Loading gauge - Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli

[richard_S]

Does anyone know the loading gauge on the line from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli? From what I can tell is it changes at Newtown or Machynlleth I think it gets tighter from either of these 2 towns. I have not been able to find out if/where the gauge changes. I do know that timber trains can run to Aberystwyth.

Richard

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[Gloster]

Two thoughts.

Firstly, are you sure it is the loading gauge, rather than the axle weight, that is decisive factor here? Parts of the Cambrian Railway were very lightly built.

Secondly, I believe that LNWR locos used to run as far as Welshpool, although not normally beyond. Is it possible that, if the LNWR had a larger loading gauge than the Cambrian, the line as far as Welshpool was enlarged or built to this standard, but the line beyond was not.

 

[richard_S]

Thanks for that Gloster. I had not thought of axle weight. Its a shame they did not run to Newtown or Machynlleth As they are ideally sited to provide a rail freight terminal for mixed goods containers. There is no railfreight in mid Wales and it would take many lorries of the roads.

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[Bill57p9]

Regarding axle weight, I have a vague memory that the Route Availability is 5 on the Cambrian itself.

 

[zwk500]

Does anyone know the loading gauge on the line from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli? From what I can tell is it changes at Newtown or Machynlleth I think it gets tighter from either of these 2 towns. I have not been able to find out if/where the gauge changes. I do know that timber trains can run to Aberystwyth.

From Shrewsbury to Sutton Bridge Jn it's RA8, from Sutton Bridge Jn to Welshpool it's RA7, from Welshpool to both Termini is RA5.
Shrewsbury to Sutton Bridge Jn is W7, from Sutton Bridge Jn to Aberystwyth it's W6A, from Dovey Junction to Pwllheli, it's W6A but with restrictions on certain stock.

The loading gauge should be in Table D of the sectional appendix available on the Network Rail website.

 

[richard_S]

ZWK500 do you have a link to table D?

 

[zwk500]

ZWK500 do you have a link to table D?

National Electronic Sectional Appendix - Network Rail

The National Electronic Sectional Appendix contains detailed information useful to operators about network capability, as well as other data.

www.networkrail.co.uk

Not directly, but if you go to the above link and scroll down to the regional PDFs they are freely available for download. You will then need to scroll through to find table D. Wales is part of the Western region Sectional Appendix.

May I ask what your interest is in the loading gauge tables?

 

[Snow1964]

From Shrewsbury to Sutton Bridge Jn it's RA8, from Sutton Bridge Jn to Welshpool it's RA7, from Welshpool to both Termini is RA5.
Shrewsbury to Sutton Bridge Jn is W7, from Sutton Bridge Jn to Aberystwyth it's W6A, from Dovey Junction to Pwllheli, it's W6A but with restrictions on certain stock.

The loading gauge should be in Table D of the sectional appendix available on the Network Rail website.

I always thought W6A is third rail modified version of W6
clearly I got that wrong as no third rail on Cambrian

For 2 axle wagons
RA5 is 35.5-38.1t
RA6 is 38.1-40.6t
RA7 is 40.6-43.1t
RA7 is 43.1-45.7t

For 4 axle wagons
RA5 is 71.1-76.2t
RA6 is 76.2-81.2t
RA7 is 81.2-86.3t
RA8 is 86.3-91.4t

 

[zwk500]

I always thought W6A is third rail modified version of W6
clearly I got that wrong as no third rail on Cambrian

It may well be, I don't have the standards to hand and the website I've used to check the info doesn't distinguish between W6 and W6a in some places.

 

[richard_S]

After many emails I just get we have spent millions on the line! But that is spent on maintenance work with no improvements to the line. The line is in dire need of existing extended passing loops and the insertion of more. What would help is the doubling of the line between Machynlleth and Dovey junction. Doubling the line from Sutton bridge junction to Welshpool. Reopening of Carno station with the extension of the passing loop at Talerddig to the East of Carno station. The passing loop at Tywyn could be extended to the far side of Aberdovey. It could be also possible to extend it further to Morfa Mawddach Barmouth bridge end. Porthmadog to the other side of Criccieth where the second platform is still there. Both the Newtown and Welshpool passing loops could be extended towards each other this would help recovery times.

 

[The Planner]

After many emails I just get we have spent millions on the line! But that is spent on maintenance work with no improvements to the line. The line is in dire need of existing extended passing loops and the insertion of more. What would help is the doubling of the line between Machynlleth and Dovey junction. Doubling the line from Sutton bridge junction to Welshpool. Reopening of Carno station with the extension of the passing loop at Talerddig to the East of Carno station. The passing loop at Tywyn could be extended to the far side of Aberdovey. It could be also possible to extend it further to Morfa Mawddach Barmouth bridge end. Porthmadog to the other side of Criccieth where the second platform is still there. Both the Newtown and Welshpool passing loops could be extended towards each other this would help recovery times.

What would all this be for though? More trains as its an incredibly expensive way of reducing delays? What is there enables the hourly service and thats all it was put in for.

 

[Llanigraham]

After many emails I just get we have spent millions on the line! But that is spent on maintenance work with no improvements to the line. The line is in dire need of existing extended passing loops and the insertion of more. What would help is the doubling of the line between Machynlleth and Dovey junction. Doubling the line from Sutton bridge junction to Welshpool. Reopening of Carno station with the extension of the passing loop at Talerddig to the East of Carno station. The passing loop at Tywyn could be extended to the far side of Aberdovey. It could be also possible to extend it further to Morfa Mawddach Barmouth bridge end. Porthmadog to the other side of Criccieth where the second platform is still there. Both the Newtown and Welshpool passing loops could be extended towards each other this would help recovery times.

And exactly what benefit is those billions of pounds going to give to us in Mid Wales?

 

[SuspectUsual]

After many emails I just get we have spent millions on the line! But that is spent on maintenance work with no improvements to the line. The line is in dire need of existing extended passing loops and the insertion of more. What would help is the doubling of the line between Machynlleth and Dovey junction. Doubling the line from Sutton bridge junction to Welshpool. Reopening of Carno station with the extension of the passing loop at Talerddig to the East of Carno station. The passing loop at Tywyn could be extended to the far side of Aberdovey. It could be also possible to extend it further to Morfa Mawddach Barmouth bridge end. Porthmadog to the other side of Criccieth where the second platform is still there. Both the Newtown and Welshpool passing loops could be extended towards each other this would help recovery times.

Is this intended for the "controversial railway opinions...." thread?!?

 

[Wyrleybart]

What would all this be for though? More trains as its an incredibly expensive way of reducing delays? What is there enables the hourly service and thats all it was put in for.

Exactly. 3 and 4 car trains allow more pax (and light goods) to be carried at no extra crewing costs. From what I understand, a 2 car 197 has less seats than it's predecessor 158, so surely a 3 car 197 should be the absolute base replacement for the 2 car 158 ? The easiest solution to a bankrupt railway administration is to make driver Jones and conductor Evans shift more people during their work shifts ?

 

[Llanigraham]

Exactly. 3 and 4 car trains allow more pax (and light goods) to be carried at no extra crewing costs. From what I understand, a 2 car 197 has less seats than it's predecessor 158, so surely a 3 car 197 should be the absolute base replacement for the 2 car 158 ? The easiest solution to a bankrupt railway administration is to make driver Jones and conductor Evans shift more people during their work shifts ?

What "light goods"?
There is no parcel service on the railway nowadays, and to introduce one would mean staffing all stations so there was someone there to deal with them.
Do you realise that other than Machynlleth and Aberystwyth (not sure about Pwllheli) all the stations are unmanned? Therefore think how many staff members would be required.

And from experience, for much of the day even two car units are not crowded. Weekends, especially if there is something on at the NEC, are the only times where there are crowding problems, and occasionally some services along the coast in the summer. Even term start dates at the Uni now don't fill trains as most students seem to arrive by car, since they have so much luggage.

 

[PeterC]

What "light goods"?
Even term start dates at the Uni now don't fill trains as most students seem to arrive by car, since they have so much luggage.

Do you think there may be a connection?

One if the first things that I did after passing my A levels was to buy a cabin trunk so that my things could be sent by rail.

 

[stuu]

Do you think there may be a connection?

One if the first things that I did after passing my A levels was to buy a cabin trunk so that my things could be sent by rail.

I suspect it would be cheaper to offer to courier people's luggage rather than have the capacity to carry it by train twice a year

 

[zwk500]

Do you think there may be a connection?

One if the first things that I did after passing my A levels was to buy a cabin trunk so that my things could be sent by rail.

You've got it the wrong way round, I'm afraid. The railways no longer offer a parcel service to individuals (bulk couriers use rail for trunk distribution) because the traffic disappeared.

Students nowadays take a full car's worth of stuff to uni, in general. That's an awful lot of manual handling at Aberwystwyth station.

 

[DelW]

After many emails I just get we have spent millions on the line! But that is spent on maintenance work with no improvements to the line. The line is in dire need of existing extended passing loops and the insertion of more. What would help is the doubling of the line between Machynlleth and Dovey junction. Doubling the line from Sutton bridge junction to Welshpool. Reopening of Carno station with the extension of the passing loop at Talerddig to the East of Carno station. The passing loop at Tywyn could be extended to the far side of Aberdovey. It could be also possible to extend it further to Morfa Mawddach Barmouth bridge end. Porthmadog to the other side of Criccieth where the second platform is still there. Both the Newtown and Welshpool passing loops could be extended towards each other this would help recovery times.

I get that this is aspirations not plans, but "The passing loop at Tywyn could be extended (...) further to Morfa Mawddach" is quite a task. That includes the section between Tonfanau and Friog, which is squeezed between the main road and the top of the cliff ... which itself is being nibbled at by the sea. Nothing is impossible but I think it would be very expensive indeed to add another track through there.

 

[Llanigraham]

Do you think there may be a connection?

One if the first things that I did after passing my A levels was to buy a cabin trunk so that my things could be sent by rail.

And how many years ago was that?
The railway didn't offer a service like that when I went to Uni in 1972!

 

[alf]

One if the first things that I did after passing my A levels was to buy a cabin trunk so that my things could be sent by rail.

PLA was a very valuable service provided by the big four railway companies & then BR...with its fleet of cream & dark red 3 wheeled road tractors hauling single axle trailers.

For a fee & providing you had bought a ticket in advance BR collected your trunk from your house, put it on a train at the nearest station & collected it from the destination station & delivered it to your destination.It was called Passenger Luggage in Advance.

North Wales with its private boarding schools & coastal holiday hotels probably kept the railways busy with PLA traffic.

 

[Krokodil]

I suspect it would be cheaper to offer to courier people's luggage rather than have the capacity to carry it by train twice a year

Luggage capacity would be used far more often than that, the units will be working to airports and holiday destinations. TfW's existing units can't cope with the amount of cases they get thrown at them at the moment, 197s halve that capacity.

The railways no longer offer a parcel service to individuals (bulk couriers use rail for trunk distribution) because the traffic disappeared.

That's not quite the whole story, is it though? Mismanagement and the break-up of the railways contributed to the demise of Red Star Parcels. I suspect that a station-to-station parcels service (using the likes of Amazon as anchor tenants with lockers for collection) could be competitive but that is off topic for this thread.