CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[sd0733]

Any news on when they are likely to start on Holyhead-Cardiff/Swanline?

It's planned for Monday but looks like will be delayed until the end of next week

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It's planned for Monday but looks like will be delayed until the end of next week

Well that is fabulous seeing as a while ago it had no date!

 

[Techniquest]

It's planned for Monday but looks like will be delayed until the end of next week

Wonderful news The new era is finally coming to this part of the TfW empire I will be keeping an eye out for the details, and I hope that I will be there on the first day of 197s Holyhead-Cardiff services!

 

[childwallblues]

197009 was on the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street service yesterday. Is this another new to service as I have not previously seen it?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197009 was on the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street service yesterday. Is this another new to service as I have not previously seen it?

Might I respectfully suggest you start looking at this thread?

New Units in Service in 2023

All help appreciated in keeping this thread updated. Have got it on a few forums so that as many eyes as possible can help with it. Updates in bold. Entering service in 2023 have been..... UNIT ORDER..... 196001 WM: 10/01/23: 2J32 17:26 BHM-SHR. 196004 WM: 23/02/23: 2J02 05:56 BHM-SHR. 196005...

www.railforums.co.uk

As 197009 has been in use since January, and you’ve asked this about other 197s that have long been in service before. This might help.

 

[SeaKing]

What units are on network but not entered service. (not counting ones at Donnington)

 

[56xx]

Might I respectfully suggest you start looking at this thread?

New Units in Service in 2023

All help appreciated in keeping this thread updated. Have got it on a few forums so that as many eyes as possible can help with it. Updates in bold. Entering service in 2023 have been..... UNIT ORDER..... 196001 WM: 10/01/23: 2J32 17:26 BHM-SHR. 196004 WM: 23/02/23: 2J02 05:56 BHM-SHR. 196005...

www.railforums.co.uk

Unfortunately the summary at the start of the thread hasn't updated for 6 weeks now despite a good number of units being reported in service along the thread.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unfortunately the summary at the start of the thread hasn't updated for 6 weeks now despite a good number of units being reported in service along the thread.

Sure, but the two 197s the OP most recently incorrectly assumed were newly accepted are there.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

15 are in passenger service at the momant. Another 23 (13 2-car and 10 3-car) have made their way to Crewe or Chester as far as I'm aware, but are yet to have worked a passenger service.

 

[Western 52]

Are the sets being used for crew training part of the 15 accepted units?

 

[sd0733]

Are the sets being used for crew training part of the 15 accepted units?

Mostly not, but the ones that aren't accepted have to have a CAF technician on at All times, if they aren't available then an accepted unit has to be used.

 

[Armchair Bob]

Out of 001 - 021, l have it as 001,003,005,014,016 and 020 yet to run in service - so that's your 15.

 

[Jez]

It's planned for Monday but looks like will be delayed until the end of next week

That is great news. Hopefully we wont be disappointed! If any are to come as far as Swansea id like to travel on the first day if possible. 3 months ago today I last went on a 197 Manchester Oxford Road to the Airport and back.

 

[sd0733]

That is great news. Hopefully we wont be disappointed! If any are to come as far as Swansea id like to travel on the first day if possible. 3 months ago today I last went on a 197 Manchester Oxford Road to the Airport and back.

It's just between Cardiff and Holyhead it's planned. AFAIK they aren't signed off for passenger traffic beyond Cardiff yet.

 

[Anonymous10]

It's just between Cardiff and Holyhead it's planned. AFAIK they aren't signed off for passenger traffic beyond Cardiff yet.

Might be off to Cardiff again in that case they look very modern

 

[47444]

On Wednesday 31st, I drove past a driving car of 197117 on the back of a lorry heading north on the M5 between Worcester and Birmingham.

 

[Bob Price]

On Wednesday 31st, I drove past a driving car of 197117 on the back of a lorry heading north on the M5 between Worcester and Birmingham.

Probably heading for Donnington where they transfer them onto the rails.

 

[Jez]

Yes so in a 4 or 5 coach formation you are carrying about two catering cupboards.

Any details of these many ways in which they are better? For example I'm not that bothered about the door layout and think that having doors at 'thirds' can be an advantage in catering for high loadings in the rush hour out of Manchester\Cardiff\Birmingham and on a summer Saturday on the coast.

I prefer a 197 to a 150/158/153 because they are a lot more modern, have a nice ambience, comfortable seats, good amount of legroom, the information screens are also very modern compared to other units. I like the doors at thirds, its better if there are a lot of standing passengers (that's one thing the 150s have in their favour when used on the Marches) plus better for timekeeping/dwell times.

The things I dont like are the lack of toilets compared to a 175/158. Plus as discussed the catering cupboard. But as I said it wont matter as much on a 4/5 car formation as even though these will have 2 of them it will still be more seating overall than a 2 car Sprinter. A massive upgrade in both quality and capacity.

 

[sd0733]

Monday is now planned to be the first day of 197s to Cardiff, first working is planned to be 0805 Holyhead to Cardiff.

Obviously subject to changes on the day.

 

[Techniquest]

Monday is now planned to be the first day of 197s to Cardiff, first working is planned to be 0805 Holyhead to Cardiff.

Obviously subject to changes on the day.

Clearly my morning schedule for that then, of course all the while knowing it may not happen.

Thanks for the heads-up

 

[Leeds1970]

what sort of track is used Crewe - Shrewsbury -Newport ? is it jointed, continuous welded or a mix ? The reason for asking is i use trains to / from work everyday and having travelled on the Northern rail equivalent - class 196s and the Transpennine 185 (used as a comparison due to door configuration).

Possibly due to the air bag position and smaller size the track/bogie noise on a class 196 is significantly higher than the 185 and the ride quality is also slightly better on the 185, the Caf units also have the new squealy brake syndrome thankfully not as bad as the 180s. my own personal opinion is that they are good for use on commuter services as people shifters but as for long distance i think they could have been so much better but it comes down to how many can we get for £X.

 

[Jez]

Monday is now planned to be the first day of 197s to Cardiff, first working is planned to be 0805 Holyhead to Cardiff.

Obviously subject to changes on the day.

Great news. Will it be 1 diagram on Holyhead to Cardiff's to start with? Also are any 3 cars ready to enter service or will they all be 2 cars for the moment?

 

[craigybagel]

what sort of track is used Crewe - Shrewsbury -Newport ? is it jointed, continuous welded or a mix ? The reason for asking is i use trains to / from work everyday and having travelled on the Northern rail equivalent - class 196s and the Transpennine 185 (used as a comparison due to door configuration).

Possibly due to the air bag position and smaller size the track/bogie noise on a class 196 is significantly higher than the 185 and the ride quality is also slightly better on the 185, the Caf units also have the new squealy brake syndrome thankfully not as bad as the 180s. my own personal opinion is that they are good for use on commuter services as people shifters but as for long distance i think they could have been so much better but it comes down to how many can we get for £X.

All CWR, other than some low speed stuff around junctions as you'd expect.

 

[Envoy]

Great news. Will it be 1 diagram on Holyhead to Cardiff's to start with? Also are any 3 cars ready to enter service or will they all be 2 cars for the moment?

It won’t look good if they only send 2 cars & they are packed. People will say look - TfW have replaced rammed 2 car trains with new rammed 2 car trains. They need to provide the new 197’s with the right number of carriages to fit the predicted loadings for that diagram.

 

[Techniquest]

It won’t look good if they only send 2 cars & they are packed. People will say look - TfW have replaced rammed 2 car trains with new rammed 2 car trains. They need to provide the new 197’s with the right number of carriages to fit the predicted loadings for that diagram.

I think the new trains will be so welcomed that, as long as the proper length sets came along in a reasonable time, the short trains would be acceptable for now. North Wales have had them for long enough, it's time we had them on North-South services too. Of course, their arrival on Manchester services will be even better!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Monday is now planned to be the first day of 197s to Cardiff, first working is planned to be 0805 Holyhead to Cardiff.

Obviously subject to changes on the day.

Honestly I’m very excited to have these serve Cardiff. I’ll look forward to taking a trip to Shrewsbury or somewhere on one when I can. Could always tie it in with 196s from there and Hereford.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I think the new trains will be so welcomed that, as long as the proper length sets came along in a reasonable time, the short trains would be acceptable for now. North Wales have had them for long enough, it's time we had them on North-South services too. Of course, their arrival on Manchester services will be even better!

Do we know how many 197s are typically allocated on a day to passenger and training, compared to how many TfW have?
Hopefully it can be a double on North-South (I assume that fits since MK4s run that route, also don't Civities have SDO?)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Of course, their arrival on Manchester services will be even better!

These tend to arrive at Cardiff far more packed than the ex Holyheads too, and also leave much busier.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

These tend to arrive at Cardiff far more packed than the ex Holyheads too, and also leave much busier.

I think that's pretty understandable since Manchester is much bigger of a destination, the 3 (or 6 if doubled?) car 197s

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think that's pretty understandable since Manchester is much bigger of a destination, the 3 (or 6 if doubled?) car 197s

Yes, I was merely pointing it out that the Manchesters are busier than the Holyheads. At no point did I suggest that that was odd.