?
 

ainsworth74

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I note two separate ballots for LNER there with agreements and pay separately, but all the others only have one ballot. Is there a separate dispute over agreements at LNER that isn't the case at the other TOCs?
I want to know who the one person was that was hacked off enough with the agreements dispute that they voted to strike but wasn't willing to strike over the pay dispute and what their reasoning was! :lol:
 

Bletchleyite

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Yet ministers keep saying Aslef should put "the deal" to a membership vote

They effectively just did, didn't they?

FWIW, I do think putting a formal deal to a vote should be mandatory, but I think it's fairly clear what would happen if they had. It just removes any arguments about whether anyone was acting improperly or not.
 

Efini92

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They effectively just did, didn't they?

FWIW, I do think putting a formal deal to a vote should be mandatory, but I think it's fairly clear what would happen if they had. It just removes any arguments about whether anyone was acting improperly or not.
I’d have happily voted no if the RDG/government had paid for the ballots to be sent out.
 

BrummieBobby

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They effectively just did, didn't they?

FWIW, I do think putting a formal deal to a vote should be mandatory, but I think it's fairly clear what would happen if they had. It just removes any arguments about whether anyone was acting improperly or not.

Surely this would just allow employers and the government to waste more time by submitting offers that would never be accepted by the membership, but the union would be obliged to conduct costly and time consuming ballots?
 

12LDA28C

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So when can we expect the next dates to be called?

Minimum of 14 days' notice so assuming nothing is announced today then earliest 29th June. Too late to affect Glastonbury but other major events may well be targeted.
 

1D54

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Thanks for that, i just thought that the union might give it a week or two to allow a response from the government but get the feeling I'm being rather silly expecting anything positive from them!
 

12LDA28C

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Thanks for that, i just thought that the union might give it a week or two to allow a response from the government but get the feeling I'm being rather silly expecting anything positive from them!

I suspect the only response you can expect from the Government is an announcement saying they are 'disappointed' or suchlike, without any commitment to restart negotiations.
 

Mag_seven

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I suspect the only response you can expect from the Government is an announcement saying they are 'disappointed' or suchlike, without any commitment to restart negotiations.

Or they will say its a matter between the TOCs and the Union at the same time as tying the TOCS hands so they (the TOCs) can't improve the offer.
 

DarloRich

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FWIW, I do think putting a formal deal to a vote should be mandatory, but I think it's fairly clear what would happen if they had. It just removes any arguments about whether anyone was acting improperly or not.
that relies on a fairness of spirit that just isn't possible, especially with this government.

You must know that such a rule would simply be a charter for the government/employer to make spurious offers and waste time and money for no real benefit. Couple that with a mandatory exclusion of industrial action for the period of the consultation on the spurious offer and you have a superb mechanism for making strikes impossible while ensuring they remain totally legal!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Or they will say its a matter between the TOCs and the Union at the same time as tying the TOCS hands so they (the TOCs) can't improve the offer.
is the correct answer!
 

12LDA28C

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Or they will say its a matter between the TOCs and the Union at the same time as tying the TOCS hands so they (the TOCs) can't improve the offer.

That was certainly Shapps' approach and look where that got him... hopefully we have moved on from that kind of thing.
 

Silverlinky

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So what next? Do they really step up the action and if they do will anyone take any notice?
Lets face it, the one day here and one day there is having little effect other than to lose their members money, and every day's pay lost by a driver equates needing a further 0.35% pay increase to get that money back.
Do they just remain in dispute and not call any further action as nobody believes the current government is going to give them any extra?

Action short of a strike is difficult when at the same time rest day working agreements are being extended, and on some operators ASOS has little of no effect anyway, other than to lose members more money, especially those who have grown to become dependant on overtime over the past few years. I know there are drivers at my TOC who openly gloat that they have earned six figures in the past, so to be on flat money must be a hell of a hit for some.

I just don't see a way out of this, realistically nothing more than 4 or 5% is going to be offered is it? Even as a flat figure without "attacking" the T's and C's.
 

43066

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Yet ministers keep saying Aslef should put "the deal" to a membership vote

No surprise there, either!

At some stage the penny will drop that the “offer” needs to be improved and local negotiations enabled, or this will continue to the next election (along with overtime bans, working to rule etc. if going on strike is made more difficult).

FWIW, I do think putting a formal deal to a vote should be mandatory, but I think it's fairly clear what would happen if they had. It just removes any arguments about whether anyone was acting improperly or not.

This would just enable bad faith delaying tactics from the employer (government) as we have seen in this dispute: eg by making an “offer” with zero negotiation (the first ASLEF offer), or inserting clauses that will never be accepted (the RMT offer including blanket DOO).

Minimum of 14 days' notice so assuming nothing is announced today then earliest 29th June. Too late to affect Glastonbury but other major events may well be targeted.

To be fair there’s been little evidence of either union “targeting” events thus far. If anything they have deliberately left major events alone. Of course there will be something the Daily Mail can jump on virtually every weekend to suggest has been targeted by the evil unions!

Thanks for that, i just thought that the union might give it a week or two to allow a response from the government but get the feeling I'm being rather silly expecting anything positive from them!

ASLEF has indicated a willingness to continue talks - potentially a window for that now that the latest strike dates have finished.

Lets face it, the one day here and one day there is having little effect other than to lose their members money, and every day's pay lost by a driver equates needing a further 0.35% pay increase to get that money back.

The Ts and Cs are much more of a concern. In terms of “what next”, simply keep going is the predominant feeling, as underpinned by this latest ballot. Worse case scenario is continuing right up until the election but, even if that happens, we are likely already closer to the end than the beginning, assuming it’s called early autumn as some have predicted.

especially those who have grown to become dependant on overtime over the past few years. I know there are drivers at my TOC who openly gloat that they have earned six figures in the past, so to be on flat money must be a hell of a hit for some.

Those who are reliant on overtime to that extent will be outnumbered almost everywhere by those who do little to no overtime and would actually prefer an overtime ban to strike action!
 

northwichcat

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I note two separate ballots for LNER there with agreements and pay separately, but all the others only have one ballot. Is there a separate dispute over agreements at LNER that isn't the case at the other TOCs?

No mention of any ballot for Northern drivers though?

I want to know who the one person was that was hacked off enough with the agreements dispute that they voted to strike but wasn't willing to strike over the pay dispute and what their reasoning was! :lol:

I don't see what's strange about a driver thinking that pay deal is good enough for me but not wanting to agree to changes to their employment T&Cs.
 

tomoufc

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So what next? Do they really step up the action and if they do will anyone take any notice?
Lets face it, the one day here and one day there is having little effect other than to lose their members money, and every day's pay lost by a driver equates needing a further 0.35% pay increase to get that money back.
Do they just remain in dispute and not call any further action as nobody believes the current government is going to give them any extra?

Action short of a strike is difficult when at the same time rest day working agreements are being extended, and on some operators ASOS has little of no effect anyway, other than to lose members more money, especially those who have grown to become dependant on overtime over the past few years. I know there are drivers at my TOC who openly gloat that they have earned six figures in the past, so to be on flat money must be a hell of a hit for some.

I just don't see a way out of this, realistically nothing more than 4 or 5% is going to be offered is it? Even as a flat figure without "attacking" the T's and C's.
Don't forget that pay rises generally aren't one off, so compound. That 0.35% increased is 'baked in' to all future wage settlements. That's way companies are so keen on one-off 'cost of living payments'.
 

DarloRich

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PS - it is maddening that this dispute has not been settled. It should not have been allowed by all parties to rumble on this long.
 

ainsworth74

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No mention of any ballot for Northern drivers though?
Their first ballot went wrong so it took longer for them to join the dispute so I presume they'll also need to reballoted later as well.
I don't see what's strange about a driver thinking that pay deal is good enough for me but not wanting to agree to changes to their employment T&Cs.
True true! It just amused me that it seems that there was clearly one person of that thought.
 

Stretch1987

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So what next? Do they really step up the action and if they do will anyone take any notice?
Lets face it, the one day here and one day there is having little effect other than to lose their members money, and every day's pay lost by a driver equates needing a further 0.35% pay increase to get that money back.
Do they just remain in dispute and not call any further action as nobody believes the current government is going to give them any extra?

Action short of a strike is difficult when at the same time rest day working agreements are being extended, and on some operators ASOS has little of no effect anyway, other than to lose members more money, especially those who have grown to become dependant on overtime over the past few years. I know there are drivers at my TOC who openly gloat that they have earned six figures in the past, so to be on flat money must be a hell of a hit for some.

I just don't see a way out of this, realistically nothing more than 4 or 5% is going to be offered is it? Even as a flat figure without "attacking" the T's and C's.
Let's face it if they had offered the 5% + 4% with no butchering of T's and C's this would be over now, the RDG couldn't even be bothered to match what they'd offered to the RMT.
 

12LDA28C

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To be fair there’s been little evidence of either union “targeting” events thus far. If anything they have deliberately left major events alone. Of course there will be something the Daily Mail can jump on virtually every weekend to suggest has been targeted by the evil unions!

Apart from Cheltenham Gold Cup week and the FA Cup Final?

To be clear I'm not saying major events shouldn't be targeted.
 

tomoufc

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Apart from Cheltenham Gold Cup week and the FA Cup Final?

To be clear I'm not saying major events shouldn't be targeted.
I would prefer that they were especially targeted if it were to mean a swifter end to the dispute.
 

Silverlinky

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Let's face it if they had offered the 5% + 4% with no butchering of T's and C's this would be over now, the RDG couldn't even be bothered to match what they'd offered to the RMT.
But Scotrail turned down a flat 5% pay increase with no change to t's and c's despite ASLEF recommendation to accept.
Upon that result ASLEF immediately came back with the "wanting fair pay" line.
Who is able to define what might or might not be acceptable at this stage?
 
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