Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[LothianBusesPh]

The only issue I can see is that people no longer have a link to The Mound, George IV Bridge or Princes Street

Yes, but it's a 3-4 minute walk.

 

[stevenedin]

Yes, but it's a 3-4 minute walk.

For those that are able bodied it is and depending on where people are going, a lot of it is uphill.

 

[jb66]

It still hits the west end of Princes st

For those that are able bodied it is and depending on where people are going, a lot of it is uphill.

How many people need to get to the top of the mound though? What is there that people of cammo need to visit vs Lothian Road to surgeons Hall?

 

[stevenedin]

It still hits the west end of Princes st

How many people need to get to the top of the mound though? What is there that people of cammo need to visit vs Lothian Road to surgeons Hall?

There are all of the shops and restaurants up that way and George IV Bridge. I don’t see the issue for me if I was to use the new routes but maybe some people have commitments in that area and may not have good mobility.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Beyoncé seems to have kyboshed everything heading West.

1s going part route, 26s and 31s coming in groups of 3.

 

[Jordan1296]

Beyoncé seems to have kyboshed everything heading West.

1s going part route, 26s and 31s coming in groups of 3.

Service 1 has been all to pot all day. 0835 from Seafield was 10 minutes late and they were running upwards of 15 minutes by lunchtime.

 

[stevenedin]

The 43 was even affected as well 2 buses in a row due to congestion.

 

[computerSaysNo]

There were a bunch of 31s shuttling between Waterloo Place and Murrayfield even though the road was supposed to be closed the whole afternoon and evening?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Lots of 31 Services started at Waterloo Place this evening, is it because of the concert in Murrayfield?

 

[eh1]

Lots of 31 Services started at Waterloo Place this evening, is it because of the concert in Murrayfield?

These are operational spare buses. Each garage has a number placed to run duplicate services, in order to help out the normal in service buses. Control room will normally send them in front of a bus that's reported it's full or one running late in order to try clear the stops.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Have some routes had capacity increased? Have seen an XLB on the 33 and an MMC on a part-route 30 to Fort Kinnaird.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Have some routes had capacity increased? Have seen an XLB on the 33 and an MMC on a part-route 30 to Fort Kinnaird.

The Beyoncé concert at Murrayfield will be the reason for that. It’s quite normal for events to get given additional capacity before and after.

 

[jb66]

Looks a late shift for the driver of the last x18 to Bathgate, 32mins late!

 

[LothianBusesPh]

These are operational spare buses. Each garage has a number placed to run duplicate services, in order to help out the normal in service buses. Control room will normally send them in front of a bus that's reported it's full or one running late in order to try clear the stops.

I thought that's what happened! That's also why 551 was on the 45 on Friday, although it was because of diversions, not a concert!

 

[eh1]

I thought that's what happened! That's also why 551 was on the 45 on Friday, although it was because of diversions, not a concert!

I believe they now have them daily, to help out as some services with lower frequency can be hard to regulate. They can be sent on practically any route (height permitting of course for single deck) and drivers are expected to have the route knowledge required.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Do the City garages still have a separate single-deck rota for new drivers, before they then progress onto a double-deck/mixed rota? I'm sure someone mentioned this happened in the past but I'm not sure if it was upset by COVID.
If this still happens, how does it change, if at all, with the different full-time/part-time contracts?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Do the City garages still have a separate single-deck rota for new drivers, before they then progress onto a double-deck/mixed rota? I'm sure someone mentioned this happened in the past but I'm not sure if it was upset by COVID.
If this still happens, how does it change, if at all, with the different full-time/part-time contracts?

Yes, they do (for full-time drivers, unsure about part-time.)

 

[mb88]

Do the City garages still have a separate single-deck rota for new drivers, before they then progress onto a double-deck/mixed rota? I'm sure someone mentioned this happened in the past but I'm not sure if it was upset by COVID.
If this still happens, how does it change, if at all, with the different full-time/part-time contracts?

Yes, there are 4 day single deck, 5 day single deck, and double deck rotas. Along with part time, backshift and nightshift rotas. New starts go onto the 5 day single deck rotas first before progressing (if they wish) to 4 day single deck then double deck. There are numerous differences in terms and conditions between the single and double deck rotas, such as paid breaks, different maximum duty length etc.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Yes, there are 4 day single deck, 5 day single deck, and double deck rotas. Along with part time, backshift and nightshift rotas. New starts go onto the 5 day single deck rotas first before progressing (if they wish) to 4 day single deck then double deck. There are numerous differences in terms and conditions between the single and double deck rotas, such as paid breaks, different maximum duty length etc.

Thanks.
So are there not 3 day single deck?
And what variety of double deck?
I understand with shift work there's not usually a rota of only earlies, only lates, and only nights, they're just all mixed in (although drivers are free to swap among themselves as long as legal driving hours are respected), I assume it's the same at Lothian?
It's been said on here before that singles get unpaid breaks but doubles are paid, I didn't know there were more differences than that though, can you give any more detail?

 

[ChrisPJ]

So are there not 3 day single deck?

I would not want to cram a working weeks worth of hours into just 3 days.
Spreading them over 6 days sounds appealing though.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I would not want to cram a working weeks worth of hours into just 3 days.
Spreading them over 6 days sounds appealing though.

I certainly agree, but it would work for some people, e.g. parents with children may cram it into 3 days so they can spend the rest with their children?

 

[GusB]

I certainly agree, but it would work for some people, e.g. parents with children may cram it into 3 days so they can spend the rest with their children?

Eh? That's just crazy because you'd be expecting someone to be on the road for 12 hours a day (assuming a 36-hour week, and it's probably more).
Oh, and it's illegal!

Drivers' hours

Check what type of drivers' hours rules you need to follow if you drive a goods vehicle or a bus or coach.

www.gov.uk

Duty time
If you work as a driver for a company, duty time is any working time. If you’re self-employed, duty time is only time you spend driving the vehicle or doing other work related to the vehicle or its load.

Daily driving limit
You must not drive for more than 10 hours in any working day.

Breaks and continuous driving
If your working day is less than 8 hours 30 minutes, you must take a break after 5 hours 30 minutes of driving. The break must last 30 minutes or longer.

If your working day is 8 hours 30 minutes or more, you must not drive for more than 7 hours and 45 minutes. You must also take breaks that add up to at least 45 minutes.

If you work more than 8 hours 30 minutes, you must take an extra break before you finish working. The extra break must last 30 minutes or longer.

You cannot take a break immediately before the end of your shift.

Length of working day (‘spreadover’)
You must not work more than 16 hours between the times of starting and finishing work - including the times when you’re not driving.

Daily rest periods
You must take a rest of 10 hours before the first duty and immediately after the last duty in a working week.

You must take a rest of at least 10 hours between 2 working days (or spreadovers) - this can be reduced to 8.5 hours up to 3 times a week

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Eh? That's just crazy because you'd be expecting someone to be on the road for 12 hours a day (assuming a 36-hour week, and it's probably more).
Oh, and it's illegal!

Drivers' hours

Check what type of drivers' hours rules you need to follow if you drive a goods vehicle or a bus or coach.

www.gov.uk

I didn't calculate that, sorry!

 

[alexf380]

3 day week would be part-time, so only about 20 hours or so. I believe there are some part-time lines on the single deck rotas.

 

[CN04NRJ]

3 day week would be part-time, so only about 20 hours or so. I believe there are some part-time lines on the single deck rotas.

Definitely a small number of PT single deck drivers, I think they're 5 day length so roughly a 24h week.

 

[stantheman]

Anyone know if the 45 will revert to single deck next week ?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Anyone know if the 45 will revert to single deck next week ?

I’d be surprised if it didn’t revert to full single deck operation. If the rumour of 39-50 and 176-190 (27 buses) all being at Marine come Sunday is correct then that allows 6 to go on the 12 and 13 to go on the 46/48. After that 8 are still free and the 45 will only need 5 from the changes. Using them still leaves 3 out of use at one time for maintenance/spare etc.

I’m not sure what anyone else thinks but I myself don’t think the 7900’s would be suited to the 46/48 at all. Having used them in the past on the 30 they were deeply unpopular with predominantly older users of the East Lothian section of the 30. The seating layout I remember being a particularly common issue along with the silly layout of the bandit screen/ticket machine - mostly caused by the much lower driving position. I’m not saying it won’t happen, in fact I think the odd 7900 could still be a common sight on the 46/48, but I think it wouldn’t be a particularly great idea.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I would not want to cram a working weeks worth of hours into just 3 days.
Spreading them over 6 days sounds appealing though.

I certainly agree, but it would work for some people, e.g. parents with children may cram it into 3 days so they can spend the rest with their children?

3 day week would be part-time, so only about 20 hours or so. I believe there are some part-time lines on the single deck rotas.

Thanks, yes I was meaning part time.

After the upcoming service change will Central have any single deck work other than the 1?

Edited: So Longstone has the 30/36/38, Central the 1/2, and Marine the 12/45/46/48.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Thanks, yes I was meaning part time.

After the upcoming service change will Central have any single deck work other than the 1?

Edit: So Longstone would have 30/36/38, Central just the 1, and Marine the 2/12/45/46/48?

Central has the 2 from the service change.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Thanks, yes I was meaning part time.

After the upcoming service change will Central have any single deck work other than the 1?

Edit: So Longstone would have 30/36/38, Central just the 1, and Marine the 2/12/45/46/48?

Central gains the Service 2, swapping with the Service 12. The Service 2 can't stay at one depot, can it!?