Can I Legally Use A Body Camera?

[43066]

I went to a busy, city-centre Wetherspoons recently and ordinary waiting-on staff were wearing body cameras. I don’t see how this would be any different. Nor do I see how it’s any different to someone having a dash cam or filming on a mobile phone.

The Wetherspoons staff are presumably wearing company issued cameras in the course of their employment. The OP is asking about wearing his own camera when he’s at work - so surely the difference is obvious?

I’d echo what’s been said upthread, it isn’t illegal to wear a privately owned body cam, but is certainly unlikely to he something any employer would tolerate someone doing off their own bat, so to speak, given the potential GDPR issues/vicarious liability.

 

[LucyP]

Wearing your own body cam at work is wearing it in the course of your employment, so it is not a private situation. It is in a public situation, on your employer's "premises" and when you are being controlled by your employer, but you are not wearing your employer's camera or operating their own CCTV, which will be registered. You are wearing and operating your own, which will not be. You would have to register with the ICO and comply with all their rules and display the required notices. You are also going to find the purpose of making the recordings difficult to justify, particularly in circumstances where your employer is likely to have their own cameras anyway.

 

[RogerOut]

Those

The bus would have been covered in cameras recording the incident. I think it’s fair to say the perpetrators don’t care about any of that and a bodycam wouldn’t offer any protection.

No, but it would help identify those perpetrators. Just incase the bus’s cctv doesn’t work. The driver may get a better view with a body cam.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2023 ==

Just for the record , prison officers and police officers now wear body cams.The Prison service union state it will likely stop assaults on prison officers , which apparently has had some positive results.
My point is, bus drivers are at risk of assaults from other road users or passengers. Particularly in towns and cities.
Someone is less likely to commit an offence if they know they are being filmed. I’m not saying it’ll does in all cases because obviously some people don’t care, but surely it’s a deterrent?

Also couldn’t it clamp down on false complaints from passengers or even upheld their complaints if they’re genuine? A body cam can only show facts and what actually happened. People version of events can differ from the actual facts.

 

[43066]

Just for the record , prison officers and police officers now wear body cams.The Prison service union state it will likely stop assaults on prison officers , which apparently has had some positive results.

Company issued ones, not their own ones. That’s the crucial difference.

You’d be better off suggesting to your employer that they start to issue you all body cameras.

 

[skyhigh]

Those


No, but it would help identify those perpetrators. Just incase the bus’s cctv doesn’t work. The driver may get a better view with a body cam.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2023 ==

Just for the record , prison officers and police officers now wear body cams.The Prison service union state it will likely stop assaults on prison officers , which apparently has had some positive results.
My point is, bus drivers are at risk of assaults from other road users or passengers. Particularly in towns and cities.
Someone is less likely to commit an offence if they know they are being filmed. I’m not saying it’ll does in all cases because obviously some people don’t care, but surely it’s a deterrent?

I can see what you mean and agree that there would probably be a benefit to company-issued bodycams. However, they need to be company issued and company controlled rather than employees just deciding to get themselves one. If a police officer was to wear a bodycam they've bought instead of the provided one it wouldn't go down well at all.

Also couldn’t it clamp down on false complaints from passengers or even upheld their complaints if they’re genuine? A body cam can only show facts and what actually happened. People version of events can differ from the actual facts.

That would only help in a situation you knew there would be a complaint and activated the bodycam in good time. Bodycams will generally record a buffer of 30 seconds or so which is overwritten in a loop. If you're suggesting recording (with audio) your entire shift on a bodycam that's a different kettle of fish to a bodycam that's only activated when a situation requires it.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Those


No, but it would help identify those perpetrators. Just incase the bus’s cctv doesn’t work. The driver may get a better view with a body cam.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2023 ==

Just for the record , prison officers and police officers now wear body cams.The Prison service union state it will likely stop assaults on prison officers , which apparently has had some positive results.
My point is, bus drivers are at risk of assaults from other road users or passengers. Particularly in towns and cities.
Someone is less likely to commit an offence if they know they are being filmed. I’m not saying it’ll does in all cases because obviously some people don’t care, but surely it’s a deterrent?

Also couldn’t it clamp down on false complaints from passengers or even upheld their complaints if they’re genuine? A body cam can only show facts and what actually happened. People version of events can differ from the actual facts.

Police officers etc use bodycams to record situations that may not necessarily be covered or captured by regular CCTV, and to capture an angle that shows almost exactly what the officer would see, usually to justify the use of reasonable force by an officer.

Large operators buses are covered in CCTV. It is almost guaranteed to work because it saves them an absolute fortune in the long run. I'd hazard a guess that, in terms of cameras per square foot (or something along those lines) buses are second to none for CCTV coverage. A bodycam is unlikely to provide any extra deterrent or useful footage.

I'd be interested to know what part of the country you are working in that is so akin to the wild west. I find it highly unlikely that the situation is anywhere near as bad as you seem to be suggesting - the union would be in absolute uproar if drivers were being assaulted left, right and centre and the company were doing naff all about it. If driving a bus makes you personally feel like that much of a target for violence, I'd suggest that bus driving probably isn't the job for you.

 

[RogerOut]

Police officers etc use bodycams to record situations that may not necessarily be covered or captured by regular CCTV, and to capture an angle that shows almost exactly what the officer would see, usually to justify the use of reasonable force by an officer.

Large operators buses are covered in CCTV. It is almost guaranteed to work because it saves them an absolute fortune in the long run. I'd hazard a guess that, in terms of cameras per square foot (or something along those lines) buses are second to none for CCTV coverage. A bodycam is unlikely to provide any extra deterrent or useful footage.

I'd be interested to know what part of the country you are working in that is so akin to the wild west. I find it highly unlikely that the situation is anywhere near as bad as you seem to be suggesting - the union would be in absolute uproar if drivers were being assaulted left, right and centre and the company were doing naff all about it. If driving a bus makes you personally feel like that much of a target for violence, I'd suggest that bus driving probably isn't the job for you.

But I’ve been doing the job on and off for 12 years almost. Not consistently.

I can think of instances where drivers have been assaulted both in London and the South East. At least one of them quite badly.

As for the union, I won’t comment too much but I don’t always have much faith in them.

Lots of drivers I know would go HGV driving if they had the license to do it. Let’s be honest lots of people don’t like bus drivers, you only have to look on social media at the comments on us. Most people see us as a nuisance or an inconvenience being in their way.
If you don’t believe that, you are naive or drive buses in a very quiet place where you’re appreciated. Don’t you think there’s a reason why bus companies always recruit drivers? Think about it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Someone is less likely to commit an offence if they know they are being filmed. I’m not saying it’ll does in all cases because obviously some people don’t care, but surely it’s a deterrent?

Also couldn’t it clamp down on false complaints from passengers or even upheld their complaints if they’re genuine? A body cam can only show facts and what actually happened. People version of events can differ from the actual facts.

Those two points can't both be true though. For the first one, the would-be offender needs to know you have the bodycam. For the second one, they'd have to be unaware the bodycam was present.

 

[M803UYA]

Those


No, but it would help identify those perpetrators. Just incase the bus’s cctv doesn’t work. The driver may get a better view with a body cam.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2023 ==

Just for the record , prison officers and police officers now wear body cams.The Prison service union state it will likely stop assaults on prison officers , which apparently has had some positive results.
My point is, bus drivers are at risk of assaults from other road users or passengers. Particularly in towns and cities.
Someone is less likely to commit an offence if they know they are being filmed. I’m not saying it’ll does in all cases because obviously some people don’t care, but surely it’s a deterrent?

Also couldn’t it clamp down on false complaints from passengers or even upheld their complaints if they’re genuine? A body cam can only show facts and what actually happened. People version of events can differ from the actual facts.

Has your employer issued you with a contract of employment? I'd be surprised if nothing is contained within it on the position of recording images/sound covertly without permission of the employer? Is there, for instance, a mobile phone policy? This is a mobile device you're talking about. Would you use your mobile phone whilst in charge of the bus you're driving, or would you remove yourself from the vehicle to make a call as most professional drivers would?
Seeing as most large bus operators like to look for reasons to dismiss drivers for things all I can see here is ample evidence for your employer to dismiss you from their employment. You can bet the 'cameras' onboard the bus will be working in order to gather evidence of your using a bodycam whilst driving the bus.

 

[skyhigh]

Let’s be honest lots of people don’t like bus drivers, you only have to look on social media at the comments on us.

And if you look you'll see similar comments about HGV drivers. And car drivers. And cyclists. And train drivers. And pretty much every profession.

If you go looking online for negative comments you'll find some about pretty much every profession or hobby!

 

[Starmill]

But I’ve been doing the job on and off for 12 years almost. Not consistently.

I can think of instances where drivers have been assaulted both in London and the South East. At least one of them quite badly.

As for the union, I won’t comment too much but I don’t always have much faith in them.

Lots of drivers I know would go HGV driving if they had the license to do it. Let’s be honest lots of people don’t like bus drivers, you only have to look on social media at the comments on us. Most people see us as a nuisance or an inconvenience being in their way.
If you don’t believe that, you are naive or drive buses in a very quiet place where you’re appreciated. Don’t you think there’s a reason why bus companies always recruit drivers? Think about it.

I agree that the situation is unfair on people who are doing important work in driving buses. Unfortunately however I don't agree, and this is what people are trying to get across, that a bodycam would help you here.

Others have already explained the best way to keep yourself safe at work. Don't become involved in any interactions other than those directly with you and your bus, don't get out of the cab unless it's absolutely unavoidable that you do, and don't react to aggressive behaviour. If you're in a dangerous situation which you're not able to drive away from, dial 999 and don't leave your cab. If you're being threatened by someone, you could be in immediate danger, so you must wait for the police to attend. While many forces in this country do get basic things wrong disappointingly often, they in general be able to turn up to this kind of incident within minutes and defuse it.

Have you been in touch with one of the freight companies with a depot near you? Likely they'll have vacancies and likely an experienced bus driver is someone they'd be pleased to hear from if you were willing to go through the training.

 

[RogerOut]

I agree that the situation is unfair on people who are doing important work in driving buses. Unfortunately however I don't agree, and this is what people are trying to get across, that a bodycam would help you here.

Others have already explained the best way to keep yourself safe at work. Don't become involved in any interactions other than those directly with you and your bus, don't get out of the cab unless it's absolutely unavoidable that you do, and don't react to aggressive behaviour. If you're in a dangerous situation which you're not able to drive away from, dial 999 and don't leave your cab. If you're being threatened by someone, you could be in immediate danger, so you must wait for the police to attend. While many forces in this country do get basic things wrong disappointingly often, they in general be able to turn up to this kind of incident within minutes and defuse it.

Have you been in touch with one of the freight companies with a depot near you? Likely they'll have vacancies and likely an experienced bus driver is someone they'd be pleased to hear from if you were willing to go through the training.

Already got all my licences, as for HGV driving been there and done that. I agree with your post though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2023 ==

Has your employer issued you with a contract of employment? I'd be surprised if nothing is contained within it on the position of recording images/sound covertly without permission of the employer? Is there, for instance, a mobile phone policy? This is a mobile device you're talking about. Would you use your mobile phone whilst in charge of the bus you're driving, or would you remove yourself from the vehicle to make a call as most professional drivers would?
Seeing as most large bus operators like to look for reasons to dismiss drivers for things all I can see here is ample evidence for your employer to dismiss you from their employment. You can bet the 'cameras' onboard the bus will be working in order to gather evidence of your using a bodycam whilst driving the bus.

And you made a point there. That most large bus operators like to look for reason to dismiss drivers. That’s a point of I’ve always found strange, bus operator find it difficult to retain staff yet seem to want to get rid of them. I’ve never known an industry like that before.
Is it any wonder with bus operators attitudes like that, drivers become disillusioned?
As some driver have done at my place, they save 2 or 3 grand, move onto trucks and get a HGV license. Mainly due to the public , and better hours.

 

[RJ]

Already got all my licences, as for HGV driving been there and done that. I agree with your post though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2023 ==



And you made a point there. That most large bus operators like to look for reason to dismiss drivers. That’s a point of I’ve always found strange, bus operator find it difficult to retain staff yet seem to want to get rid of them. I’ve never known an industry like that before.
Is it any wonder with bus operators attitudes like that, drivers become disillusioned?
As some driver have done at my place, they save 2 or 3 grand, move onto trucks and get a HGV license. Mainly due to the public , and better hours.

Bus companies don’t seek to oust staff for no reason. Often the full story isn’t known when someone gets sacked - you don’t know if they were doing things which sabotaged the operation or demonstrated that they weren’t suited to the job.

But I’ve been doing the job on and off for 12 years almost. Not consistently.

I can think of instances where drivers have been assaulted both in London and the South East. At least one of them quite badly.

As for the union, I won’t comment too much but I don’t always have much faith in them.

Lots of drivers I know would go HGV driving if they had the license to do it. Let’s be honest lots of people don’t like bus drivers, you only have to look on social media at the comments on us. Most people see us as a nuisance or an inconvenience being in their way.
If you don’t believe that, you are naive or drive buses in a very quiet place where you’re appreciated. Don’t you think there’s a reason why bus companies always recruit drivers? Think about it.

If you really want to earn a living with a PCV licence, maybe there are other types of work you’d be happier doing. Airport staff shuttles for instance, it’s closed door with no fare collection which means less chance of conflicting with the passengers. And you drive from a car park to the terminal so very little potential for clashes with other motorists.

You could also work for someone like Dawson Rentals where the job is to move buses around without carrying any passengers. Or join a trade plater firm. But you’ll still have to share the road with other motorists.

Or you could become a bus operator who drives so you can do everything the way you like it - you can pick your work and your vehicles and be responsible for delivering the service.

 

[AlterEgo]

Those


No, but it would help identify those perpetrators. Just incase the bus’s cctv doesn’t work. The driver may get a better view with a body cam.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2023 ==

Just for the record , prison officers and police officers now wear body cams.The Prison service union state it will likely stop assaults on prison officers , which apparently has had some positive results.
My point is, bus drivers are at risk of assaults from other road users or passengers. Particularly in towns and cities.
Someone is less likely to commit an offence if they know they are being filmed. I’m not saying it’ll does in all cases because obviously some people don’t care, but surely it’s a deterrent?

Also couldn’t it clamp down on false complaints from passengers or even upheld their complaints if they’re genuine? A body cam can only show facts and what actually happened. People version of events can differ from the actual facts.

The solution is to ask your employer for a bodycam, not to film stuff yourself at work, risking your job.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

I went to a busy, city-centre Wetherspoons recently and ordinary waiting-on staff were wearing body cameras. I don’t see how this would be any different. Nor do I see how it’s any different to someone having a dash cam or filming on a mobile phone.

However, if someone is intent on harming you a camera is unlikely to stop them.

Those cameras are issued by Wetherspoons and are operated by their data controller as per data protection 1998 and GDPR.

 

[Deerfold]

Those cameras are issued by westherspoons and are operated by there data controller as per data protection 1998 and GDPR

Latest data protection act is 2018.

 

[Tetchytyke]

As for anyone requesting footage, how can they if it’s my personal equipment? If someone filmed you doing anything, you couldn’t ask them for the footage from their phone because you objected to being filmed.
Anyone can film anything and anyone in public can’t they ?

The exemptions under GDPR apply to filming for domestic purposes. If you’re doing it in the course of your work then it’s not domestic. Filming for other purposes does fall under GDPR. The dashcam channels on YouTube only continue because trying to get Google to take anything down is like urinating in the wind.

Fines can be very high for GDPR breaches, and your employer is unlikely to take kindly if they end up in bother because of something they didn’t know you were doing.

You’ve asked advice. My advice is that it is of borderline legality and, even more importantly, is likely to see you in a world of pain with your employer if detected.

If you believe a bodycam is something that would benefit you, you should be discussing it with your employer for them to arrange it for drivers who want them. Plenty of employers use them now.

 

[M803UYA]

You’ve asked advice. My advice is that it is of borderline legality and, even more importantly, is likely to see you in a world of pain with your employer if detected.

This. The OP has asked advice, of which copious amounts have been given.

 

[GusB]

While nothing posted in the thread should be taken as legal advice, the key points that have been made seem to be:

• Talk to your employer if there's an issue that makes you feel that a bodycam is necessary over and above any existing CCTV.
• Your trade union should be helping if there is a specific issue and, if not, what are you paying them for?
• GDPR can be a minefield and there are quite severe penalties if it is not adhered to.

There's not much more that can be said on the subject without going round in circles, so the thread will be locked. @RogerOut, if you do decide to bring this up with your boss and wish to provide us with an update at some point in the future, please report this post.

Thanks for your input, everyone.