Bus Seats — When Did They Change?

[Dr_Paul]

Looking at some pictures of old London Transport buses, it occurred to me that at some point the old style of seat, with a single cushion and back for two people (or three or more for bench seats), was replaced by the individual seats we now have on all London buses, one for each passenger. Three questions come my mind.

1. When did this happen?
2. Why did this happen; what was wrong with the old-style seats?
3. Has this also been the case outwith London?

 

[overthewater]

I would say it started to change around 1999, I do miss the old bench seating.

 

[JonathanH]

Probably a little earlier than 1999 although not with all operators.

Reading Buses specified individual seats in their 1988 Olympians.

Even in London, the 1992 conversion of the Leyland Nationals to Greenway specification came with individual seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Manchester (as I was at the time) it was late 90s. Early low floor buses had bench seats, a few later high floor ones had individual ones, but the change was mostly alongside the high to low floor change.

 

[JonathanH]

Three questions come my mind.

1. When did this happen?
2. Why did this happen; what was wrong with the old-style seats?
3. Has this also been the case outwith London?

One reason is that it is easier to replace individual seats than a pair.

Tubular frame seats are also fairly easy to vandalise, as they can be forced forward with foot pressure.

I remember a few Badgerline Darts in Bath in the late 1990s which had tubular frame seats that were very uncomfortable to sit in as the backs had been forced forward.

I think individual seats were seen as an enhancement to vehicle interiors.

 

[MotCO]

In Manchester (as I was at the time) it was late 90s. Early low floor buses had bench seats, a few later high floor ones had individual ones, but the change was mostly alongside the high to low floor change.

For London, it may have been around privatsation, and the ability to buy non-London spec buses. For example, the Titans and Metrobuses had bench seats, but after that, some of the Olympians ordered by the new companies had individual plastic/material seats.

I also think that the low floor buses may have been heavier, and the plastic seats may have been lighter.

 

[Andyh82]

Depends on the operator, the earliest I was aware of was around 1993 but it was probably around 2000 before the new style seats dominated

For example the mid 1990s Alexander Striders - West Riding Group and Blazefield examples had single seats, Yorkshire Rider ones had bench seats. Badgerline Group spec was bench seats as well.

Early low floors in the later 1990s - FirstBus went with single seats, Arriva had bench seats, I believe even early ALX400s with Stagecoach had bench seats

 

[DunsBus]

I remember Lothian Region Transport trying out individual seats in several of their 1988 Olympians. These would have been standard from the next batch onwards had the seats' manufacturer, Promar, not gone bust. Ten Olympians delivered in 1996 also had individual seats, the first five having maroon vinyl seat covers and the rest having grey moquette seat covers, but it wasn't until 1999 that they became standard on Lothian buses.

 

[ChrisPJ]

Lothians very earliest Tridents had bench seats but later batches went to the double individual type, this also meant the bench seats at back of bus and in some other places could be identical so easier for spare parts stockholding, they also take up less room in store and quicker to re trim.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lothians very earliest Tridents had bench seats but later batches went to the double individual type, this also meant the bench seats at back of bus and in some other places could be identical so easier for spare parts stockholding, they also take up less room in store and quicker to re trim.

Though most buses I've been on recently have had different shaped cushions on the back row, though I guess there is the option of replacing/retrimming only one of the five rather than a whole bench.

 

[DunsBus]

Lothians very earliest Tridents had bench seats but later batches went to the double individual type, this also meant the bench seats at back of bus and in some other places could be identical so easier for spare parts stockholding, they also take up less room in store and quicker to re trim.

501-515 had bench seats IIRC, the switch to double individual seats coming in from 516 onwards. 515 later had these seats retrofitted.

 

[Simon75]

The New route masters have bench seats.
Crosville had 'dual purpose (DP) ' Leyland Nationals with coach seats late 80s
PMT had DP Olympians in 1989

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Greater Manchester Transport first dabbled with individual coach style seats in buses during 1985/6 when the Airport Express service was changed to double-deck operation, two Olympians gaining such seats and all-over ad schemes for SAS and Singapore Airlines. Two other Olympians were also reseated for the same service. This soon led to an expansion of express services leading to no less than 69 'deckers (Metrobuses and Olympians) being delivered in the second half of 1986 with very comfortable coach-like seats. In fact they more closely resembled traditional airliner seats and I found it quite easy to doze in them!

 

[GusB]

The earliest buses that I recall having individual seats were the L-KSA batch of Mercedes O.405s that were delivered to Grampian Transport in 1993. Everything I had experienced prior to that had the standard bench seats.

 

[spuddie]

First time I saw individual seats was the K reg Spectra's that London Buses had, looked very different and modern at the time.

The first vehicles we had with individual seats at Sovereign were M reg Volvo B10B's, nice comfy padded ones too. The N reg ones were also individual but less padding and not so comfy, but then the P reg one we bought was back to bench seats. The P and R reg Volvo B6LE's we had were bench seats too but after that everything individual.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Dublin Bus stuck with bench seats long after all other major companies in the British Isles had switched over to individual seats, which gives us the odd sight of a modern-looking Enviro 400 or Wright Eclipse Gemini furnished with old-fashioned bench seats

Looking on Flickr it appears the company finally switched over to individual seats around the start of the 2010s.

 

[A0]

The earliest buses that I recall having individual seats were the L-KSA batch of Mercedes O.405s that were delivered to Grampian Transport in 1993. Everything I had experienced prior to that had the standard bench seats.

I'll predate that - pretty much anything Optare seemed to have individual seats from the late 80s / early 90s - so City Pacers, Star riders, Delta, Spectra, Vecta - first Deltas appeared on E or F plates.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I'll predate that - pretty much anything Optare seemed to have individual seats from the late 80s / early 90s - so City Pacers, Star riders, Delta, Spectra, Vecta - first Deltas appeared on E or F plates.

From memory, the individual seats on Reading Buses' Deltas were so hard to come by in the early 2000s that the company had to reseat one or two of the G-reg batch with seats from withdrawn Metrobuses/Titans just so they could have a pool of spares.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I'll predate that - pretty much anything Optare seemed to have individual seats from the late 80s / early 90s - so City Pacers, Star riders, Delta, Spectra, Vecta - first Deltas appeared on E or F plates.

There were definitely still Opatre Metroriders (mid-late 90s) with bench seats. I could be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure I've seen early examples of the Optare Solo for sale with bench seats too.

 

[Citistar]

There were definitely still Opatre Metroriders (mid-late 90s) with bench seats. I could be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure I've seen early examples of the Optare Solo for sale with bench seats too.

There were early Solos with bench seats, i think it was a cost saving option rather than standard (which were the excellent Richards & Shaw Harmony seats). The pair that Eurotaxis had for the 695 Bristol - Portishead service circa 2004-5 had benches, which i think were 51 plates.

 

[JD2168]

The oldest bus in South Yorkshire that had individual seats was Dominator NKU200X at new but these were replaced by bench seats after a while. Otherwise the only other ones with individual seats at this time were the FastLine Dominators on D-OWE plates & the C reg FastLine MCW Metrobuses & the high backed seated Leyland DAB articulated buses.
After this it would be the N-CKY reg Volvo B10M’s with all afterwords having individual seats.

 

[JonathanH]

From memory, the individual seats on Reading Buses' Deltas were so hard to come by in the early 2000s that the company had to reseat one or two of the G-reg batch with seats from withdrawn Metrobuses/Titans just so they could have a pool of spares.

Those seats in the G-XBL Deltas were not great. They had a grey flat cloth seemingly applied to a board with some foam underneath. 508 was eventually reupholstered with moquette and had a few seats removed in the lower section. The later Optare vehicles had better individual seats.

The E-DRD Olympians also had their individual seats ultimately replaced by bench seats in their latter days.

 

[Statto]

Merseyside PTE had bench style seats on most of the fleet, however a small batch of 10xx Atlanteans & 0069 to 0081 batch of Volvo Ailsas bought in 1984 were fitted with individual seats. The PTE's successor, MTL, started fitting vehicles with individual seats from early to mid 90s, but did keep fitting new buses with bench seats as well.

 

[Redmike]

Here in Manchester, Stagecoach were definitely later to adopt individual seats with over a hundred MAN ALX300 buses delivered with bench seats and a batch of Tridents (V reg) including a batch transferred from Busways also having bench seats.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The earliest buses that I recall having individual seats were the L-KSA batch of Mercedes O.405s that were delivered to Grampian Transport in 1993. Everything I had experienced prior to that had the standard bench seats.

“Dual purpose” seating was individual high-backed seats rather than a bench seat, and those seats were on NBC Bristol VRs and Leyland Olympians way back in the early 80s. The earliest ones I remember are the Gold Rider branded “dual purpose” Olympians that Yorkshire Rider had in the late 80s/early 90s when I first moved to the UK, but the buses themselves were older than my memory. Those and the “dual purpose” buses West Riding and Yorkshire Traction used on the X33 Bradford-Sheffield.

In routine use, I don’t remember individual seats until First brought the B10BLE Renowns to Bradford.

 

[Strathclyder]

First Glasgow inherited a lot of bench-seated stock from Strathclyde/Kelvin of course, but I can't recall if they ordered any themselves after the takeover. Some early Wright-bodied saloons are ringing distant bells here, but I can't say with confidence one way or the other. What I can say with a bit more confidence is that the last bench-seated bus they operated (PS-bodied B10M 61497) was withdrawn in May 2013.

Early low floors in the later 1990s - FirstBus went with single seats, Arriva had bench seats, I believe even early ALX400s with Stagecoach had bench seats

The S-BWC ALX400 Tridents for Stagecoach London certainly had bench seating throughout as new; S801 BWC retains them in preservation.

 

[CSB0241]

Looking at some pictures of old London Transport buses, it occurred to me that at some point the old style of seat, with a single cushion and back for two people (or three or more for bench seats), was replaced by the individual seats we now have on all London buses, one for each passenger. Three questions come my mind.

1. When did this happen?
2. Why did this happen; what was wrong with the old-style seats?
3. Has this also been the case outwith London?

1. I’m not entirely sure honestly, I’m guessing over the past 25 years.
2. Again, I can’t really tell you. 30/50 Lothian Buses (Edinburgh’s Main Operator) Volvo 7900s & all Volvo Evora’s & E400EVs use these for the seats next to (& behind in the case of the Evoras & E400EVs) the driver, & all of the 7900s use these types of seats by the buggy/wheelchair rack behind the engine
3. With Lothian, the only vehicles on their fleet (as far as I’m aware) to still do this are the ones I listed above.

 

[m79900]

It seems odd to me that no-one's mentioned the NB4Ls, which still have bench seating.

 

[jammy36]

It seems odd to me that no-one's mentioned the NB4Ls, which still have bench seating.

@Simon75 has in post #12 above.

 

[DunsBus]

The earliest buses that I recall having individual seats were the L-KSA batch of Mercedes O.405s that were delivered to Grampian Transport in 1993. Everything I had experienced prior to that had the standard bench seats.

Individual seats were a feature of most GRT Bus Group deliveries around that time. I say "most" as there were some which didn't have them - the ten Prismas new to SMT in 1995 and a batch of Darts new to Grampian the following year.