Could we see freight on the Cambrian Coast line?

[SuspectUsual]

There is also all the sites on the industrial site. It makes you wonder if it would work as its a long way to the distribution depots and how many lorries make the trip each day carrying part loads.

So, from the perspective of one retailer....

The Coop deliver to approximately 4,000 stores across the UK, have over a thousand suppliers, over 20,000 different products, and a network of a dozen depots. Their supply chain is very complex, and also (for fresh food) operates on a just in time basis - stock is ordered from suppliers at breakfast time on day 1, is delivered to depots by mid-morning on day 2, and the first despatches are at 2pm on day 2. It has to be like that because the shortest life product only has 4 days life into depot - delaying moving that stock on just causes a massive wastage issue

Any delay causes issues, but inevitably they occur. What this means for fresh is that a delay to the end of intake delays the start of picking, which then puts despatch times at risk. If those deliveries are on the in-house fleet, it gives a degree of ability to roll with the punches and maintain a level of service. When the despatch time is cast in stone, that cannot happen, and it means stores going without stock. That's what happens for the stores where despatch times are dictated by ferry schedules, and adding a rail leg would basically do the same.

If you go to a Coop on one of the Scottish islands you'll see this a lot - the depot in Scotland is most at risk of late deliveries because on average its further from the suppliers' sites (so compressed timings plus more road miles where accidents etc can happen) and those stores are governed by ferry schedules

More generally, distribution networks operate most effectively when there's a single way of working.

Oh, and you haven't explained how your fantasy goods train is going to handle refrigerated and frozen food

 

[The Planner]

Gloster it would be ideal to put in a short line to the industrial estate with sidings there. At the present the log train uses the station area to load with HGV movements in and out of the town center a siding at the industrial estate would take the HGV's out of the town. This also could be used by a mixed goods train. Then an EV local lorry could deliver to the various stores in the area. If stores could be persuaded to use shared wagons ( 3 or 4 might fill a single wagon) if they cannot fill one. Potential sites in Aberystwyth are The pubs, Marks and Spencer, Tesco, Lidl, pets at home, home bargains, next, Morrisons, B&M store, Iceland, and Halfords.

Its all absolute small fry, and the cost of the new line would be millions you would never recoup. You would be better off as I said before just making all the delivery vehicles electric.

 

[richard_S]

So, from the perspective of one retailer....

The Coop deliver to approximately 4,000 stores across the UK, have over a thousand suppliers, over 20,000 different products, and a network of a dozen depots. Their supply chain is very complex, and also (for fresh food) operates on a just in time basis - stock is ordered from suppliers at breakfast time on day 1, is delivered to depots by mid-morning on day 2, and the first despatches are at 2pm on day 2. It has to be like that because the shortest life product only has 4 days life into depot - delaying moving that stock on just causes a massive wastage issue

Any delay causes issues, but inevitably they occur. What this means for fresh is that a delay to the end of intake delays the start of picking, which then puts despatch times at risk. If those deliveries are on the in-house fleet, it gives a degree of ability to roll with the punches and maintain a level of service. When the despatch time is cast in stone, that cannot happen, and it means stores going without stock. That's what happens for the stores where despatch times are dictated by ferry schedules, and adding a rail leg would basically do the same.

If you go to a Coop on one of the Scottish islands you'll see this a lot - the depot in Scotland is most at risk of late deliveries because on average its further from the suppliers' sites (so compressed timings plus more road miles where accidents etc can happen) and those stores are governed by ferry schedules

More generally, distribution networks operate most effectively when there's a single way of working.

Oh, and you haven't explained how your fantasy goods train is going to handle refrigerated and frozen food

You could use closed vans with a chiller or freezer fitted.

 

[zwk500]

You could use closed vans with a chiller or freezer fitted.

That's not a standard wagon then - and as containers won't fit down the Cambrian for Reefers, you'd need specially constructed W6 compatible chiller wagons. The economics of this were always hopeless, but now they're just ludicrous.

 

[SuspectUsual]

That's not a standard wagon then - and as containers won't fit down the Cambrian for Reefers, you'd need specially constructed W6 compatible chiller wagons. The economics of this were always hopeless, but now they're just ludicrous.

And the cost of the ongoing certification so adherence to the cool chain can be demonstrated

 

[richard_S]

Its all absolute small fry, and the cost of the new line would be millions you would never recoup. You would be better off as I said before just making all the delivery vehicles electric.

You would need about 1.25Km of line and a run round loop.

 

[SuspectUsual]

You could use closed vans with a chiller or freezer fitted.

You’re also massively increasing the risk of supply chain failure - best case there’d be three sets of vans to cope with the timings. What happens when one is out of service?

With a fleet of pretty standard LGVs it’s almost always easy to hire in more fleet if necessary

 

[The Planner]

You would need about 1.25Km of line and a run round loop.

And changes to the signalling etc. It would be multiple millions. What are you trying to achieve? Removing lorries full stop or just the pollution aspect? I will keep reiterating, for the same cost you could likely buy a fleet of electric delivery vehicles.

 

[richard_S]

And changes to the signalling etc. It would be multiple millions. What are you trying to achieve? Removing lorries full stop or just the pollution aspect? I will keep reiterating, for the same cost you could likely buy a fleet of electric delivery vehicles.

Removing the greater distance that lorries run and using them for the last mile.

 

[Llanigraham]

I do wonder whether @richard_S actually lives in the area of the Cambrian and understands it's geography.

WELSHPOOL
Tesco by the station, and a small Morrisonsbut no other chain supermarket, lots of independent retailers.
However the rail line is constrained by the by-pass and an industrial estate.

NEWTOWN
Tesco, Morrisons, Lidl, Aldi (all small) and again lots of independent retailers.
Rail line constrained by housing and listed buildings.

MACHYNLLETH
Co-op and lots of independent retailers
Rail line on the outskirts of the town, partly on an embankment and constrained by the Rail Depot.

ABERYSTWYTH
The only town with a larger number of chain stores but the rail line is constrained by the VoR and various government/office buildings. The main "trading estate" isn't anywhere near the main line, but on VoR's line.

And the few towns within 10 miles of the Cambrian are all even smaller and have even fewer shops. I know, I live in one!

Quite frankly this thread would be better in the "Speculation" section as has been siad by several others the proposals are ludicrous.

 

[Bald Rick]

Gloster it would be ideal to put in a short line to the industrial estate with sidings there. At the present the log train uses the station area to load with HGV movements in and out of the town center a siding at the industrial estate would take the HGV's out of the town. This also could be used by a mixed goods train. Then an EV local lorry could deliver to the various stores in the area. If stores could be persuaded to use shared wagons ( 3 or 4 might fill a single wagon) if they cannot fill one. Potential sites in Aberystwyth are The pubs, Marks and Spencer, Tesco, Lidl, pets at home, home bargains, next, Morrisons, B&M store, Iceland, and Halfords.

Where are these freight trains coming from? In your answer, bear in mind each of the supermarkets (and pubs!) will have different distribution networks.

You could use closed vans with a chiller or freezer fitted.

What is powering those?

 

[randyrippley]

Simple solution to all this
Use freight single car DMUs tagged onto the back of the passenger sets. At each station the rear unit is dropped off for unloading, and the caged goods are wheeled off and pushed into an EV lorry to take to the shop. The empty units can then either be picked up by the next returning passenger train, or if there's no crossover simply attached to the next train and carried to the terminus and then returned.
Good use for the remaining 153/155 fleet: with their sectional build it should be easy to insert a couple of drop down ramp doors on each side. Should be possible to wheel everything out of a unit in around 15 minutes by the lorry driver and his mate.
As for the lorry itself, something like an electric version of the old mechanical horses would work.


This is the speculative board isn't it?

 

[43096]

Simple solution to all this
Use freight single car DMUs tagged onto the back of the passenger sets. At each station the rear unit is dropped off for unloading, and the caged goods are wheeled off and pushed into an EV lorry to take to the shop. The empty units can then either be picked up by the next returning passenger train, or if there's no crossover simply attached to the next train and carried to the terminus and then returned.
Good use for the remaining 153/155 fleet: with their sectional build it should be easy to insert a couple of drop down ramp doors on each side. Should be possible to wheel everything out of a unit in around 15 minutes by the lorry driver and his mate.
As for the lorry itself, something like an electric version of the old mechanical horses would work.


This is the speculative board isn't it?

How are you coupling your freight 153s to the 197s?

 

[randyrippley]

How are you coupling your freight 153s to the 197s?

Simple enough to fit new Delners
Or you could use a GUV as a translator coach. Even more space!