TPE franchise to move to OLR

[Urobach]

So is life any different now TPE is "nationalised"?*
The Rail Minister thinks it's up to the unions to reinstate the rest day agreement, to bring normal services back.

MSN

www.msn.com

I'd assume Mr Merriman will be well aware as to why there's an overtime ban due to arbrogation of T's & C's by the company, despite a rest day working deal being agreed broadly similar to the old deal that ended in Dec 21.

In theory this should be relatively easy to sort, but who knows. The previous company clearly had no interest in sorting it, or perhaps couldn't.

 

[CAF397]

So is life any different now TPE is "nationalised"?*
The Rail Minister thinks it's up to the unions to reinstate the rest day agreement, to bring normal services back.

MSN

www.msn.com

* maybe a question best left to tomorrow when it has actually happened...

The transfer to DOHL happened at 0200 this morning (28th May 2023).

As for industrial relations, management have recently taken it upon themselves to go against long standing LLC agreements on daily leave, and only authorising 2 people per link per day to have daily leave where previously it was upto 6. No negotiation with the union at all.

This doesn't bode well for the future, as these same managers transfer with the company.

 

[43066]

There is a BBC iPlayer news special “Off The Rails” on iPlayer covering the TPE situation, just in case it’s of interest to anyone.

Link below:

BBC News - Off The Rails

The UK’s worst railway? Delays, cancellations & misery. The story of Transpennine Express

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Solent&Wessex]

So is life any different now TPE is "nationalised"?*
The Rail Minister thinks it's up to the unions to reinstate the rest day agreement, to bring normal services back.

MSN

www.msn.com

* maybe a question best left to tomorrow when it has actually happened...

Asked if nationalisation would improve performance, Mr Merriman said: “That will be down to the unions, because if they allow their workforce to work in the manner they were a couple of years ago – when things were nothing like as bad as they have been in recent months – then we will get the service back up and running again for the passengers.
We have a reset moment in terms of new management".

But it isn't new management so it isn't really a great big reset. Yes, the MD has changed, Yes, the owning group has changed. But everything else remains the same. All the other Directors (the ones who have been there years and were ultimately responsible for the current chaos, unlike the departing MD who was only at TPE 5 minutes) remain in post. All the senior management remain in post.

All the people who actually deal and meet with the unions remain in post.

Unless the big reset higher up forces those managers to change their long standing attitudes and ways of doing things, and changes the ideology of the Directors and Managers who were the achitects of and managed the fall towards the current fiasco, then absolutely nothing will change at all.

Ultimately it will be the same Unions reps dealing with the same Managers and Directors as before.

 

[M60lad]

Does anybody know how long it will take to rebrand everything to Trans Pennine Trains?

1> The website is still Trans Pennine Express not Trans Pennine Trains

2> Have any trains been rebranded yet?

3> Have any of the internal screens been reprogrammed yet especially the TV Screens on 185s?

4> Have any automated station announcements been changed to Trans Pennine Trains yet?

 

[InkyScrolls]

Does anybody know how long it will take to rebrand everything to Trans Pennine Trains?

1> The website is still Trans Pennine Express not Trans Pennine Trains

2> Have any trains been rebranded yet?

3> Have any of the internal screens been reprogrammed yet especially the TV Screens on 185s?

4> Have any automated station announcements been changed to Trans Pennine Trains yet?

Approximately an infinite amount of time, give or take. The branding won't be changed at all; it's only the holding company which has a different name.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Does anybody know how long it will take to rebrand everything to Trans Pennine Trains?

1> The website is still Trans Pennine Express not Trans Pennine Trains

2> Have any trains been rebranded yet?

3> Have any of the internal screens been reprogrammed yet especially the TV Screens on 185s?

4> Have any automated station announcements been changed to Trans Pennine Trains yet?

Nothing is changing - the TOC is retaining Trans Pennine Express branding. It is simply the registered company that is changing its name, this has no effect on the public visible branding.

 

[driver9000]

Does anybody know how long it will take to rebrand everything to Trans Pennine Trains?

1> The website is still Trans Pennine Express not Trans Pennine Trains

2> Have any trains been rebranded yet?

3> Have any of the internal screens been reprogrammed yet especially the TV Screens on 185s?

4> Have any automated station announcements been changed to Trans Pennine Trains yet?

The only external change you'll see is the removal of references to First Group.

 

[Carlisle]

The only external change you'll see is the removal of references to First Group.

They’re still in situ as of half an hour ago

 

[XAM2175]

They’re still in situ as of half an hour ago

I don't really think it would be reasonable to expect them to send an army of staff around their whole network on a long weekend simply to patch over references to FirstGroup.

 

[driver9000]

They’re still in situ as of half an hour ago

Give it time. They will be removed.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Give it time. They will be removed.

There's still references to Virgin on some of the pendos, it could be a long time!

 

[CAF397]

Northern staff were still wearing 'nothern by arriva' on their uniforms many months afterwards.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Northern staff were still wearing 'nothern by arriva' on their uniforms many months afterwards.

And there's many a "Northern by Arriva" covered by a obvious sticker on signs. First are probably gonna be covered the same way.

 

[Energy]

There is a BBC iPlayer news special “Off The Rails” on iPlayer covering the TPE situation, just in case it’s of interest to anyone.

Link below:

BBC News - Off The Rails

The UK’s worst railway? Delays, cancellations & misery. The story of Transpennine Express

www.bbc.co.uk

The first part is good at showing how bad TPE is though the rest is surface level at best. It failed to show:

• That negotiating with the unions is between the RDG (DfT) and unions, not FirstGroup
• The tender put out by the DfT having strange fleet requirements which only allowed:
  - Existing 185s and 350s
  - 180s, 220s, 221s or 222s should any of them no longer be needed by an existing operator (none were off lease at the time)
  - Trains similar to the existing 4 x 170s, (including a requirement for them to be only 2 cars)
  - Class 442s
  - No 14x, 15x or 17x units.
  - New build stock
• Use of P-coding (and the DfT being OK with it)
• Route cards having less stock and routes on it.

 

[InkyScrolls]

The first part is good at showing how bad TPE is though the rest is surface level at best. It failed to show:

• That negotiating with the unions is between the RDG (DfT) and unions, not FirstGroup
• The tender put out by the DfT having strange fleet requirements which only allowed:
  - Existing 185s and 350s
  - 180s, 220s, 221s or 222s should any of them no longer be needed by an existing operator (none were off lease at the time)
  - Trains similar to the existing 4 x 170s, (including a requirement for them to be only 2 cars)
  - Class 442s
  - No 14x, 15x or 17x units.
  - New build stock
• Use of P-coding (and the DfT being OK with it)
• Route cards having less stock and routes on it.

Those are some very odd fleet requirements. What was their reasoning, if one can call it that?

 

[Energy]

Those are some very odd fleet requirements. What was their reasoning, if one can call it that?

Northern and TPE tenders would have been happening at the same time, excluding the 14x and 15xs would have been to stop both TPE and Northern tenders trying to take on say the ex-Scotrail 158s.

Excluding 17xs was a poor move, allowing TPE to at least temporarily take on the ex-Scotrail 170s before passing them to Northern would have been a better way to quickly increase capacity than the mk5s. The class 442 mention is likely due to a Angel Trains proposal to reuse them with locomotives, thankfully this didn't happen.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Northern and TPE tenders would have been happening at the same time, excluding the 14x and 15xs would have been to stop both TPE and Northern tenders trying to take on say the ex-Scotrail 158s.

Excluding 17xs was a poor move, allowing TPE to at least temporarily take on the ex-Scotrail 170s before passing them to Northern would have been a better way to quickly increase capacity than the mk5s. The class 442 mention is likely due to a Angel Trains proposal to reuse them with locomotives, thankfully this didn't happen.

Interesting, thank you! What did the DfT have against 158s?

 

[Energy]

Interesting, thank you! What did the DfT have against 158s?

The DfT have nothing against the 158s, I just used it as an example for stock which both Northern and TPE bidders might have included in their tenders. The DfT will have decided that they expect them to go to Northern.

 

[InkyScrolls]

The DfT have nothing against the 158s, I just used it as an example for stock which both Northern and TPE bidders might have included in their tenders. The DfT will have decided that they expect them to go to Northern.

Ah, I understand.

 

[Confused52]

The first part is good at showing how bad TPE is though the rest is surface level at best. It failed to show:

• That negotiating with the unions is between the RDG (DfT) and unions, not FirstGroup
• The tender put out by the DfT having strange fleet requirements which only allowed:
  - Existing 185s and 350s
  - 180s, 220s, 221s or 222s should any of them no longer be needed by an existing operator (none were off lease at the time)
  - Trains similar to the existing 4 x 170s, (including a requirement for them to be only 2 cars)
  - Class 442s
  - No 14x, 15x or 17x units.
  - New build stock
• Use of P-coding (and the DfT being OK with it)
• Route cards having less stock and routes on it.

I am not sure that any of that detail matters as much as the comment by Simon Weller of Aslef saying that they would not restore RDW (and hence training) for time +50% but insisted on time +75%. It was clear that training on any new stock was not possible. Since the programme made it appear to non-insiders that the intransigence was on the union side, it didn't matter much who they were negotiating with. That was reinforced by the numerous statements that it was not clear that things would get better with the takeover by OLR, other than from Tracy Brabin who is a hopeful politician it seems.

 

[43066]

I am not sure that any of that detail matters as much as the comment by Simon Weller of Aslef saying that they would not restore RDW (and hence training) for time +50% but insisted on time +75%. It was clear that training on any new stock was not possible. Since the programme made it appear to non-insiders that the intransigence was on the union side, it didn't matter much who they were negotiating with. That was reinforced by the numerous statements that it was not clear that things would get better with the takeover by OLR, other than from Tracy Brabin who is a hopeful politician it seems.

From what’s been said they’ve actually been offered the old rate again (despite many on here predicting that would never happen!), so that isn’t the issue.

 

[Energy]

I am not sure that any of that detail matters as much as the comment by Simon Weller of Aslef saying that they would not restore RDW (and hence training) for time +50% but insisted on time +75%. It was clear that training on any new stock was not possible.

75% was the existing deal. The reduced route cards are what stopped TPE from going to mostly single 185 operation, training would have lapsed since the route cards have changed.

 

[Confused52]

From what’s been said they’ve actually been offered the old rate again (despite many on here predicting that would never happen!), so that isn’t the issue.

Do you have evidence or that or is it speculation based on statements on here that an RDW agreement has been reached and that the lack of RDW is now down to the national dispute. Not that it matters much because the programme's stance that it is down to union intransigence isn't affected by the detail of why they are now not working on Rest Days. The expectation of 75% will seem outrageous to many viewers whether Aslef got it or not.

 

[43066]

Do you have evidence or that or is it speculation based on statements on here that an RDW agreement has been reached and that the lack of RDW is now down to the national dispute.

Not directly, how could I when I don’t work there, but “speculation” based on statements on here by people who do is likely more accurate than some BBC journalist’s interpretation. As and when the national dispute is resolved they will go back to time + 75% AIUI.

The expectation of 75% will seem outrageous to many viewers whether Aslef got it or not.

How do you know? Based on your previous posts on the subject, I suspect that’s merely a statement of your own view.

If it’s what they had before it seems reasonable to ask for it again - especially during a driver shortage. Many NHS workers can earn treble time for overtime shifts, for example, so this kind of thing is hardly unique to the railway.

 

[john349uk]

Non-contractual overtime is banned by ASLEF currently on TPE, due in part to incorrect rostering and breaches of several terms and conditions. A promise from the new management that this wouldn't happen and strict adherence to drivers terms could see RDW restored sooner rather than later. Quite how many drivers would choose to work rest days with the national situation still very much unresolved is another matter.

 

[43066]

Non-contractual overtime is banned by ASLEF currently on TPE, due in part to incorrect rostering and breaches of several terms and conditions. A promise from the new management that this wouldn't happen and strict adherence to drivers terms could see RDW restored sooner rather than later. Quite how many drivers would choose to work rest days with the national situation still very much unresolved is another matter.

Certainly the sense I’m getting. What is the rate currently in the table, to your knowledge?

I understood it was back to what it was previously, but the other Ts and Cs issues are still getting in the way.

 

[Killingworth]

Not directly, how could I when I don’t work there, but “speculation” based on statements on here by people who do is likely more accurate than some BBC journalist’s interpretation. As and when the national dispute is resolved they will go back to time + 75% AIUI.

How do you know? Based on your previous posts on the subject, I suspect that’s merely a statement of your own view.

If it’s what they had before it seems reasonable to ask for it again - especially during a driver shortage. Many NHS workers can earn treble time for overtime shifts, for example, so this kind of thing is hardly unique to the railway.

On or just before 21st April I understand TPE agreed the 75% terms that ASLEF demanded and previously applied. The sticking point appears to be the detailed terms and way the shifts are organised and applied to give a reasonable work/life balance. No doubt TPE drivers could give examples of how badly they can work out in practice.

 

[john349uk]

Yes they've offered the old rate again, time and 3/4, minimum 10 hours pay

 

[43066]

On or just before 21st April I understand TPE agreed the 75% terms that ASLEF demanded and previously applied. The sticking point appears to be the detailed terms and way the shifts are organised and applied to give a reasonable work/life balance. No doubt TPE drivers could give examples of how badly they can work out in practice.

Yes they've offered the old rate again, time and 3/4, minimum10 hours pay

Great thanks.

This place is so much better than the BBC .