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Fishguard to get 2 hourly service from September

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merlodlliw

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Announced by the WAG today, Fishguard will see an extra 5 services per day Mon-Sat from September 2011.
Currently, only two trains a day serve the branch, meeting with the Rosslare Ferry.

http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/transp...8YLJ89nsnwm9gJJhd1LY72hyyK!1452112521?lang=en


It would be nice to see the former stations along the line reopen too.

Where will the stock come from? it looks like a bit of politics in West Wales,election in five weeks, that's probably goodbye to the hourly Aberystwyths then.
Will the £1.4M be annual or for the three year trial. Note ATW have kept their hands in their pockets.
I await Gareth's view on this, he as got his ears to the ground. Could one 156 do the five up/down runs between Carmarthen to Fishguard ?
Bob
 
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Pacerpilot

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You only need 1 unit to work the additionals, and all ATW stock is cleared for the Line. Its a far easier service enhancement than the Aberystwyth service.
 

Gareth Marston

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Theirs been an announcement on TrawsCambria buses also today and if you look back this month there been a lot come out which has a heavy bias toward West Wales including road schemes, bus schemes and rail in terms of number of schemes but the £ has all gone on the A465 Heads of the Valleys road.

I'll look up the 2007 election results later and let you know the lie of the land.
As my memory recalls West Wales saw the most change in 07
 

anthony263

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Hopefully it wont be the class 153 which comes down on the 06:42 Cardiff - Pembroke dock service as this train is terrible sometimes when its only 2 carriages

This new service is good as is the new vehicles and extended routes on the trawscambira network. Stagecoach are planning on extending their 704 Newtown - Brecon service to Cardiff via Merthyr Tydfil
 

krus_aragon

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Ah, some good news!

Here are a few of my thoughts:

If the kick-off isn't until September, will that be enough time to get the 175 or 158 refurbishments out of the way, for general stock availability?

I agree that station reopenings should be sought: I trust SWWITCH will be looking at this in detail. Might there be some scope for improvements/reopenings on the Swansea District line in years to come (assuming that's the route used)?

What's the situation with access and parking at Fishguard harbour, given that it's owned by Stenna? I seem to recall some public parking spaces near the ocean lab, but that's a fair walk away from the ferry terminal and platform.
 

seagull

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Where will the stock come from?

Some of these must be available:

4888667314_b151404753.jpg
 

anthony263

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Ah, some good news!

Here are a few of my thoughts:

If the kick-off isn't until September, will that be enough time to get the 175 or 158 refurbishments out of the way, for general stock availability?

I agree that station reopenings should be sought: I trust SWWITCH will be looking at this in detail. Might there be some scope for improvements/reopenings on the Swansea District line in years to come (assuming that's the route used)?

What's the situation with access and parking at Fishguard harbour, given that it's owned by Stenna? I seem to recall some public parking spaces near the ocean lab, but that's a fair walk away from the ferry terminal and platform.

I forgot that ATW are due to have their 2 class 150's back from FGW hopefully by september.
 

merlodlliw

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Some of these must be available:

4888667314_b151404753.jpg

I still prefer"leopard is most easily recognised by his rosette patterned coat and extremely long, darker side. This large cat is sometimes confused in appearance with senior management at Cardiffs Penarth Zoo & is attracted to Unigate milk floats ,also as a habit of tearing up leather sofas when provoked"

The picture also reminds me of a valley lines pacer.


Bob
 
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Gareth Marston

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Hopefully it wont be the class 153 which comes down on the 06:42 Cardiff - Pembroke dock service as this train is terrible sometimes when its only 2 carriages

This new service is good as is the new vehicles and extended routes on the trawscambira network. Stagecoach are planning on extending their 704 Newtown - Brecon service to Cardiff via Merthyr Tydfil

As a resident of Newtown who travels to Cardiff often you will not find me on it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ah, some good news!

Here are a few of my thoughts:

If the kick-off isn't until September, will that be enough time to get the 175 or 158 refurbishments out of the way, for general stock availability?

I agree that station reopenings should be sought: I trust SWWITCH will be looking at this in detail. Might there be some scope for improvements/reopenings on the Swansea District line in years to come (assuming that's the route used)?

What's the situation with access and parking at Fishguard harbour, given that it's owned by Stenna? I seem to recall some public parking spaces near the ocean lab, but that's a fair walk away from the ferry terminal and platform.

The press release reads like Carmarthan to Fishguard Shuttles are the order of the day
 

Gareth Marston

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Theirs been an announcement on TrawsCambria buses also today and if you look back this month there been a lot come out which has a heavy bias toward West Wales including road schemes, bus schemes and rail in terms of number of schemes but the £ has all gone on the A465 Heads of the Valleys road.

I'll look up the 2007 election results later and let you know the lie of the land.
As my memory recalls West Wales saw the most change in 07

http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/transport/;jsessionid=hjPjNSpptLpynMvDQbCpPXpRy0DycrQTPqwng5QpVycdhXKCRhMv!-67787307?lang=en

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2007/welshasssembly_english/html/region_22.stm

I'm sure you'll agree that Carmarthanshire/ Pemrokeshire are marginal. Plaid got at 31% of the vote in Mid & West in 07 the largest individual share but there's at least 4 marginals they were involved in. Ceredigion is odd that they elect Plaid for Cardiff Bay but Lib Dem for Westminster. Plaid screamed blue murder about how much resource the Lib Dems chucked at it last year.

As I said the big £ is up on the Head of the Valleys road but the other schemes mentioned in WAG press release do have a westward bent.

Aberystwyth Hourly in the mix for election time was seen off by ERTMS being so late - its encouraged cold feet I'm afraid. I know some in Cereidgion Plaid were hoping for the announcement prior to the 2010 General Election!
 

merlodlliw

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This new service is good as is the new vehicles and extended routes on the trawscambira network. Stagecoach are planning on extending their 704 Newtown - Brecon service to Cardiff via Merthyr Tydfil[/QUOTE] anthony .

Four to five hours journey time no doubt, I think Ieuan is taking the pee out of SARPAS Committee, Direct Newtown to Cardiff bus:) that will shut them up.

Bob
 

TEW

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The two FGW units vary each day, they aren't a specific two. Originally they were planned to replace 158s when they returned with the 158s in turn released to allow extra Aberwyswyth trains.
 

Gareth Marston

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Additional trains to Fishguard
Deputy First Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones has today (Tuesday 29 March) announced up to £1.4m funding annually to provide extra train services to Fishguard.
Tuesday 29 March 2011

Speaking at Carmarthen Train Station the Minister for Transport confirmed that five additional trains will run between Fishguard and Carmarthen, commencing in September 2011.

Said Mr Jones,

“I am pleased to be able to deliver these rail improvements for the people of South West Wales.

“These additional services will play a vital role in improving links to the region that will in turn provide a boost to the area both in terms of tourism and the economy.

“We will now work closely with Arriva Trains Wales to develop a timetable that meets the needs of the local community.”

A community consultation on the timetable will begin in April and will look at how the additional services will connect for travel further east of Carmarthen to the rest of the rail network.

Commenting on the additional service Mike Bagshaw, Commercial Director of Arriva Trains Wales said,

“We are delighted to be working with the Welsh Assembly Government on introducing this new important rail link and will be involving local communities as we develop details of the new service.”

The extra 5 trains that will run in both directions every day between Mondays and Saturdays are in addition to the two current boat train services that connect with the midday and midnight ferries.

A review of the extra services will be carried out after the third year of the scheme to identify demand and passenger numbers, the nature of trips taken, and will at that time seek further community and user views.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The two FGW units vary each day, they aren't a specific two. Originally they were planned to replace 158s when they returned with the 158s in turn released to allow extra Aberwyswyth trains.

ATW will be glad when this week (no more Govt announces after Friday) is over- they can only magic so many extra units out of thin air for WAG.
 

Rhydgaled

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It would be nice to see the former stations along the line reopen too.
Of the closed stations on the line (at least 4, plus probablly one or two I've forgoten) only 2 would be worth opening. These are Fishguard & Goodwick (where all trains not connecting with a ferry would terminate) and Wolfscastle (where the nearby 412 bus stop would provide passengers from Letterston, and possibly Trecwn and Scleddau). However the track would need to be moved to re-open Wolfscastle, so I think we'll have to settle for Fishguard & Goodwick for the time being.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
No news on the X50(550) (Cardigan - (Aberporth) - (New Quay) - Aberaeron - Aberystwyth) TrawsCambria services? I guess they are staying as they are. I guess that's a good thing, as I don't like the look of the bus they're sitting in there (it has seat belts, I do not like being forced by the law to wear a seat belt on a bus). Notice no East-West link (I included an Aberaeron - Brecon - Abergavenny service as one of the suggestions in my consultation responce) and no apparent end to the wasteful X40 services south of Carmarthen (why do they even exist, there's a perfectly good railway from Carmarthen to Cardiff via Swansea). Also, new buses for the X40 and 704??? Surely, as the X40 and 704 alread has 55 and 06 plate Optare Tempos the X32 (Aberystwth - Bangor) and X94 (Barmouth - Wrexham) are higher priority for new vehicles (ok, I guess extending the 704 will require some extra vehicles). I suppose the new vehicles on X40 (which I think is hourly anyway) could cascade the present Tempos onto the X94 and/or X32. I also hope they bring the legroom on the Tempo fleet up to X50 standard.

The combined Fishguard/TrawsCambria anouncement is a little disapointing. It is in my opinion a waste of a good oppertunity to make a real difference. The service, I expect, is the single 153 shuttling back and forth to Carmarthen idea, which pretty much limits the passengers you could attract to those traveling from Fishguard/Goodwick (and, at a push, on the 413 (Fishguard - St Davids) route) to Carmarthen, and (with a change) stations between there and Swansea. The bright side is that it only uses 1 additional unit and does not use any 158s, which should help ensure the WAG is able to make good on their broken promise to make the Cambrian main line hourly. I write the following assuming that the Cambrian had gone hourly by 2011 as promised, as that is a very important scheme.

I would, and have, suggest that the X50 service be made clockface and extended south to St Davids every 2 hours. That would enhance the quality of the St Davids - Fishguard service and make it clockface (currently very vaugly 2-hourly). It would also provide a connection at Fishguard & Goodwick with the 2-hourly Fishguard train service, meaning everywhere between Cardigan and Fishguard on the current 412 route would get a direct link to the train station (without the extended X50 you would have to change from the 412 Cardigan - Haverfordwest bus onto the Fishguard Town Service to reach the station). That would mean Cardigan, instead of being over a hour away by bus from a viable train station would only be 46mins away from one (Haverfordwest (1hr 10mins, at the best of times), Aberystwyth (1hr 30mins) and Carmarthen (1hr 40somthing) are the main options at present).

The above suggestions have widened the catchment area for the service, but not addressed the limited choice of destonations. To do that I would extend the 2-hourly Fishguard to Cardiff via the Swansea District line, calling only at Whitland, Carmarthen and Llanelli as the present FGH service does. Connections would need to be made with the Pembroke Dock - Swansea stoppers in both directions. This would open up Cardiff as a pontential destonation, and, more importantly, cut the shortest available Carmarthen - Cardiff journey times. I fear the half-hearted proposals for a shuttle to Carmarthen would not attract enough passengers for the service to last beyond the planned review, however a direct service to Cardiff and good connections from the rest of north Pembrokeshire could be a different story. The question is, would a single 153 handle the loadings between Carmarthen and Cardiff, thanks to the 15min time saving? I've been working to the assumption that it wouldn't and suggest the service use 158s (gained from Scotrail's electrification pland or by swaping the 4-car sets on Holyhead - Birmingham with push-pull mark2 LHCS). Using 158s would, I think, allow you to add a stop at Bridgend and still save the 15mins (because bits of the line between Briton Ferry and Cardiff are faster than the 75mph limit of a 153, and a 158 can take advantage of that). I think I worked out you'd need 3 158s to do that. I wonder if you run a pair of 153s between Carmarthen and Cardiff, but only one west of Carmarthen, could you save on units? I doubt it but you'd probablly save on coaches.

Before anyone complains about missing Swansea, you would need to change to get there from the proposed shuttle anyway, so it is no real loss, and my plan gives a fast direct service to Cardiff (where the majority of connections to England can be found).
 

merlodlliw

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http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/transport/;jsessionid=hjPjNSpptLpynMvDQbCpPXpRy0DycrQTPqwng5QpVycdhXKCRhMv!-67787307?lang=en

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2007/welshasssembly_english/html/region_22.stm

I'm sure you'll agree that Carmarthanshire/ Pemrokeshire are marginal. Plaid got at 31% of the vote in Mid & West in 07 the largest individual share but there's at least 4 marginals they were involved in. Ceredigion is odd that they elect Plaid for Cardiff Bay but Lib Dem for Westminster. Plaid screamed blue murder about how much resource the Lib Dems chucked at it last year.

As I said the big £ is up on the Head of the Valleys road but the other schemes mentioned in WAG press release do have a westward bent.

Aberystwyth Hourly in the mix for election time was seen off by ERTMS being so late - its encouraged cold feet I'm afraid. I know some in Cereidgion Plaid were hoping for the announcement prior to the 2010 General Election!

I do get a whiff of politics in all of this, just like the Users Committee that was appointed, very West Wales biased. Looks like the hourly on the Cambrian will
have to wait for a few years more. "Little England in Wales" as indeed done well out of todays announcement, will Ieuan get his reward on May 5th.

Bob
 
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12CSVT

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Of the closed stations on the line (at least 4, plus probablly one or two I've forgoten) only 2 would be worth opening. These are Fishguard & Goodwick (where all trains not connecting with a ferry would terminate) and Wolfscastle (where the nearby 412 bus stop would provide passengers from Letterston, and possibly Trecwn and Scleddau). However the track would need to be moved to re-open Wolfscastle, so I think we'll have to settle for Fishguard & Goodwick for the time being.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
No news on the X50(550) (Cardigan - (Aberporth) - (New Quay) - Aberaeron - Aberystwyth) TrawsCambria services? I guess they are staying as they are. I guess that's a good thing, as I don't like the look of the bus they're sitting in there (it has seat belts, I do not like being forced by the law to wear a seat belt on a bus). Notice no East-West link (I included an Aberaeron - Brecon - Abergavenny service as one of the suggestions in my consultation responce) and no apparent end to the wasteful X40 services south of Carmarthen (why do they even exist, there's a perfectly good railway from Carmarthen to Cardiff via Swansea). Also, new buses for the X40 and 704??? Surely, as the X40 and 704 alread has 55 and 06 plate Optare Tempos the X32 (Aberystwth - Bangor) and X94 (Barmouth - Wrexham) are higher priority for new vehicles (ok, I guess extending the 704 will require some extra vehicles). I suppose the new vehicles on X40 (which I think is hourly anyway) could cascade the present Tempos onto the X94 and/or X32. I also hope they bring the legroom on the Tempo fleet up to X50 standard.

The combined Fishguard/TrawsCambria anouncement is a little disapointing. It is in my opinion a waste of a good oppertunity to make a real difference. The service, I expect, is the single 153 shuttling back and forth to Carmarthen idea, which pretty much limits the passengers you could attract to those traveling from Fishguard/Goodwick (and, at a push, on the 413 (Fishguard - St Davids) route) to Carmarthen, and (with a change) stations between there and Swansea. The bright side is that it only uses 1 additional unit and does not use any 158s, which should help ensure the WAG is able to make good on their broken promise to make the Cambrian main line hourly. I write the following assuming that the Cambrian had gone hourly by 2011 as promised, as that is a very important scheme.

I would, and have, suggest that the X50 service be made clockface and extended south to St Davids every 2 hours. That would enhance the quality of the St Davids - Fishguard service and make it clockface (currently very vaugly 2-hourly). It would also provide a connection at Fishguard & Goodwick with the 2-hourly Fishguard train service, meaning everywhere between Cardigan and Fishguard on the current 412 route would get a direct link to the train station (without the extended X50 you would have to change from the 412 Cardigan - Haverfordwest bus onto the Fishguard Town Service to reach the station). That would mean Cardigan, instead of being over a hour away by bus from a viable train station would only be 46mins away from one (Haverfordwest (1hr 10mins, at the best of times), Aberystwyth (1hr 30mins) and Carmarthen (1hr 40somthing) are the main options at present).

The above suggestions have widened the catchment area for the service, but not addressed the limited choice of destonations. To do that I would extend the 2-hourly Fishguard to Cardiff via the Swansea District line, calling only at Whitland, Carmarthen and Llanelli as the present FGH service does. Connections would need to be made with the Pembroke Dock - Swansea stoppers in both directions. This would open up Cardiff as a pontential destonation, and, more importantly, cut the shortest available Carmarthen - Cardiff journey times. I fear the half-hearted proposals for a shuttle to Carmarthen would not attract enough passengers for the service to last beyond the planned review, however a direct service to Cardiff and good connections from the rest of north Pembrokeshire could be a different story. The question is, would a single 153 handle the loadings between Carmarthen and Cardiff, thanks to the 15min time saving? I've been working to the assumption that it wouldn't and suggest the service use 158s (gained from Scotrail's electrification pland or by swaping the 4-car sets on Holyhead - Birmingham with push-pull mark2 LHCS). Using 158s would, I think, allow you to add a stop at Bridgend and still save the 15mins (because bits of the line between Briton Ferry and Cardiff are faster than the 75mph limit of a 153, and a 158 can take advantage of that). I think I worked out you'd need 3 158s to do that. I wonder if you run a pair of 153s between Carmarthen and Cardiff, but only one west of Carmarthen, could you save on units? I doubt it but you'd probablly save on coaches.

Before anyone complains about missing Swansea, you would need to change to get there from the proposed shuttle anyway, so it is no real loss, and my plan gives a fast direct service to Cardiff (where the majority of connections to England can be found).

I'd have thought it would make sense to extend to current Manchester - Carmarthen services (which are 2 hourly) to Fishguard
 

Rhydgaled

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I'd have thought it would make sense to extend to current Manchester - Carmarthen services (which are 2 hourly) to Fishguard
If you put the push-pull mark2 stock on that route (not enough 175s and 158s cannot do 100mph) then yes, it would be possible. However, that means going via Swansea, so you would say goodbye to the 15min journey time improvement between Carmarthen and Cardiff. For the same reason, I think any stations on the Swansea district line should not be called at by this service (a ValleyLines service would do the job instead).

You could divert the Manchester via the district and put a seperate service in from Cardiff to Carmarthen via Swansea if you really want, but there's not really any extra benifit in doing that (and you loose a direct Newport - Swansea service).
 

Greenback

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If you put the push-pull mark2 stock on that route (not enough 175s and 158s cannot do 100mph) then yes, it would be possible. However, that means going via Swansea, so you would say goodbye to the 15min journey time improvement between Carmarthen and Cardiff. For the same reason, I think any stations on the Swansea district line should not be called at by this service (a ValleyLines service would do the job instead).

You could divert the Manchester via the district and put a seperate service in from Cardiff to Carmarthen via Swansea if you really want, but there's not really any extra benifit in doing that (and you loose a direct Newport - Swansea service).

Not sure what you mean there! There are no stations on the SDL, unless you mean Bynea and Llangennech - and it could be argued that they are more deserving of a fast train to Cardiff than Wolfscastle!
 

Pacerpilot

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With both Carmarthen's Platforms being Permissive, I believe a Fishguard - Carmarthen shuttle would be perfectly adequate, connecting with the current Eastbound services.
 

Greenback

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I'm delighted to hear the news - a Carmarthen to Fishguard shuttle will be sufficient to test the demand for a better service.

Hopefully there will be enough usage to justify an expansion towards the sort of service Rhydgaled would like to see.
 

VideozVideoz

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Ah, some good news!


What's the situation with access and parking at Fishguard harbour, given that it's owned by Stenna? I seem to recall some public parking spaces near the ocean lab, but that's a fair walk away from the ferry terminal and platform.

Yes that's a good question, what is the situation with access and parking? I remember when I was in Goodwick last summer it didn't look like you should just be wandering into the ferry terminal for a train. Nor did it look like you should be driving in there when you weren't catchin a ferry!
 

Greenback

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I've never had any problem in walking into or out of the harbour station, whether to/from Fishguard or Goodwick.
 
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