Manchester Victoria then and now

[8A Rail]

I loved the old Victoria station - yes it was a bit scruffy, but it was full of character and the modern station is too small, dingy and soulless in comparison. A sympathetic reconstruction could have succeeded if the Arena had not been built.

I'm not sure if there was a wooden section on 12/13 - there definitely was on 14/15.

The Picc-Vic line is mentioned above - now, I'm a trustee director at the Museum of Transport Greater Manchester and we have a huge archive file on Picc-Vic. One of the things I do for the museum is to manage its Flickr photo page, and some months ago I enjoyed uploading a pic from our collection showing a test borehole being sunk on platform 1 at Victoria - see the pic below. Not many people appreciate that Picc-Vic was more than a paper proposal: construction actually started and we also have photos showing two fairly circumspect men being lowered in a bucket into a shaft being dug in the Fish Dock area of the station.

First, although not from the Manchester area, I do appreciate the work and effort in attempting to preserve the archive collection and especially in uploading images onto your 'Flickr' photo page - that has got to be commended, is it not possible to upload more 'railway' images considering how big the area is along with the many many various railway lines cutting through the Greater Manchester area? I am assuming also you have some material already? Looking at the Flickr site, the balance of road transport (especially buses) heavily out ways anything on train related matters (approx 20 out of 780 images), let alone anything on shipping or aircraft. I stress not being ungrateful for your time and efforts, but just attempting to highlight the issue especially when Manchester is heavily steeped in railway history. May be the MTGM organisation is actually focused on road transport rather than anything else which is there fore not much that can be done?

At least your organisation is attempting to do something for your area which is more than can be said for my local area which is also equally steeped in transport especially railway and shipping history. Thank You.

(PS: I am moderator for the 'Liverpool and Manchester Railway (L&MR line) 'Flickr' group which has a fair few images on the line in and around Manchester, see: https://www.flickr.com/groups/2914142@N21/ if interested).

 

[pokemonsuper9]

May be the MTGM organisation is actually focused on road transport rather than anything else which is there fore not much that can be done?

If you look at the first line of the description of the photo on flickr, you'll find out they are

Why has a museum that's dedicated to road passenger transport put a photo of a railway station here? Well, there's a story...

 

[8A Rail]

If you look at the first line of the description of the photo on flickr, you'll find out they are

Fair enough but that makes them not a Museum of Transport in the truest sense of the word unfortunately. May they should retitle their organisation to 'Museum of Road Transport Greater Manchester' then? No criticism, just a thought.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Fair enough but that makes them not a Museum of Transport in the truest sense of the word unfortunately. May they should retitle their organisation to 'Museum of Road Transport Greater Manchester' then? No criticism, just a thought.

I've been there in the past and it's decent, it's a lot of busses and it's pretty obvious at how little train stuff there is in there, although they have a T68 in there (of which the cab is accessible and doors can be {manually} operated) so it's not all busses, and still fun for a family.

 

[dunc695]

I loved the old Victoria station - yes it was a bit scruffy, but it was full of character and the modern station is too small, dingy and soulless in comparison. A sympathetic reconstruction could have succeeded if the Arena had not been built.

I'm not sure if there was a wooden section on 12/13 - there definitely was on 14/15.

The Picc-Vic line is mentioned above - now, I'm a trustee director at the Museum of Transport Greater Manchester and we have a huge archive file on Picc-Vic. One of the things I do for the museum is to manage its Flickr photo page, and some months ago I enjoyed uploading a pic from our collection showing a test borehole being sunk on platform 1 at Victoria - see the pic below. Not many people appreciate that Picc-Vic was more than a paper proposal: construction actually started and we also have photos showing two fairly circumspect men being lowered in a bucket into a shaft being dug in the Fish Dock area of the station.

Please click on the pic to see the full-size version and read my full caption notes, we like people to browse our photo collection.

Waiting for the train that never came by Museum of Transport Greater Manchester, on Flickr

The old station was neglected & scruffy but it had atmosphere and and a grand sense of scale it must have covered a considerable area.
I was first taken to Victoria in 1986/7 on a rail rover with my late Grandparents and the older station was still in full swing, a busy station with passenger traffic, freight, parcels, loco hauled/DMU ECS moves and everything else. I recall getting a Nottingham - Glasgow back to Oxenholme from platform 11. Some peak hour Blackpool & Southport services were still loco hauled.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I'm not sure if there was a wooden section on 12/13 - there definitely was on 14/15.

That will be what I recall then. I only had recollections of there being a wooden section somewhere, rather than recalling where it was so I guessed at 12/13.

 

[unlevel42]

Fifty years ago:
18 and beer on a Sunday.
The entrance that led down to the Boddington's brewery and the pub at the gates, filling lemonade bottles with beer
Waiting for the Bangor train somewhere on platform eleven.
"Where is the 'middle'"? "It's where you can't see an end!"
Destination signs so dirty, damaged or unattended to, as helpful as the platform staff(singular).
"Don't sit on that trolley!" 'Beep' 'Beep' from the postie aiming straight for me. "Why? Do I look like a student?"
Stench of two breweries, flashes from Bury electrics.
Didn't know trains could go uphill.
The brown tiled walk through toilet.
The wonderful refreshment room-the smell and sound of tea urns. Ham sandwich and beer. Free mustard.
Sleeping on the table of Ladies Waiting Room.
Where is London Road station? No, well it's here on my Dad's map.
So this is what a city station is.

Now:
Tamworth low level, I feel, touch hear, smell, see, taste nothing, absolutely nothing.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Cheer up, Morrissey!

 

[unlevel42]

I actually loved it - particularly the Boddingtons and playing on a 'Manchester' dart board.
It was about going places- Heysham, Stranraer, Holyhead, Oxenholme, ...out of the gloom into pastures and pastures new or a Greenfield.
I actually bought tickets to Prague there.

 

[josh-j]

Fifty years ago:

As someone who never experienced the old Victoria, I just want to say thanks for these evocative recollections

 

[Flying Phil]

My father took these slides at Man Vic in 1967.

 

[Dr Hoo]

So evocative! Remember seeing my last BR steam in Manchester that winter, even with a brazier burning next to a water column at Manchester Exchange, just next door.

At Victoria I did my signalling training on the L&Y ‘model railway’ in the offices (now in the York Museum). Such a shabby place by then.

 

[D6130]

My father took these slides at Man Vic in 1967.

Fabulously evocative photos. Thanks for posting!

 

[adamedwards]

I can't remember where this came from originally, but for those unfamiliar this is the best map I've seen of Victoria before the Arena arrived (no idea exactly what date this is from, sorry)

Love the map. If you look closely you can see a dash and dot line which shows the overhead baggage and post elevated railway which ran around the roof, a separate railway within a railway station. So it must be a pre-WW2 plan at least.

 

[dunc695]

I often wonder if the footbridge at the old Victoria ever saw passenger use or was it ever only for Parcels?

 

[Chester1]

Facilities were about the same, but the old station was vast, and it was quite the trek through that horrible subway. The old station needed to go- it was too big and too spread out and, even today, would still be too big and too spread out.

Selling the land for the arena was a sensible use. It would still be the best decision now. None of the development at that end of Manchester happens without the arena starting it off.

The only real problem with the station is the lack of ventilation, especially on platform 6, with 30 years of diesel fumes leaving their mark. Perhaps one more through platform wouldn’t go amiss, but it’s not like the place is running over-capacity even now.

ETA found a photo on Flickr (not mine- credit to “Patric Roft” ): https://www.flickr.com/photos/patric_roft/5237485183

Six through platforms would definitely help now but that is with the benefit of hindsight. The benefit would not be so much from through running but to have two additonal platforms for terminating western services. The environment could be substantially improved through transparent canopies mirroring the roof over the southern part of station. Most daylight is blocked by the station building and the arena but a substantial amount of light could still be let in. Wigan - Stalybridge electrification will remove more DMUs helping with the fumes problem.

 

[jp4712]

I often wonder if the footbridge at the old Victoria ever saw passenger use or was it ever only for Parcels?

Definitely only for parcels. Access to all platforms was via the subway that connected platform 11 with 12/13, 14/15 and 16. The bridge didn't even have stairs up to it, each platform had a parcels trolley lift. This can been seen in the background of the photo I posted on the previous page. In any case it was quite narrow, probably just enough for two big barrows to pass each other.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It was gloomy and grotty in the 1970s also, but I think it was probably things like steam-heat class 40s on the front of the train to Leeds at platform 12 or 14 that made it seem interesting. I think there was a subway between the platforms as well as a footbridge. The station facilities weren't much to write home about either. I still preferred it to the Stockport-Stalybridge option which was the alternative at the time for Poynton-Leeds, it was more interesting although Guide Bridge was pretty interesting at the time also.

When did a Poynton-Leeds service first start and when did it finish?

 

[dunc695]

Six through platforms would definitely help now but that is with the benefit of hindsight. The benefit would not be so much from through running but to have two additonal platforms for terminating western services. The environment could be substantially improved through transparent canopies mirroring the roof over the southern part of station. Most daylight is blocked by the station building and the arena but a substantial amount of light could still be let in. Wigan - Stalybridge electrification will remove more DMUs helping with the fumes problem.

I can never understand why at least one platform avoiding line wasn't factored in for freight, whilst they're not as frequent as the 1980s they're still lengthy, particularly the DRAX. Also, a vast proportion of platforms 3-6 are covered by the City Room. If this was ever relocated you could bring in a lot more light in. Trouble is the electrification equipment is fitted to the concrete base the City Room sits on so any structural alterations would require substantial disruption.

 

[jfollows]

When did a Poynton-Leeds service first start and when did it finish?

When I made a journey Poynton-Leeds, changing trains as appropriate.

 

[jp4712]

Here's the pic I mentioned earlier of two gents being lowered into a Picc-Vic shaft, it's part of a set labelled 'test boring Aug 1972'. I post it mainly because it shows the extremely rarely-photographed Fish Dock, outside the main wall of the bays. The track had been lifted by 1972 but the platform is clearly visible.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

An advantage of being 78 years of age is that until it closed in 1964, I used the Middleton to Manchester Victoria train service from 1962-1964 in my starting years at Manchester University that arrived in the middle section of the terminal bay platforms. I do recall the fish dock being situated exterior to the platform 1 station wall and I was told that in the First World War, it was used for troop embarkations. The Cheetham Hill Road bridge had a number of line access points under it.

I liked the cafe on platform 12, which sold excellant wrapped pork pies and often used the subway to platform 16, where many arrivals terminated. If no-one was looking, you could look into the ubiquitous platform 17 area, that was separated by brick partitions from platform 16.

Late evening saw platform 11 with long trains of newspaper vans which received newspapers for a wide number of destinations. I think that those vans were stored in the Red Bank siding complex.

 

[27105]

As a former TOPS clerk, always interesting to see photos of other TOPS offices and the office at Manchester Victoria (TRA 31510) being no exception -

Paperless office

Manchester Victoria TOPS office in the old clock tower on platforms 12 & 13. 02/1990

www.flickr.com

Mark

 

[Ken H]

As a former TOPS clerk, always interesting to see photos of other TOPS offices and the office at Manchester Victoria (TRA 31510) being no exception -

Paperless office

Manchester Victoria TOPS office in the old clock tower on platforms 12 & 13. 02/1990

www.flickr.com

Mark

Love the old VDU and printer. And phones!

 

[Revaulx]

I have no idea why people on here seem to have disliked the subway so much. Like the rest of the station it was rather shabby, but it was very wide, reasonably well lit and not at all claustrophobic. The gentle slope at the concourse end was particularly user-friendly.

The bridge that replaced it is an ergonomic disaster, with far more steps than the subway and a hopelessly confusing layout.

Those who struggled with the Victoria subway would not have been able to cope with the one at Leeds prior to the last rebuild. Now that really was oppressive!

 

[Andy873]

I travelled many times to and from Manchester Victoria and what I will say to its credit is the old L&Y route map just inside the main entrance, stood and looked at it many times.

 

[nw1]

I think both iterations of it are grim.

That said, the current station seemed quite futuristic (in terms of the platform area) in the 90s. I think it getting so busy and it being left to get dirty has downgraded it, plus it was better before the Arena bridge and gateline which cause a claustrophobic feel.

Which version existed at the end of 1997? This was, IIRC, my one and only visit to Victoria, having taken a 153 or Pacer (can't remember which, but one of the two) back from Entwistle after walking across the moors from Blackrod.

I remember it seemed quite "old" in style then, so presumably that was still the old version. Certainly didn't seem futuristic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which version existed at the end of 1997? This was, IIRC, my one and only visit to Victoria, having taken a 153 or Pacer (can't remember which, but one of the two) back from Entwistle after walking across the moors from Blackrod.

I remember it seemed quite "old" in style then, so presumably that was still the old version. Certainly didn't seem futuristic.

The new version, the Arena opened well before that. Quite possibly its heyday in terms of "feel" - the concrete bit felt very modern and the concourse didn't have all the clutter of the Arena bridge and the gateline with all the advertising above it (removing that would be a massive quick win, it's oppressive).

It's since had the roof replaced, of course, but to me that never made *that* much difference, and the new roof is a cheap and nasty blow up plastic thing that to me looks rubbish.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2023 ==

This:

Concourse, Manchester Victoria Station Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: Concourse, Manchester Victoria Station - D9NAJD from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

is what it looked like around 1997 - classic concourse (much more spacious without the Arena bridge and gateline) and the platforms themselves were quite modern-looking (and still clean back then) bare concrete.

 

[jfollows]

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena) says the Arena opened 15 July 1995

 

[nw1]

The new version, the Arena opened well before that. Quite possibly its heyday in terms of "feel" - the concrete bit felt very modern and the concourse didn't have all the clutter of the Arena bridge and the gateline with all the advertising above it (removing that would be a massive quick win, it's oppressive).

It's since had the roof replaced, of course, but to me that never made *that* much difference, and the new roof is a cheap and nasty blow up plastic thing that to me looks rubbish.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2023 ==

This:

Concourse, Manchester Victoria Station Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: Concourse, Manchester Victoria Station - D9NAJD from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

is what it looked like around 1997 - classic concourse (much more spacious without the Arena bridge and gateline) and the platforms themselves were quite modern-looking (and still clean back then) bare concrete.

Ah ok, interesting - thanks. I swear it seemed a bit old and run down but maybe it was the quietness of the station which gave that impression. At the time I think it was only served by an hourly Clitheroe, half-hourly services on the Oldham loop (hourly in each direction), the Huddersfield stopper and the Leeds via Hebden Bridge. Possible I've missed something though.