National College for High Speed Rail to close

[island]

Just 6 years after its first students started, the National College for High Speed Rail in Doncaster is closing down.

How HS2 bungles forced a new college for rail engineers to close its doors

When Justine Greening opened the National College for High Speed Rail in 2017 she was filled with optimism. It was “a win-win for everyone,” said the educatio

www.thetimes.co.uk

When Justine Greening opened the National College for High Speed Rail in 2017 she was filled with optimism. It was “a win-win for everyone,” said the education secretary at the time. Based in Doncaster, near where the Flying Scotsman was built in 1923 and within minutes of at least 20 rail engineering firms and a major rail freight terminal, it was an obvious site for the country’s first specialist high-speed rail college. A suitably grand glass and steel building was constructed to house the high-tech project aimed at training some of the 2,000 apprentices it was thought would be needed to build the HS2 rail network, linking north and south.

Next month, just six years since its first students arrived, the college, renamed the National College for Advanced Transport and Infrastructure, will close. A victim, and symbol, of the dither, delay and cutbacks around HS2.

 

[zwk500]

Been floating around on twitter. This is the price we pay for government failing to give long-term confidence in the industry. Who'd sign up for an apprenticeship in HS Rail at the moment when costs are ballooning and the government are threatening to axe stations on a regular basis?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are we still "world class" in high speed rail?
Having said that, some of Germany's HS lines have been decades in the making, and still have operational issues.
France's plans have been pared back, and Spain has reduced several of its new lines to single track to save money.
Italy somehow manages to expand steadily, but the new tunnelled routes to France and Austria are in time/cost difficulty.
But they all at least have a basic backbone of HS routes - we don't.

 

[island]

Are we still "world class" in high speed rail?

Were we ever?

 

[HSTEd]

The whole project was arguably a political stunt.

There was never going to be a sufficient supply of projects to require a long term specialised training apparatus.

Given the (partial) collapse of the HS2 scheme into a money pit quagmire, this is hardly surprising. It's all very well to blame the politicians, but the reality is it was spiralling costs and schedule that got HS2 chopped to pieces.

 

[zwk500]

Were we ever?

in 1938...

 

[Lucan]

Were we ever?

Until the early 1980s, when the APT project was dropped.

 

[LUYMun]

Until the early 1980s, when the APT project was dropped.

I doubt even then, considering other nations' high speed networks (Shinkansen and TGV spring to mind)

 

[DanNCL]

the government are threatening to axe stations on a regular basis?

They're not though are they? The only stations that are being threatened with the axe are those that should have gone long ago, such as the "temporarily closed" Teesside Airport.

 

[zwk500]

They're not though are they? The only stations that are being threatened with the axe are those that should have gone long ago, such as the "temporarily closed" Teesside Airport.

*HS stations. Euston, Crewe, Manchester, Leeds, etc. Also the Golborne Link and the rehash of the eastern branch to East Mids Pkwy.

 

[dereksingh291]

will the other high speed rail college also close in Birmingham?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Were we ever?

HS2 was supposed to leapfrog us to that status, with the fastest line (360km/h) and the best trains in the specification.
Not looking so easy now, though.
Much like us having 140mph-capable trains for 2 decades but no plan to operate faster than 125mph (bar on HS1).

 

[DanNCL]

*HS stations. Euston, Crewe, Manchester, Leeds, etc. Also the Golborne Link and the rehash of the eastern branch to East Mids Pkwy.

Ah, apologies, thought you were referring to existing stations!

 

[zwk500]

Ah, apologies, thought you were referring to existing stations!

Well, don't give the DfT ideas but I suspect the National College for HSR doesn't really factor Teesside Airport's status into it's financial viability plan.

 

[deltic]

The whole project was arguably a political stunt.

There was never going to be a sufficient supply of projects to require a long term specialised training apparatus.

Given the (partial) collapse of the HS2 scheme into a money pit quagmire, this is hardly surprising. It's all very well to blame the politicians, but the reality is it was spiralling costs and schedule that got HS2 chopped to pieces.

Training covered conventional and high speed rail. Students were snapped up by companies and offered apprenticeships while they were on the course. I never understood why both colleges were not more successful given the industry is crying out for skilled workers.

 

[Master29]

Are we still "world class" in high speed rail?

I`m sorry but I coughed coffee all over my keyboard at reading that first line.

 

[HSTEd]

Training covered conventional and high speed rail. Students were snapped up by companies and offered apprenticeships while they were on the course. I never understood why both colleges were not more successful given the industry is crying out for skilled workers.

These schemes tend to be very attractive to employers until the time comes for them to get some money out of their pocket to help pay for them.

Then the good feelings towards them melt away.

Much cheaper to poach than train your own.

 

[sprinterguy]

will the other high speed rail college also close in Birmingham?

Yeah, it seems that they're both closing:

Former national college to officially close down

NCATI, formerly the National College for High Speed Rail, will wind down in July

feweek.co.uk

Former national college to officially close down​

---

One of the government’s former flagship national colleges has confirmed it will close its doors for good this summer after failing to find a sustainable future.
The National College for Advanced Transport and Infrastructure (NCATI), which has campuses in Birmingham and Doncaster and was formerly known as the National College for High Speed Rail, will cease direct delivery and wind down by July 31, 2023.

The decision was announced today following a two-month consultation that explored alternative business models in the face of long-standing financial challenges caused by insufficient student numbers.

In total 42 staff will lose their jobs and almost 170 learners and apprentices will be affected.

Interim principal and chief executive, Lowell Williams, said: “Unfortunately, we have been unable to identify a sustainable future for NCATI as a direct deliverer of education, and therefore we have made the difficult decision to discontinue delivery of learning.

“Our first priority now is to ensure all our learners have the opportunity to complete or continue their studies.”

Dependent on their location, the college’s 24 learners on study programmes will transfer to either DN Colleges Group or to South & City College Birmingham; while 81 apprentices with an end date beyond 31 July 2023 will transfer to other providers.

NCATI’s 25 higher education learners and another 38 apprentices will complete their programme with NCATI this academic year.

Williams said the Education and Skills Funding Agency has “expressed a desire” for NCATI’s buildings and land – which had a net book value of £19.5 million at July 31, 2022 – to remain an asset for the FE sector and the rail industry, as originally envisaged.
NCATI will “continue to work with the ESFA, City of Doncaster Council and Birmingham City Council in determining the future use of the buildings”. The board is also “continuing to explore collaborative models that might be developed as a legacy to NCATI’s original mission and vision”, Williams added.

The college has had a torrid time since being opened by then-education secretary Justine Greening in 2017 as the National College for High Speed Rail.

It struggled to recruit learners due to delays in announcing contractors for the High Speed 2 railway project, which meant employers were unable to commit to the apprentice volumes they had originally anticipated.

 

[alxndr]

It's not the only place that's closed. Sheffield Hallam used to offer a part time rail systems engineering degree that enabled people already in the industry to progress without having to quit their jobs and go into full time study. That has been withdrawn and they now only offer the apprenticeship. As the funding comes from the English government it's no longer possible to get funding if you don't work in England, meaning there's nothing similar available now to those in Scotland.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Are we still "world class" in high speed rail?

What was the source for this apparent quote?

Were we ever?

in 1938...

Until the early 1980s, when the APT project was dropped.

Britain's one-time leadership in 'high speed rail' was clearly demonstrated on 1 March 1888, when a raft of wagons broke away at Middleton Top on the Cromford & High Peak line and descended the combined Middleton and Sheep Pasture inclines with gradients of 1:8.5. They were calculated to have materially exceeded 100mph without derailing until they became airborne at the foot of the incline and flew over the Cromford Canal and Midland Railway. (A catch pit was constructed to prevent future aeronautics.)

However, this world speed lead was lost with the establishment in Prussia of a 'Research Association for High Speed Electric Railways' (to render it in English) with a high-speed test track at the Royal Prussian Military Railway, near Berlin, around the turn of the century. This was the venue for an Allgemeine Elektricitäts-Gesellschaft three-phase electric railcar to achieve 130mph in 1903.

This was before City of Truro's alleged achievement on Wellington Bank in 1904, let alone what happened on Stoke Bank in 1938.

Britain was fundamentally pursuing with an obsolescent (if not yet obsolete) form of traction.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Yeah, it seems that they're both closing:

Former national college to officially close down

NCATI, formerly the National College for High Speed Rail, will wind down in July

feweek.co.uk

Former national college to officially close down​

---

One of the government’s former flagship national colleges has confirmed it will close its doors for good this summer after failing to find a sustainable future.
The National College for Advanced Transport and Infrastructure (NCATI), which has campuses in Birmingham and Doncaster and was formerly known as the National College for High Speed Rail, will cease direct delivery and wind down by July 31, 2023.

The decision was announced today following a two-month consultation that explored alternative business models in the face of long-standing financial challenges caused by insufficient student numbers.

In total 42 staff will lose their jobs and almost 170 learners and apprentices will be affected.

Interim principal and chief executive, Lowell Williams, said: “Unfortunately, we have been unable to identify a sustainable future for NCATI as a direct deliverer of education, and therefore we have made the difficult decision to discontinue delivery of learning.

“Our first priority now is to ensure all our learners have the opportunity to complete or continue their studies.”

Dependent on their location, the college’s 24 learners on study programmes will transfer to either DN Colleges Group or to South & City College Birmingham; while 81 apprentices with an end date beyond 31 July 2023 will transfer to other providers.

NCATI’s 25 higher education learners and another 38 apprentices will complete their programme with NCATI this academic year.

Williams said the Education and Skills Funding Agency has “expressed a desire” for NCATI’s buildings and land – which had a net book value of £19.5 million at July 31, 2022 – to remain an asset for the FE sector and the rail industry, as originally envisaged.
NCATI will “continue to work with the ESFA, City of Doncaster Council and Birmingham City Council in determining the future use of the buildings”. The board is also “continuing to explore collaborative models that might be developed as a legacy to NCATI’s original mission and vision”, Williams added.

The college has had a torrid time since being opened by then-education secretary Justine Greening in 2017 as the National College for High Speed Rail.

It struggled to recruit learners due to delays in announcing contractors for the High Speed 2 railway project, which meant employers were unable to commit to the apprentice volumes they had originally anticipated.

I went to the college during covid times (Birmingham Campus) and I found it very challenging with a mix of home and college learning. I did a Higher Education course and English/Maths along side it. Only did one year of it and the experience wasn't great. The college itself was clean and very modern and the staff were nice but the course yeah I didn't like it. I completed the course so not all bad at the end of the day. It was the old ex HS1 college before it changed.

 

[158756]

Training covered conventional and high speed rail. Students were snapped up by companies and offered apprenticeships while they were on the course. I never understood why both colleges were not more successful given the industry is crying out for skilled workers.

I don't know about this college specifically, but I think there is a cultural problem finding students for this sort of thing. The students you would really want will all go to university, with many of them ending up in low skilled jobs which don't really need a degree, while apprenticeships are seen as a direction for kids who don't do well at school, aren't really interested in education and often lack the English and Maths skills to do the more demanding apprenticeships. The (now closed) technical college near me ended up full of kids who'd been chucked out of other schools.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What was the source for this apparent quote?

All of the initial announcements about HS2 carried the term "world class" for the line, the trains, the stations and the whole High Speed era in the UK.
It was why a high-speed partner was required for the ICWC franchise, won by Avanti (First+Trenitalia), which is supposed to start operations on HS2.
(The failed Stagecoach/Virgin bid went with SNCF).

The spin-offs in construction and engineering were also labelled as part of that world class ambition, gearing up to deliver the "Y" network.
The cut-backs in the envisaged network mean we will be left with a WCML replacement to Manchester, nothing like the transformation promised at the start.
We also have no clue what NPR will deliver, or when, beyond vague lines on a map.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

What will happen to both campuses when they close? They are too modern to be knocked down.

 

[zwk500]

What will happen to both campuses when they close? They are too modern to be knocked down.

From the article:

Williams said the Education and Skills Funding Agency has “expressed a desire” for NCATI’s buildings and land – which had a net book value of £19.5 million at July 31, 2022 – to remain an asset for the FE sector and the rail industry, as originally envisaged.

They want to retain the buildings for educational use, although quite what that might involve isn't clear.

 

[swt_passenger]

Although HS2 is definitely a rail project, what proportion of the current workforce are involved in track or signalling? Surely the vast majority of the work so far is in large scale civils, earthmoving, tunnelling, bridges, permanent and temporary roads.

Is it possible this ‘specialist stuff‘ wasn‘t ever needed this early?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Although HS2 is definitely a rail project, what proportion of the current workforce are involved in track or signalling? Surely the vast majority of the work so far is in large scale civils, earthmoving, tunnelling, bridges, permanent and temporary roads.

Is it possible this ‘specialist stuff‘ wasn‘t ever needed this early?

My thoughts too.

I’m a great believer in ‘technical colleges’, having done much better at one than during an earlier unhappy spell at a supposedly ‘good school’. However, I visited the Doncaster college a few years ago and it was clearly already struggling to remain ‘popular’.

 

[cmeads]

Do we need these colleges?
No train driver or guard I know went to college to learn to drive or guard.

On the p'way Sidings & extra track would be laid by the local gang with their foreman using just his eyes to set out, up to the 1960's.
I believe nowdays a simple siding is discussed & debated & booklets produced for months, even years before a single sleeper is put down.
Brunel did not go to college to learn to survey & build amazing bridges & tunnels.
He went down the Thames tunnel construction site at Wapping to learn his craft from his father..& nearly drowned there. I often think of that as I study Brunel's legacy from the front end.

 

[LYuen]

My thoughts too.

I’m a great believer in ‘technical colleges’, having done much better at one than during an earlier unhappy spell at a supposedly ‘good school’. However, I visited the Doncaster college a few years ago and it was clearly already struggling to remain ‘popular’.

If we were the frontier in high speed rail technology - Japan has researched and/or invented digital signalling, automatic train control (ATC), regenerative braking, etc, before they committed to the construction of the line.
However, as long as the UK is adopting/tendering existing specifications and technologies at the current stage, the technical college is more or less re-inventing the wheels.

 

[Atomix330]

So there will be two Eurostar Class 373 driving units needing new homes...