CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[FrodshamJnct]

Various contractual issues between different parties. But its not something that anyone who knows more details will be at liberty to share on a public forum.

In the future maybe an FOI request may be the only way anyone finds out anything. Potentially could show something

Someone’s done one and thought I saw it on here, but it may have been Facebook. It didn’t really give much away.

Edit - found it:

Response 86 23.pdf

www.whatdotheyknow.com

Although the number of new class 197 units entering into passenger service has not increased
recently the manufacturer (CAF) has continued to deliver new class 197 units to Transport for Wales
Rail (TfWRL). These additional units are initially being utilised by TfWRL to support their driver
training programme, without which TfWRL would not have enough drivers to support an extension
of the routes operated by these new class 197 units. TfWRL had expected their driver training
programme to be more advanced but earlier delays in the production programme have had a
consequential delay in this activity. However, as the driver training programme progresses it will be
possible to release more of the new class 197 units for passenger services and TfWRL will issue
updates in due course.
There are no issues of manufacturing defects which are preventing the delivery and entry into
service of new trains and neither is the continued maintenance of the existing class 175
units. TfWRL’s transition plans have always included a period of time when the existing class 175
and new class 197 units would both be in operation. This wil continue until such time as sufficient
new class 197 units have been delivered to enable the class 175 units to start to be withdrawn from
service.
We hope this information is of use to you.

Yours sincerely,

Transport for Wales

 

[Dan G]

Thank you. So it's just driver training not turning out certified drivers fast enough.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Someone’s done one and thought I saw it on here, but it may have been Facebook. It didn’t really give much away.

Edit - found it:

Response 86 23.pdf

www.whatdotheyknow.com

That's actually a very nothing statement, asking for more would likely return something about commercial sensitivity, I asked about the spending of taxpayers money with AirTanker a few years ago and got told nothing as it was commercially sensitive, which makes zero sense when it's taxpayers money

 

[sd0733]

Thank you. So it's just driver training not turning out certified drivers fast enough.

Maybe it was then but driver training doesn't stop units being accepted, just put into service!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2023 ==

Looks likely that an additional diagram will be introduced tomorrow. On top of the 1st one, should be 3 different units heading to Cardiff.

Planned to be:
4-car 197
08:20 Chester to Cardiff Central
13:22 Cardiff Central to Holyhead

2-car 197
08:05 Holyhead to Cardiff Central
15:23 Cardiff Central to Holyhead.

Booked 197011 and 197018 on the 0820 from Chester and 197009 on the 08:05 from Holyhead

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks! I'm still toying with the options I have to get them in, all 3 are winners so that doesn't make it any easier

I definitely want to do one to Cardiff, but I might have to do things slightly differently. A decision for the morning, but I certainly appreciate the gen

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Well... 1052 should be Mk4 is showing as 197004 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W26597/2023-06-12/detailed#allox_id=0

No comment on whether that would be an improvement or not.

Of course it cannot be 197004 and a more unsuitable unit will no doubt be found.

Someone's found a 197 on a Cardiff -> Manchester (And then it goes back to Cardiff)
Let's see if it actually happens.

 

[anthony263]

Maybe it was then but driver training doesn't stop units being accepted, just put into service!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2023 ==


Booked 197011 and 197018 on the 0820 from Chester and 197009 on the 08:05 from Holyhead

0624 from Holyhead. Let's hope all.gors to plan

 

[sd0733]

Someone's found a 197 on a Cardiff -> Manchester (And then it goes back to Cardiff)
Let's see if it actually happens.

It won't Happen as they aren't signed off on the route!

 

[Caaardiff]

Someone's found a 197 on a Cardiff -> Manchester (And then it goes back to Cardiff)
Let's see if it actually happens.

Should be booked a mk4 from Holyhead. Covered by a 197 then swapped to a 158 at Chester.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Maybe it was then but driver training doesn't stop units being accepted, just put into service!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2023 ==


Booked 197011 and 197018 on the 0820 from Chester and 197009 on the 08:05 from Holyhead

0820 from Chester has been canned, infuriatingly. Will these things ever make it to the Marches??

 

[Envoy]

It won't Happen as they aren't signed off on the route!

Why aren’t they signed by now for Shrewsbury to Manchester? What happens if Shrewsbury to Chester has something go wrong & they can’t just divert via Crewe?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

0624 from Holyhead. Let's hope all.gors to plan

A 158 from Chester. Almost a joke at this point.

 

[Anonymous10]

It won't Happen as they aren't signed off on the route!

And it's being terminated at Shrewsbury on it'd south bound working

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why aren’t they signed by now for Shrewsbury to Manchester? What happens if Shrewsbury to Chester has something go wrong & they can’t just divert via Crewe?

They can’t even manage to get Shrewsbury to Chester the traditional way yet, it seems! Every 197 destined for south of Chester (no smartie pantses bringing up Crewe, please) ends up swapped.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

They can’t even manage to get Shrewsbury to Chester the traditional way yet, it seems! Every 197 destined for south of Chester (no smartie pantses bringing up Crewe, please) ends up swapped.

If I remember rightly one does visit Shrewsbury each night on a late diagram that interworks with a Manchester diagram.

 

[sd0733]

They can’t even manage to get Shrewsbury to Chester the traditional way yet, it seems! Every 197 destined for south of Chester (no smartie pantses bringing up Crewe, please) ends up swapped.

They have been that way for several weeks.
3 are booked to Cardiff today too.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

They have been that way for several weeks.
3 are booked to Cardiff today too.

1V92 158 from Chester onwards its currently showing, and only 011 alone for the Holyhead portion.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If I remember rightly one does visit Shrewsbury each night on a late diagram that interworks with a Manchester diagram.

Oh yes, 2232 Chester to Shrewsbury and return is often a 197, but I’m sure you understood what I meant. They have issues trying to get the trains to the routes they’re meant to be booked on now, so the importance of sorting them out on diversion routes is far less great right now.

 

[Envoy]

RTT is still showing the 8.05 Holyhead to Cardiff as a 2 car 197 with the 15.23 from Cardiff to Holyhead being the return working. Is that still the case or not?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

RTT is still showing the 8.05 Holyhead to Cardiff as a 2 car 197 with the 15.23 from Cardiff to Holyhead being the return working. Is that still the case or not?

I privately messaged TfW to answer - not a great use of their time I know, but then it’s hardly convenient to ferry customers from one train to another either - and was told they’re not aware of any plans for a set swap. Admittedly I doubt they’d be who’d know.

 

[sd0733]

RTT is still showing the 8.05 Holyhead to Cardiff as a 2 car 197 with the 15.23 from Cardiff to Holyhead being the return working. Is that still the case or not?

They're all meant to be. Floorwalkers are in place and everything in place to go through so not sure why its been swapped

 

[Envoy]

Keep us updated anyone in the know!

 

[sd0733]

1V92 158 from Chester onwards its currently showing, and only 011 alone for the Holyhead portion.

It is supposed to be 2 car from Holyhead then attach at Chester.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It is supposed to be 2 car from Holyhead then attach at Chester.

Hmm interesting. It hasn't left Chester yet so maybe the allocation is erroneous. I'll see when it passes me in under 2 hours.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

EDIT : It looks like it's swapping with the 158 from 1W90 0726 Shrewsbury to Holyhead.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197009 has left Holyhead and still no allocation showing for a replacement unit from Chester, so let’s hope and pray it makes it to Cardiff. I’m personally very skeptical. I reckon it’ll be swapped, but I’ll willingly eat my words.

 

[Techniquest]

Disappointed that the 0820 has not produced its 197s, for me that's just as well as I didn't wake up properly until 0845!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197009 has left Holyhead and still no allocation showing for a replacement unit from Chester, so let’s hope and pray it makes it to Cardiff. I’m personally very skeptical. I reckon it’ll be swapped, but I’ll willingly eat my words.

RTT isn't updating to say the unit has made it to Valley, although it should currently be about to leave Bangor. I hope there are no issues. We don't need any excuses for a sprinter to take over.

 

[Western 52]

RTT isn't updating to say the unit has made it to Valley, although it should currently be about to leave Bangor. I hope there are no issues. We don't need any excuses for a sprinter to take over.

NR app says delayed by tresspassers.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

NR app says delayed by tresspassers.

Great, so thanks to those geniuses, the only 197 which had a chance of going to Cardiff today will now arrive at Chester very late, so they'll no doubt throw out a 150 or 158 to run Chester - Cardiff on time, with the current passengers on the 197 told to get the next.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

EDIT: Now says 197009 will indeed finish at Chester, but interestingly enough suggesting 197019 will do Chester Cardiff, meaning if true, TfW will still get a 197 down to Cardiff in service today. The planners must be as keen for this milestone to happen somehow as we are

 

[Dai Corner]

Great, so thanks to those geniuses, the only 197 which had a chance of going to Cardiff today will now arrive at Chester very late, so they'll no doubt throw out a 150 or 158 to run Chester - Cardiff on time, with the current passengers on the 197 told to get the next.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

EDIT: Now says 197009 will indeed finish at Chester, but interestingly enough suggesting 197019 will do Chester Cardiff, meaning if true, TfW will still get a 197 down to Cardiff in service today. The planners must be as keen for this milestone to happen somehow as we are

Cranks in Control today, and/or there's a photo opportunity for the bigwigs in Cardiff.